Su-27 Open-Beta chit-chat and first impressions!

[theropod]

Is really this aircraft so unstable?

 

It's like su 27 became another aircraft in this game...

 

su-27 is stable for me and i think there is no need a major fix only minor fixes will correct problems i guess.

 

need high g damage for example:)

maybe this is major probem:)

[sport02]

yes stable ,

as all aircrafts this one move in the air and is not on a railroad like before this PFM .

very impressive for me , and the cobra is Whoa !!! a big moment in sim for me

Edited November 12, 2014 by sport02

[Weta43]

Is really this aircraft so unstable?

 

It's like su 27 became another aircraft in this game...

You just have to trim for every change in flight regime - so a lot :) , and be mindful of what you're doing..

 

Once you get used to trimming as you go, it is a joy to fly - and as long as you don't lose concentration and get yourself in a hole - stable :).

 

Maybe a good comparison is a 70's Porsche 911 - a good driver can make them go very fast, but compared to more conventional front engine rear wheel drive cars they're unforgiving - if you make a mistake in a corner, you can very quickly end up in a bad place..

Edited November 12, 2014 by Weta43

[IonicRipper]

The new flight model, although difficult to control, seems absolutely incredible!

 

Looking forward to mastering this plane once again.

[Nedum]

Is really this aircraft so unstable?

 

It's like su 27 became another aircraft in this game...

 

I flew the Dora and thought "wow what a bitch" but now I flew the Su27 and I think the Dora is the more stable air craft in any situation.

If the Su27 is such a bitch in RL all Su27 Pilots are heros only for flying this "modern" aircraft! :worthy:

[Thumper1606688436]

I don't know what all the bitching about this flight model is referencing. I can't imagine what maneuver you guys are trying to pull in order to get flame outs and inverted spins. I've spent less than an hour in this aircraft and have been pulling cobra after cobra with no death spins not once. I even managed to rip my wing tip off by a hill while autopilot was engaged during one of the training missions and the plane literally landed itself.

 

If you own a Warthog stick you only have to assign the trim to the trim button and flick it a couple times every now and then to get the plane in balance.

 

I think some of you pilots don't comprehend the operational speeds of each airframe. I mean would you think about taking a sharp turn in your car at 90 mph?

 

If you pull a Cobra you can expect to instantly lose 200kph so you need to think about what your starting speed is and what it's going to end up being. Pull at 400kph or less and your going to run out of air speed to keep the plane airborne. Trying above the speed of sound and you're going to quickly end up in a world of hurt.

Edited November 12, 2014 by "Thumper"

[Nedum]

I don't know what all the bitching about this flight model is referencing. I can't imagine what maneuver you guys are trying to pull in order to get flame outs and inverted spins. I've spent less than an hour in this aircraft and have been pulling cobra after cobra with no death spins not once. I even managed to rip my wing tip off by a hill while autopilot was engaged during one of the training missions and the plane literally landed itself.

 

If you own a Warthog stick you only have to assign the trim to the trim button and flick it a couple times every now and then to get the plane in balance.

 

I think some of you pilots don't comprehend the operational speeds of each airframe. I mean would you think about taking a sharp turn in your car at 90 mph?

 

If you pull a Cobra you can expect to instantly lose 200kph so you need to think about what your starting speed is and what it's going to end up being. Pull at 400kph or less and your going to run out of air speed to keep the plane airborne. Trying above the speed of sound and you're going to quickly end up in a world of hurt.

 

All you said is not new or a special thing.

We test this FM and you perhaps not as intensiv.. that's the whole explanation why we get in situation you never had.

If you have not found one bug, you should begin to test this release! ;)

[Stealth_HR]

For now, when a departure occurs, the Su-27 can easily enter into an inverted deep stall with constant AOA and no yaw rate. (Yeah, below 300kph.) Some says that it is irrecoverable.

 

Haven't tried the pitch rock technique like in F-16. Maybe it will work I bet.

 

I tried the pendulum technique, it works about 50% of the time. Some also reported extending the flaps helped.

