Su-27 Open-Beta chit-chat and first impressions!

[GGTharos]

Same thing for the F-15 ... NASA has flown theirs to M2.69 in one of their experiments, and someone just told me they've got the FC3 eagle with PFM up to M2.6. So I think we're good.

[Kwiatek]

I dont dont but for me Su-27 behave strangly in the air. Trim not work for me ( both system), it is very unstable in flight comparing to F-15, got much worse stall and spin characteristic.

 

Also there is very strange behaviout with hard push stick - plane imidietly go on back.

 

Also negative G redout is very quickly and pilot got blackout.

 

For me these new FM for Su-27 is very strange.

 

F-15 fly for me much more stable and smoother.

[JulienBlanc]

The Su-27 in my honest opinion has so far the most interesting and complex flight model.

I love it!

If you fly her well, she'll perform miraculously well, though as soon as you get yourself in a difficult position I.E. stalls mixed with loss of control or engine shut-off it's REALLY hard to get out of if you're not flying at appropriate altitudes.

Enforcing realism!

More than delighted with the results.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

Is it me or did I notice significant changes in the damage model as well?

Got hit by 120C, in a single player mission, some shrapnel hit my nose, air brake broke off, few holes here & there,

and it actually felt like it flew accordingly

Edited November 6, 2014 by JulienBlanc

[King_Hrothgar]

Ground handling is much more believable, no more magical instant turning ability. It's much more inline with the newer FM's.

 

In the air it flies like a plane to me. Can't comment on specific performance figures but it feels believable. I too have noticed it likes to pitch up hard the instant you retract the gears. I thought it was FBW and thus should negate that, but perhaps not. I remember reading some of the Russian birds use only partial FBW but can't remember which used full and which did partial. For a non-FBW plane, it does everything I'd expect. It trims out nicely once over 800km/h and isn't difficult to keep trimmed, though some adjustments are needed as speed and altitude change.

 

Flight with direct control is interesting. I can't say much more about it without a bit more practice. But I do get the impression we'll be seeing some impressive trick shot vids in the future. In my limited time with it, I did notice you can flame out the engines while doing things you probably shouldn't.

[GGTharos]

It does use FBW, but I think right now Yo-Yo is the only one who knows the details of it ... maybe Frogfoot too. I could be wrong :)

[karambiatos]

so will we get the loud clanking noise when we trim, like in this video?

[Yo-Yo]

It does use FBW, but I think right now Yo-Yo is the only one who knows the details of it ... maybe Frogfoot too. I could be wrong :)

 

Though it uses a kind of FBW, the main principles are different from F-15. THe system has artificial "stability" imitator requiring constant stick retrimming on speed to make the plane more similar to conventional stable planes without FBW. So, it resembles more Su-25 than F-15 in longitudinal channel.

[SilentGun]

Can anyone share some vids and pics?

[USARStarkey]

Same thing for the F-15 ... NASA has flown theirs to M2.69 in one of their experiments, and someone just told me they've got the FC3 eagle with PFM up to M2.6. So I think we're good.

 

I cannot see how that was accomplished. Ive tested many times even before the flanker PFM and top speed is about 1474knots every time. The proof exists on the F-15C main page though, where the performance charts are posted.

[USARStarkey]

Your sources are not accurate. 1.2 M at sea level at least. Clean Su-27 at high altitude has its envelope cut with directed limits - not energy limits. 2.35 M is not a physical limit but Mach heating and stability factors limit.

 

So having done more testing I have noticed the following: I can only achieve the aforementioned speed if I start at 40k with a full tank of gas. An impossibility in real life since I have somehow climbed to altitude without using any fuel. Once I accelerate, I can briefly achieve 1506 knots before the plane rapidly decelerates once it reaches a certain fuel point at about 75% fuel. I have found that starting at any fuel load of 75% or less results in top speeds of 1460 knots or whereabouts. Is this the instability you are referring to?

Edited November 6, 2014 by USARStarkey

[Rykane]

This thing is hard to fly, which is great as the previous version was too easy to fly. I've tried doing a cobra but usually end up in a inverted flat spin. I have tried formation online with someone and it's much harder now, I seem to be either going too fast or too slow as if the throttle is delayed slightly which means I overshoot lead or I'm too slow. I'm not sure if that's either a bug or realistic. I might just have to get used to it.

 

Anyway, It's a fantastic feeling flying this bird. Great work ED.

[MemphisBelle]

Did I miss somethinmgs for the engines Start up? The keys which are assigned by default are right shift + Home to start the engines, but when I press them, there doesnt happen anythings? No chance to start the engines...so thats why I am asking whether I missed any note about that!?

