[OPEN] "Mk 108 is weak" thread

[gavagai]

Oh, don't get me wrong, the new K-4 is great! But it does take me at least 3-4 hits with the spud gun to down the AI P-51. Maybe this is only an AI issue? We'll see what it's like in multiplayer...

:pilotfly:

[IonicRipper]

AI has always been more resistent to damage then human players.

[Bounder]

I haven't tried it against the AI but against players it's definitely not weak at all! 1 shell from dead six took out my opponents engine (instantly dead) and on a second player 2 hits (one straight after the other) took his tail clean off :megalol: I fired my shots when my target filled my gunsight and can say it's anything but weak :thumbup:

[gavagai]

Glad to hear it. We already have multiplayer fights? Which server? This 109 is super fun to fly. I love the rudder work that goes into it.

[Bounder]

We were playing on the ACG server earlier, it's still up but only has 109s.

 

After replying I just went off and tried against an AI P51 and 1 cannon hit from fairly close range (P51 almost filling my gunsight - see attached pics) took his tail clean off and set it ablaze. Maybe I am being very lucky or maybe you are firing from too far away or something?

 

[edit] earlier one person hit me with 2 cannon shells which did little if any damage but they were much further out. I suspect range may be a key factor here with my successful 1 hit = kill shots occurring where my target is almost filling my gunsight. Will test some more tomorrow.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Bounder

[gavagai]

But kinetic energy should have little to do with the lethality of the Mk 108, no?

[Bounder]

I'll leave this up to the experts to debate as honestly know nothing about this sort of stuff. My uneducated impression was that the speed of a projectile would have an effect on it's penetrating ability (and that the cannon round is decelerating over range) but I guess that is not the case. Not being funny, honestly know nothing about this. All I can say from testing is that if you hit the P51 from the range shown in my screen shot it is wrecking it in 1 shot (and not 3-4 as suggested).

Edited December 3, 2014 by Bounder

[gavagai]

I'm shooting from less than 200m, fwiw. I know for a fact that one shell was almost point-blank and nothing happened to the AI P-51.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

only had the fun to kill AI for now, and as Bounder states, i was also able to kill it with 1cannon burst if hit correctly.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

An explosive shell like the 30mm minengeschoss fired by the Mk108 destroys targets with chemical energy rather than kinetic energy . Range and speed of the projectile should make very little difference . It is the shell exploding that does the damage.

 

The damage modeling on all the ww2 birds seems off to me. At least compared to other sims and real life gun cam footage. It takes too many hits with the 20mm on the dora to bring down another dora or p51

 

I would expect the 30mm should be a one shot kill almost every time.

[otto]

The damage model for the 108 cannon is imho very very weak.And the visual damage, explosion when i hit the other plane with 30 mm ammo is weaker than a machine gun hit.

 

I compare it with the m2 machine gun fire from a p-51 which brakes a 109 in 2 with a few hits.

damage-108-11.trk

fm-109-and-108-damage-1.trk

M2-damage-model-1.trk

[fjacobsen]

I´m not sure about the damage modeling in Multiplayer, but I always found that DCS does a poor job simulating the guns and damage done by them in the P-51D and FW-190 D9.

 

Often I can pump in most of my ammo load at very short range without any impact on the AI aircraft.

 

I also think that a smoking AI aircraft should loose speed and be easier to catch, but in DCS they simply boost away as if the engines where made of kryptonite.

 

 

FinnJ

[otto]

Just an experiment.You can clearly see the 30mm cannon is weak and there is no hit explosions.

 

I don't want to make bad publicity for ED so i will take the video down if asked.

 

 

Rhz5-0Vyl7w

Edited December 3, 2014 by otto

[Virun]

Kinda strange, because I see explositions when I play it in my PC.

[gavagai]

Kinda strange, because I see explositions when I play it in my PC.

 

I also see explosions when the 30mm hits.

[Random]

Could be the fuzing? Thin wing/tail structure not beong enough to set it off? I've been on the receiving end of the mk108. It definately goes bang when it hits me!

[Alladyn]

Just an experiment.You can clearly see the 30mm cannon is weak and there is no hit explosions.

 

I don't want to make bad publicity for ED so i will take the video down if asked.

 

 

Rhz5-0Vyl7w

 

You missed 30mm shoots, one shoted before plan another one after plane...:doh:

[Kurfürst]

Also MK 108 was loaded 1:1 with High Capacity HE (Minesheels) a.k.a. big bang and Incendinary shells a.k.a. big fire.

[otto]

You missed 30mm shoots, one shoted before plan another one after plane...:doh:

 

 

I didn't hit it once i hit it twice(wing + fuselage ) :joystick: . Check the first track i posted above.

[otto]

I also see explosions when the 30mm hits.

 

I see explosions only when i hit with HEI. The minengeschoss has no flash.

 

I haven't tested vs human player .But vs the Ai the 30 mm is ridiculous.

 

 

 

I got hits at sec: 8 , 33 and at the end.

 

 

And the track that goes with this video.

 

Ihope it's fun to watch :pilotfly:.

Weak-108.trk

[DB 605]

I have only fought against ai Mustang but every time just single burst is been enought to bring it down. Many times without wing or tail.

[Konrad Friedrich]

I have only fought against ai Mustang but every time just single burst is been enought to bring it down. Many times without wing or tail.

 

Same.

 

The AI goes down by a single, short burst of the Mk 108.

Works best when in six position.

When I lead my fire with the MG 131's into the target I'll get an instant kill when I add the Mk 108.

I think this gun is quite deadly...

 

 

The Pony Riders will not like it....

Edited December 3, 2014 by Konrad Friedrich

[gavagai]

Let's not conflate bursts with individual shell hits. With the Mk 108 one hit should disable a fighter; one burst is too much.

[fastfreddie]

Not impressed so far with the 30s ... not going to cry bloody murder yet because I've played enough modules that sometimes it takes practice. I've quickly killed one ai with the 30s and registered many hits on another Mustang with no effect. My main problem atm is that when I'm getting hits they don't show up ... meaning no visual evidence of a hit. Now I do have to say that the MG131 are very effective now especially compared to what we had on the Dora.

[Konrad Friedrich]

Let's not conflate bursts with individual shell hits. With the Mk 108 one hit should disable a fighter; one burst is too much.

 

Hmmm, ok.

You're right.

But when shooting directly from six position you'll most likely hit with more than a single shell when considering the 650 rounds/minute rate of fire.

 

The only thing I can say is that all my AI opponents went down after a single, very short burst.

When I check the results I can see that I hit with the MG131 - and when the Mk108 joins in the P-51 is done.

Usually I can see something between two and four 30mm impacts in the result summary.

So I really can't say if it needs one or more Mk 108 hits.

 

But what I can say is that whenever a opponent gets in the line of fire - he's shot down.