Su-27 Open-Beta chit-chat and first impressions!

[GGTharos]

What about the stalls appears scripted? Hard to tell what you're experiencing without a video.

 

I'm a bit disappointed, looking at the replies apparently no one else still has SFM. My Flanker is definitely still SFM for whatever reason, I get scripted stalls. I have the new HDD and physics set to sim mode.

 

Is the PFM Flanker only in the stand alone version for now?

[Exorcet]

I can't exceed a certain AoA. I also have instant yaw inputs with minimal roll at all speeds I've tried to fly at. I can go make a track now.

 

EDIT track attached. I fly up and let speed fall until I stall. I pull back on the stick all the way, when I hit the AoA limit the plane magically freezes its orientation until the AoA can fall below the limit.

Strange Flanker.trk

Edited November 7, 2014 by Exorcet

[USARStarkey]

I can't exceed a certain AoA. I also have instant yaw inputs with minimal roll at all speeds I've tried to fly at. I can go make a track now.

 

That is the CAS system. It wont let you exceed max AoA unless you press S.

[Exorcet]

That is the CAS system. It wont let you exceed max AoA unless you press S.

It doesn't look like anything is controlling my flight surfaces. I hit the limit with my tail still fully deflected, and the stop in rotation is instant (there are also small stutters at the limit). It's basically exactly like stalling in the SFM model. I'm pretty sure something in my update did not work correctly.

 

I also wonder if it will even appear in the track, since if someone plays it with a PFM Flanker, it will probably produce a completely different result. I'd upload to youtube but I don't have a way of recording right now. Maybe I'll go get the FRAPS demo quick.

[GGTharos]

Press S and let us know what happens ;)

 

If you really want to see the difference between SFM and PFM, don't do it with the most violent maneuvers possible ... instead try simple things:

 

- Slow down and let AoA increase ... and increase, but steady it at points of interest. Watch what happens. At some point, go to direct control (S) but remember to keep flying steady. Not always easy in direct control though.

- Try kicking some asymmetric thrust. See how the nose behaves.

 

etc.

Edited November 7, 2014 by GGTharos

[USARStarkey]

Update to speeds.

 

SL: evenly matched. Flanker can outrun eagle if starting with full fuel, until it gets down to about 70% at which point it starts to fall behind. In tests the Eagle out paced the Flanker and the Flanker could not make up the difference before decreasing stability due to fuel loss caused a reduction in top speed.

 

10k: Eagle somewhat faster to much faster at all fuel loads.

 

20k: Flanker faster by about 100 knots regardless of fuel state.

 

26k: Flanker faster until fuel loss causes speed loss.

 

35k: Eagle faster by about 100knots.

 

40k: Eagle Generally faster. If max loaded at 40k, flanker can briefly hit 1506knots. Eagle always tops out at 1474knots. If not starting at max fuel, Flanker can accelerate to 1460knots, and then starts to lose speed once down to about 40-30% fuel.

[Exorcet]

Press S and let us know what happens ;)

 

If you really want to see the difference between SFM and PFM, don't do it with the most violent maneuvers possible ... instead try simple things:

 

- Slow down and let AoA increase ... and increase, but steady it at points of interest. Watch what happens. At some point, go to direct control (S) but remember to keep flying steady. Not always easy in direct control though.

- Try kicking some asymmetric thrust. See how the nose behaves.

 

etc.

OK I'll try S. In the mean time I got Fraps and recorded

 

 

Second thing I tried after seeing strange stall behavior was just playing with the rudders and they had the same inertialess response as SFM.

 

I'll do more testing though.

 

 

 

EDIT

 

S key definitely changed the response, but I still think something isn't right. How can the AoA limiter hold the plane so perfectly and quickly without additional control deflection (see video)?

 

 

EDIT 2

 

Shut down right engine, get yaw, but barely any roll.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Exorcet

[GGTharos]

The rudders are limited in deflection IIRC, but really, try throwing the rudder around and see if it changes your heading as fast as SFM ... not to mention watch the roll coupling with it.

 

I see what you mean in the video, that seems like an odd spot. Does it happen if you do not put flaps down?

[Exorcet]

The rudders are limited in deflection IIRC, but really, try throwing the rudder around and see if it changes your heading as fast as SFM ... not to mention watch the roll coupling with it.

 

I see what you mean in the video, that seems like an odd spot. Does it happen if you do not put flaps down?

 

I wasn't touching flaps, they're automatic aren't they? At least at that speed/AoA. Can you lock them in the up position?

 

EDIT

 

My plane is 100% SFM, unless the landing gear is bugged. I tried to land on dirt and the gear went through the ground. The whole plane exploded when the fuselage struck the ground.

 

On top of that, my Corba is scripted. I can do it in any orientation at any speed under 300 knots and fly in almost a straight line.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Exorcet

[Exorcet]

Can someone with the PFM model try to play my track and see if it matches the video? That should basically confirm everything.

 

I'm also uploading another video showing the scripted Cobras and SFM landing/damage model.

 

Edited November 7, 2014 by Exorcet

[GGTharos]

Ok, try repair/update again.

[Exorcet]

Ok, try repair/update again.

OK, will do. It's most likely a problem on my end since no one else is reporting it.

 

EDIT

 

No luck, I tried repair twice and it's still SFM.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Exorcet

[GGTharos]

That is very strange :(

[Sceptre]

OK, will do. It's most likely a problem on my end since no one else is reporting it.

 

EDIT

 

No luck, I tried repair twice and it's still SFM.

 

I have the same problem, the plane still has SFM but I have the updated radar. I think I will just wait until it comes into DCS World, I haven't used Open Beta before, and not sure how to completely work it.