 

What I really really like is that the SU-27 has a Pilotbody...awesome:thumbup:

Edited November 6, 2014 by MemphisBelle

[Yo-Yo]

This thing is hard to fly, which is great as the previous version was too easy to fly. I've tried doing a cobra but usually end up in a inverted flat spin. I have tried formation online with someone and it's much harder now, I seem to be either going too fast or too slow as if the throttle is delayed slightly which means I overshoot lead or I'm too slow. I'm not sure if that's either a bug or realistic. I might just have to get used to it.

 

Anyway, It's a fantastic feeling flying this bird. Great work ED.

 

S key works as a toggle. Press it, pull the stick and then as the plane begins to recover press S again to turn FBW system again.

[Rogue Trooper]

Very nice flight model, agile and fast.

Well done ED

[golani79]

I already had a great time with it today - like it very much and although it´s not the easiest to fly I´ve managed to do a few cobras and some other stuff.

But I got into a few horrible situations as well from which I wasn´t able to recover :D

 

Sometimes it happened that I ended up heads down - no chance of getting the nose back down or rolling over again.

Not sure though what got me into this situation in the first time and if there are counter measures - does anyone know this situation and has some advice?

[MemphisBelle]

how do you actually download it? DCS Updater exe does not detect an available update, i ran the DCS repair and made sure my game not broken.....

 

you need to download the open beta: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/downloads/world/dcs_world_open_beta/

after it has been installed it will move all needed files from your current DCS World installation into the new OB Directories. Provide enough HD space, OB eats roundabout 16GB and I dont even have all Modules

[SilentGun]

you need to download the open beta: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/downloads/world/dcs_world_open_beta/

after it has been installed it will move all needed files from your current DCS World installation into the new OB Directories. Provide enough HD space, OB eats roundabout 16GB and I dont even have all Modules

 

Do you need separate keys for products and do you need to install all modules again?

[MemphisBelle]

Do you need separate keys for products and do you need to install all modules again?

 

No, no seperate keys as you already own the Modules and yes, you need to install them all again. Once DCS World 1.2.11 has been installed and launched the first time, you need to go to the Module Manager and just press OK on the window that indicates the Modules that can be installed...the whole process is more or less automated...very easy and very userfriendly

[Kwiatek]

Im new with FC in DCS ( before i tried FC 2.0 and earlier version) but when i tried new F-15 comparing to new Su27 i think F-15 fly much more beliveable to me then Su27. F-15 react as i expect from such plane and i think it have very good flight model.

 

But Su27?

 

Negative pitch in Su27 made crazy things with plane, not possible to do in F-15. F-15 stall with negative pitch but in natural way, Su27 with negaitve pitch just suddelny move to on its back react very strange.

 

Also trimms for me dont do not any notiacble job. The same with alternative timm - with button3 on joy - dont make any change in trimm - i press and hold button move stick then off button - not any noticable change for me ( i got FF stick).

 

I think old Mig29 behave more beliveable to me then new Su27.

[Rykane]

Did I miss somethinmgs for the engines Start up? The keys which are assigned by default are right shift + Home to start the engines, but when I press them, there doesnt happen anythings? No chance to start the engines...so thats why I am asking whether I missed any note about that!?

 

What I really really like is that the SU-27 has a Pilotbody...awesome:thumbup:

 

Try RSHIFT + L to turn on the electronics for the aircraft if you haven't already.

[McBlemmen]

I love the new engine sounds.. dont know how long they may have already been there since i dont fly this thing often... but great. My rear landing gear refuses to go up though

[MemphisBelle]

Try RSHIFT + L to turn on the electronics for the aircraft if you haven't already.

 

I figured that starting both engines at once (right Shift + Home) doesnt work (may be due to lack of electric power as you said), but when I start the engines individually (right Alt + Home = left and right Ctrl + Home = right), so it works well...

 

what really impresses me is the look when the HUD comes up....awesome...well done ED.

 

The FM might need some adjutments for low level flying as the pitch goes crazy...I try to record a video tomorrow...

[Exorcet]

I'm a bit disappointed, looking at the replies apparently no one else still has SFM. My Flanker is definitely still SFM for whatever reason, I get scripted stalls. I have the new HDD and physics set to sim mode.

 

Is the PFM Flanker only in the stand alone version for now?

[NineLine]

I'm a bit disappointed, looking at the replies apparently no one else still has SFM. My Flanker is definitely still SFM for whatever reason, I get scripted stalls. I have the new HDD and physics set to sim mode.

 

Is the PFM Flanker only in the stand alone version for now?

 

Its only in the Open Beta, are you trying it in Open Beta?

[Exorcet]

Its only in the Open Beta, are you trying it in Open Beta?

Yes, open beta version 1.2.11.33866 Flaming Cliffs 3