[sport02]

yes sometimes irrecoverable and sometimes not , I like this difficulty , and I like when the engines could restart .

for somebody who have doutes , forget the precedent fm .

one exemple : could you believe that the landing was realistic before ?

Edited November 12, 2014 by sport02

[Thumper1606688436]

The only thing I see people proving is YES, it is possible to crash the plane when doing something stupid.

 

The only "bug" I have seen reported so far that needs attention is the massive over G not killing either you or the airframe.

[dartuil]

I flew the Dora and thought "wow what a bitch" but now I flew the Su27 and I think the Dora is the more stable air craft in any situation.

If the Su27 is such a bitch in RL all Su27 Pilots are heros only for flying this "modern" aircraft! :worthy:

 

I said the same.:)

[mvsgas]

For now, when a departure occurs, the Su-27 can easily enter into an inverted deep stall with constant AOA and no yaw rate. (Yeah, below 300kph.) Some says that it is irrecoverable.

 

Haven't tried the pitch rock technique like in F-16. Maybe it will work I bet.

 

I tried the F-16 technique but could not bring the aircraft back in control. The lack of Manuel pitch override switch probably did not help. I tried activating different modes of the autopilot and that did not work. Still trying to find a proper way...Is it on the FC3 manual or in the SU-27sk manual?

[smnwrx]

I tried the F-16 technique but could not bring the aircraft back in control. The lack of Manuel pitch override switch probably did not help. I tried activating different modes of the autopilot and that did not work. Still trying to find a proper way...Is it on the FC3 manual or in the SU-27sk manual?

 

I have been practicing deep stall recoveries all night. I seem to be having the best luck using idle, full aft stick and and rudder in the same direction I am spinning. It's not tried and true but it has helped for sure. It seems the su-27 it pretty unstable on the yaw axis, Dutch rolls everywhere. Since I have never flew one in RL I am not sure how realistic this is. Other then that I am loving this plane more and mor, never been a fan of anything that isn't western. Once I figure out how far I can push the FCS override gonna be good times for sure. Thanks ED

Edited November 13, 2014 by smnwrx

[GGTharos]

LOL @manual pitch override and other falcon terms :)

 

Fair try, but 'S' 'overrides' EVERYTHING. You get complete authority over the control surface deflections when you go to direct control mode.

 

I tried the F-16 technique but could not bring the aircraft back in control. The lack of Manuel pitch override switch probably did not help. I tried activating different modes of the autopilot and that did not work. Still trying to find a proper way...Is it on the FC3 manual or in the SU-27sk manual?

[mvsgas]

LOL @manual pitch override and other falcon terms :)

 

Fair try, but 'S' 'overrides' EVERYTHING. You get complete authority over the control surface deflections when you go to direct control mode.

 

I know, I do not know the term or if the SU-27 has a similar system. Now, since I don't know what are the procedures for the SU-27, that is why I tried that. What are the procedures on the SU-27 for deep stall recovery?

 

I can't remember what book I was reading that was describing the different engineering methods used to try to help this type of aircraft out of deep stall. (F-18/16, Mig-29 and SU-27) The books was stating how in the F-18, moving the vertical fins to the way they are. In the SU-27/ Mig-29, the vertical tails where moved to the very edge of the airframe and the F-16 had the MPO.

 

The MPO in the F-16, in simple terms, allows the horizontal stabs to travel full down ( we check this with the pilots during launch checks). It only visually affect pitch down on the Stabs. The reason it does this is because the F-16, during deep stall tents to oscillate up and down. So when the aircraft does this, the pilots reaches over, holding the MPO switch and attempts to help the aircraft oscillate out of the deep stall ( there is more technical things that happen but, this is a sum up, which is a good excuse so I don't have to pretend to know how it all works in detail :D)

[mvsgas]

If I understand correctly, according to the SU-27SK manual( para 4.11.2), you just got to set controls to neutral. Having trouble understand it, I use a different Spanish.

