DCS P51 Campaign: Mission 7: Navigation --> Fail to reach 20,000 feet

[Captn Courget]

Hey everyone,

 

im kinda new to DCS.

Im learning the p51 mustang via its manual, spending time in its cockpit and doing the campaign.

 

But i have an issue while attempting the 20,000 feet gate in the 7th campaign mission.

I almost reached it the other day but i was pushing hard on my engine and it shut off few feet bellow the gate.. raging.

 

I am probably doing this wrong as i only use the throttle and the propeller control and my navigation controls (i can start the beast, take off, land and stuff, but i have a poor knowledge in its engine management).

 

So my question is the following: what am i doing wrong ? what should i do that I'm not doing ?

 

what would you do to climb safely at high altitudes ?

 

please let me know, i can't wait to master this plane ! thanks :D

[effte]

Are you following the manual and holding proper airspeeds for the climb?

 

Failure to do so is a common mistake.

[Art-J]

I recall one of the gates was indeed difficult to reach, margins for error were tight, maybe it was the 20k one. You can reach it while flying at max climb power settings and recommended speeds, but only just.

 

Mind You, with current P-51 "oil bug", still not fixed in 1.2.14, the engine is more prone to failures when pushed, so You're somewhat justified :D. Just out of curiosity I'll try to fly the mission later the way I did it before the bug appeared and I'll see what happens.

[tintifaxl]

Manually switch your supercharger to high at 13k feet. That's what helped me back in the days.

[panzerd18]

Manually switch your supercharger to high at 13k feet. That's what helped me back in the days.

 

But don't over boost the engine.

[effte]

I just had a go in the current version, and 20k feet is, as it should be, not something the Mustang even breaks a sweat over.

 

Due to the concerns about the current modelling of the oil system, I kept a higher than normal climb speed of 160 mph indicated all the way up and left the radiators fully open manually. Apart from that, 46"/2700 rpm got me there with a good rate of climb and no issues.

 

If you prematurely shift the blower into high, you may be wasting horse power running the compressor. It's not needed - let the aircraft do it's thing and worry about maintaining proper air speed and manifold pressure.

 

Try this, and if you still have issues describe how you are going about it and we'll see if we can nail the problem down.

 

Cheers,

/Fred

 

Edit: Treat the above climb speed with a grain of caution - it was off the top of my head, and doesn't seem to agree with the manual speeds when I double checked. Always go by the book and not by what some geezer on the net tells you. Edit of the edit: D'oh, I'm used to flying Mustangs with the ASI in knots. :doh: Try 175 to 10,000, 170 to 20,000 and from then on 165. But 160 mph IAS works as well, obviously. :)

Edited February 7, 2015 by effte
Checked references.

[Tucano_uy]

Check that the Mixture lever is set to Run and not Emergency Full Rich. If it is, then you may need to fly a 360 degree turn or two to gain altitude before the gate.

[ricktoberfest]

I just circled around till I had enough altitude. There's no timer.

[Captn Courget]

thanks everyone,

 

Im going to follow your advice and let you know !

[Captn Courget]

are you guys also touching the oxygen system ?

 

i also have another small question,

 

my artificial horizon doesn't seem to work. how do you turn it on ? thanks again :)

[Rangi]

are you guys also touching the oxygen system ?

 

i also have another small question,

 

my artificial horizon doesn't seem to work. how do you turn it on ? thanks again :)

 

Mouse wheel over knob to uncage.

[Captain Orso]

Are you following the manual and holding proper airspeeds for the climb?

 

Failure to do so is a common mistake.

 

What I find in the manual is, "Optimum climb to altitude speed is approximately 170 mph", on page 130.

 

After TO at 3000 RPM and about 60 Hg, as per the manual, I shut back to 2700 RPM and Hg about 45, but already oil temp is red-lined and doesn't drop to normal ever. By the time I get to 5k feet oil pressure is dropping too and after another 5 minutes it's at 0.

 

Since it's about the 3rd time I've tried this without success, I just let it run quiting--if the engine blows, then it blows. But the only thing that happens is that the engine gets more and more feeble. The plane flies more and more with the nose further and further up, even on "level" flight (climb indicator is on 0), and I cannot maintain proper air speed even on level flight.

 

It takes nearly a half an hour to get to 10k feet and toward 20k it's just impossible.

 

If others have done this without issue, then so can I ... I think. The question is, how ?