[marcoacv]

Su-27

 

Today I did several tests with the new 27 and unfortunately I was very disappointed. Me and three friends all in the same server. We all found several problems with the trimmer, toppling the right and left wings like crazy and every curve drawn to the rudders are moving alone. Problems with the autopilot.Why in the datasheet of the plane tells mach 2.5 and altitude of 18,500 is so hard to achieve these numbers in DCS World? By the way i have a logitech G940 and the ffb is still very bad.

I follow this simulator since 2005, always liked, but sometime things are not going very well. I hope that the next updates of the Mig-29 and Su-33 ED personnel do not ruin most things as they are now.

[ThorBrasil]

Today I did several tests with the new 27 and unfortunately I was very disappointed. Me and three friends all in the same server. We all found several problems with the trimmer, toppling the right and left wings like crazy and every curve drawn to the rudders are moving alone. Problems with the autopilot.Why in the datasheet of the plane tells mach 2.5 and altitude of 18,500 is so hard to achieve these numbers in DCS World? By the way i have a logitech G940 and the ffb is still very bad.

I follow this simulator since 2005, always liked, but sometime things are not going very well. I hope that the next updates of the Mig-29 and Su-33 ED personnel do not ruin most things as they are now.

+1

[GGTharos]

The datasheet only tells you a couple of numbers, it doesn't tell you how to get there.

Extreme performance requires knowledge and technique to achieve in any aircraft.

 

What are the problems with the trimmer, and what's the problem with the rudder?

 

Today I did several tests with the new 27 and unfortunately I was very disappointed. Me and three friends all in the same server. We all found several problems with the trimmer, toppling the right and left wings like crazy and every curve drawn to the rudders are moving alone. Problems with the autopilot.Why in the datasheet of the plane tells mach 2.5 and altitude of 18,500 is so hard to achieve these numbers in DCS World? By the way i have a logitech G940 and the ffb is still very bad.

I follow this simulator since 2005, always liked, but sometime things are not going very well. I hope that the next updates of the Mig-29 and Su-33 ED personnel do not ruin most things as they are now.

[NineLine]

OK, will do. It's most likely a problem on my end since no one else is reporting it.

 

EDIT

 

No luck, I tried repair twice and it's still SFM.

 

Can you try removing that module all together and having DCS reload it?

 

You may have to do a complete reinstall of your Open Beta?

[USARStarkey]

Today I did several tests with the new 27 and unfortunately I was very disappointed. Me and three friends all in the same server. We all found several problems with the trimmer, toppling the right and left wings like crazy and every curve drawn to the rudders are moving alone. Problems with the autopilot.Why in the datasheet of the plane tells mach 2.5 and altitude of 18,500 is so hard to achieve these numbers in DCS World? By the way i have a logitech G940 and the ffb is still very bad.

I follow this simulator since 2005, always liked, but sometime things are not going very well. I hope that the next updates of the Mig-29 and Su-33 ED personnel do not ruin most things as they are now.

 

The plane can get to mach 2.5. However it it fuel dependent. At 40k your practical top speed varies because as fuel load decreases the aircraft becomes very unstable and micro oscillations occur. Assuming you burned fuel getting to altitude, and did not spawn at 40k, and accounting for fuel needed to accelerate, your top speed is going to be less than 1460knots. The Flanker is very fuel hungry as well, so chances are it will be alot less than that.

[F31x]

Did I miss somethinmgs for the engines Start up? The keys which are assigned by default are right shift + Home to start the engines, but when I press them, there doesnt happen anythings? No chance to start the engines...so thats why I am asking whether I missed any note about that!?

 

What I really really like is that the SU-27 has a Pilotbody...awesome:thumbup:

 

Well you have to start both enginges single - first press RShit + L first for Electric Power, then RCtrl + Home for the left engine and RAlt + Home for the left engine.

 

Normally you are right, RShift + Home should normally work, maybe it is a bug?!

[Weta43]

The plane can get to mach 2.5. However it it fuel dependent. At 40k your practical top speed varies because as fuel load decreases the aircraft becomes very unstable and micro oscillations occur. Assuming you burned fuel getting to altitude, and did not spawn at 40k, and accounting for fuel needed to accelerate, your top speed is going to be less than 1460knots. The Flanker is very fuel hungry as well, so chances are it will be alot less than that.

 

 

 

Hi,

I read your post and didn't feel it fitted with my experience.

Just took off with a full load of fuel, climbed to 18000m and levelled out.

With as much fuel as I had when I levelled out, full AB, M2.3

As the fuel load dropped, the plane accelerated, till when the lights went out, the final speed was just shy of M2.6, which was 1479 knots.

[*Rage*]

THe max IAS for Direct Link transition is 600 kph. AS the plane has artificial longitudinal stability system that requires pulling the stick as IAS grows, Direct Link operates near zero point, so as you stomp S button be ready to pull the stick as a mongoose.

 

Thanks Yo-Yo.

 

Is there still an issue with easy black outs with negative pitch or negative G? It also seems very easy to flame out the engines with maneuvers like that. Im finding it very difficult to recover from the stall. obviously its a beta is that still wip?

Edited November 7, 2014 by ///Rage

[Weta43]

Does it seem that (as with the Su-25) with negative G it will take longer for the engines to flame out at 80% than at full AB ?

[*Rage*]

Does it seem that (as with the Su-25) with negative G it will take longer for the engines to flame out at 80% than at full AB ?

 

Not experimented that much yet. Supposed to be at work! I thought modern engines didn't flame out that quickly in negative g environments.

[Corvus]

Landing in Su-27 is far easier than i thought it will be:) Except some problems with keeping wings leveled my olny problem was going a bit too fast.

As for cobra- few tries and it still looks like death wish maneuver done by me:)

 

ni1HnPO-UWE[/Youtube]