 

Edit

Inverted departures, you are suppose to pull on the stick until the nose drops, but at or below 3k meters, eject.

 

Edit of the edit

So far and due the lack of knowledge of a better source material, the SU-27SK manual has been helping a lot. For deep stall recovery, (even inverted ones) and departure recoveries seem to be describe properly regarding FC3. As long as you recognize the departure right away and perform the recommended action in the SK manual it seems to be working.

 

Mirmidón y los muchachos de el Escuadrón Cruz de San Andrés, gracias and obviously thanks to the ED guys for all your work.

Edited November 13, 2014 by mvsgas

[GGTharos]

Good work :)

[Mule]

ah ok Thanks! it dawned on me that it could be the limiter after I posted lol

 

Of course it did :thumbup:

[dartuil]

Will the su-27 cockpit get update?

http://www.natenow.com/news/sukhoi-su-27-cockpit

I mean like this?

[Esac_mirmidon]

This is a Su-27SM cockpit.

 

The Flanker we have in DCS is a previous version, the Su-27S.

 

Another thing about spins and stalls.

 

The Su-27SK manual said about inverted departures and stall:

 

You can enter in a inverted departure because low speed in inverted flight, because speed loose flying in vertical or near vertical, because creating negative G and pushing the stick all the way forward at speeds below 300 km/h.

 

Inverted departure recovery maneuver:

 

Set RPM slowly to Idle. Stick all the way after, roll and yaw neutral. When the plane stops rotating and the nose start to fall below the horizont, set the stick to neutral in pitch, accelerate to 300 km/h and make a half roll without tresspasing maximum AoA.

 

PD: This explains why when i´m trying to make a vertical tail slide from 0 speed i always enter in a inverted departure. Another thing is the inverted recovery manuever don´t work very often, maybe because i start the vertical tail slide too low or maybe i´m doing something wrong.

[GGTharos]

No. The simulated aircraft is Su-27S, not SM/SMK etc.

 

Will the su-27 cockpit get update?

http://www.natenow.com/news/sukhoi-su-27-cockpit

I mean like this?

[mvsgas]

This is a Su-27SM cockpit.

 

The Flanker we have in DCS is a previous version, the Su-27S.

 

Another thing about spins and stalls.

 

The Su-27SK manual said about inverted departures and stall:

 

You can enter in a inverted departure because low speed in inverted flight, because speed loose flying in vertical or near vertical, because creating negative G and pushing the stick all the way forward at speeds below 300 km/h.

 

Inverted departure recovery maneuver:

 

Set RPM slowly to Idle. Stick all the way after, roll and yaw neutral. When the plane stops rotating and the nose start to fall below the horizont, set the stick to neutral in pitch, accelerate to 300 km/h and make a half roll without tresspasing maximum AoA.

 

PD: This explains why when i´m trying to make a vertical tail slide from 0 speed i always enter in a inverted departure. Another thing is the inverted recovery manuever don´t work very often, maybe because i start the vertical tail slide too low or maybe i´m doing something wrong.

 

I haven't tried that many times but for me, the moment I start seeing the nose pitch down ( it seems to be a small, short pause fallowed by a fast pitch movement) I bury the stick aft then center when pitch movement slowed down. It took a cycle or two and the nose started to stay down and I regain speed. Then recovered. If I wait to long and the aircraft managed to stay completely inverted, and stated to sink, I could not recover. Additionally I only tried at or above 5k meters, no weapons and only 56% fuel, initially.

Edited November 14, 2014 by mvsgas

[dartuil]

Can you please explain me how to trim the SU-27?

I have trouble with this plane it need constant trim.

Thank you.

[leapingrodent]

it need constant trim.

 

That's how it's supposed to be.

[beaupower32]

Can you please explain me how to trim the SU-27?

I have trouble with this plane it need constant trim.

Thank you.

 

Quite a few post and threads about it, even this one. Just look around and you might find what you need. Don't give up though, its a great plane to fly.

Edited November 13, 2014 by beaupower32