Edited February 16, 2015 by Captain Orso

[effte]

Sounds like you're doing it right. You know what the next step is, I think? Track? :)

[tintifaxl]

 

If others have done this without issue, then so can I ... I think. The question is, how ?

 

Open the radiator to avoid overheating and try my advice to manually switch the supercharger at 13k.

[Rangi]

 

It takes nearly a half an hour to get to 10k feet and toward 20k it's just impossible.

 

If others have done this without issue, then so can I ... I think. The question is, how ?

 

 

Half an hour to get to 10k? Sounds like your engine was damaged before you started the climb. I got to 20k fine on latest build, it took a couple of orbits to get to the highest gate, but I had not been climbing at highest rate. 45 hg and 2700 rpm worked for me, I did not use manual supercharge. Temps were all in normal range, but I did use 55 hg just a little to get up to the high gate.

[Captain Orso]

Thanks for all the tips guys :thumbup:

 

I think I am damaging the engine during TO, because oil temp red-lines there and never goes back again. But shouldn't that be listed in the log?

 

The only thing I can think of that might be doing damage would be my liberal use of dilution. I did about 15-20 seconds twice during warm-up. Once right after starting the engine and once when pressure started to raise again after about 5 minutes. Is that too much? How do you guys do it? Do you do it at all?

 

I can't seem to attach the track :mad:. I had to compress it into RAR format because of the size (zip is too large too) but I keep getting a message saying:

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.

Do you need a minimum number of posts before you can upload attachements?

 

Must be

[effte]

I'd suggest to leave the oil dilution well alone on startup. It's something you use before shutdown if it's cold. The fuel is supposed to be long gone by the time you apply any kind of power. Taking off with diluted oil should spell disaster - and I guess it does. I'd also try to avoid spending to much time on the ground with the oil system in its current state. Startup, taxi, runup - go. No five minutes needed .

[Captain Orso]

Yikes! What with and under-warmed engine and oil pressure pushing 200lbs :huh:?

 

I tried again today diluting the oil only once right after start, waiting a bit for warm up, then after take-off RPM back to 27k and about 45 Hg. I paid close attention that minimum IAS was 170.

 

Right after TO temp was red-lined but dropped to the upper edge of the green zone after a minute or so, but wouldn't go down further. I read that under IAS 170 and there's not enough airflow for cooling and this is what my experience was today.

 

Additionally, I have to say, even with oil temp just at the edge of green, oil pressure remained just above green the entire time.

 

I could climb to 10k feet without too much trouble :thumbup:, but after that it became increasingly difficult to manage the entire situation. Climb above 500 f/m was impossible without speed dropping to below IAS 170 and oil temp going above green, so I would level out a bit until I got above 170 again and then eased into 500 f/s again.

 

I have to say, I think I need a new joystick. My old Logitech Extreme 3D Pro is just not making it. I can't trim the plane at all for the life of me. Even on level flight at about 170-180 IAS with elevator trim full-down and aileron full-left-up (left trim surface pointing down) if I let the stick ease into neutral (spring return-to-middle) the plane still pulls up and starts to bank left :doh:.

 

Trying to hold a level horizon and 500 f/m climb or less meant constant 1/10th of a millimeter adjustments always with the return-spring in play when I reached it, because of the above and I have the axises tuned with curvature at 30 right, but it just wears you down after over a halve an hour of flight .

 

I had to pause after about 45 minutes to ease the cramp in my neck. I came back after about 5 minutes and looked at the map and then couldn't get back into cockpit view :furious:. I eventually had to kill the game through the task manager .

[Art-J]

If others have done this without issue, then so can I ... I think. The question is, how ?

 

More or less, like this: (see attachment)

 

Keep the plane trimmed (especially the ball!), keep the max continuous power settings (46", 2700), keep the speed at at least 170 indicated and You'll be fine. You might need to pump it up to 50-something inch before gate at 20k feet to make up for the speed lost before 2nd supercharger speed kicks in. This is the only gate, which causes problems, you will drop a bit below 170 IAS, but you can still JUST reach the gate in one go, even without switching supercharger manually.

 

Don't think too much about dilutions, oil temps and pressures.

 

Actually, just forget about them :D. True, they are bugged and won't get in green range together, but they will be close enough to complete mission without engine blowing up. The only really important thing to keep an eye on is the coolant temp.

mission_7.zip

Edited February 16, 2015 by Art-J

[Winston60]

There's just too many things wrong with this aircraft in the current release. It used to be fine but later patches have broken it severely. Better to wait until they fix this 'super-bugged' aircraft.

 

* Performance is less than actual specs.

* Oil viscosity is wrong, hence the oil pressure bug.

* Temps go too high on auto-radiators. Totally wrong.

* Engine failures are different in single player vs. multiplayer

 

It's really a shame to have once had a fairly good flying and performing P-51 in DCS World but since these bugs were introduced the Mustang is no longer a valid aircraft in this simulator, IMHO. Hoping for better days.

[effte]

An additional point: As fully open throttle can no longer maintain climb manifold pressure, increase RPM to keep MAP up. It's a supercharger, running off the crank, so the maximum pressure ratio it can provide is linked to engine RPM.

[Eros]

Hey everyone,

 

im kinda new to DCS.

Im learning the p51 mustang via its manual, spending time in its cockpit and doing the campaign.

 

But i have an issue while attempting the 20,000 feet gate in the 7th campaign mission.

I almost reached it the other day but i was pushing hard on my engine and it shut off few feet bellow the gate.. raging.

 

I am probably doing this wrong as i only use the throttle and the propeller control and my navigation controls (i can start the beast, take off, land and stuff, but i have a poor knowledge in its engine management).

 

So my question is the following: what am i doing wrong ? what should i do that I'm not doing ?

 

what would you do to climb safely at high altitudes ?

 

please let me know, i can't wait to master this plane ! thanks :D

 

 

Please sir, have a look at WinterOwl's playlist of the whole DCS Mustang campaign.

 

 

He posted those very good videos including his errors so you can see what he was doing wrong and how he fixed it.

It helped me a lot when i was trying myself to go through these missions! :-)

 

If i remember well, you can't pass this mission because you forget 2 things:

 

The ram air

The mixture.

 

Have a look at the videos and you will see what i mean.

Part 4 and 5 will solve this for you

[NineLine]

There's just too many things wrong with this aircraft in the current release. It used to be fine but later patches have broken it severely. Better to wait until they fix this 'super-bugged' aircraft.

 

* Performance is less than actual specs.

* Oil viscosity is wrong, hence the oil pressure bug.

* Temps go too high on auto-radiators. Totally wrong.

* Engine failures are different in single player vs. multiplayer

 

It's really a shame to have once had a fairly good flying and performing P-51 in DCS World but since these bugs were introduced the Mustang is no longer a valid aircraft in this simulator, IMHO. Hoping for better days.

 

1) Based on what?

2) This has been reported and I believe fixed internally.

3) As I understand it, its the nature of the auto-rads, they cant keep up to quick changes in conditions.

4) Only thing remotely like this I have seen is the fact that the AI are generally a better shot than most real players, otherwise I dont see an engine failure difference... in any case we would need to see a track, showing the same conditions for both SP and MP showing the issue.

5) You are off topic.

[Captain Orso]

More or less, like this: (see attachment)

 

Keep the plane trimmed (especially the ball!), keep the max continuous power settings (46", 2700), keep the speed at at least 170 indicated and You'll be fine. You might need to pump it up to 50-something inch before gate at 20k feet to make up for the speed lost before 2nd supercharger speed kicks in. This is the only gate, which causes problems, you will drop a bit below 170 IAS, but you can still JUST reach the gate in one go, even without switching supercharger manually.

 

Don't think too much about dilutions, oil temps and pressures.

 

Actually, just forget about them :D. True, they are bugged and won't get in green range together, but they will be close enough to complete mission without engine blowing up. The only really important thing to keep an eye on is the coolant temp.

 

Hi Art-J,

 

Thanks for replying. I'm not sure what to think about your mission 7 track. I ran it and ... at 7 minutes into the mission while trying to take off from the grass by flying straight ahead you crash into the radar antenna :huh:.

 

Patch level differences? Trolling? :hmm:

[NineLine]

Hi Art-J,

 

Thanks for replying. I'm not sure what to think about your mission 7 track. I ran it and ... at 7 minutes into the mission while trying to take off from the grass by flying straight ahead you crash into the radar antenna :huh:.

 

Patch level differences? Trolling? :hmm:

 

Tracks dont always playback correctly... especially if you fast forward through them....