Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods

[debolestis]

Or you can try mmjoy2, it is awesome, you can do so much with it. I plan to add a few more toggles as shift switches, basically double or quadruple number of switches. It is very cheap, I don`t know if you are for DIY. If you can read basic schematics and do soldering than SFS is not difficult to mod. Only problem with SFS is that it is difficult to disasemble. If you made a mistake than it is problematic, but not imposible.

 

I started with modding one year ago, and I learned so much. Now I cannot imagine that I`ll ever again buy joystick or throttle. I can built everything myself now. Just do it!

 

Also consider GVL224 mechanics, it will be cheaper than fusba.

[Sokol1_br]

The old components does not matter, if this have a acceptable response after the realsimulator mod, then is ok.

 

Yes, but the risk of something fails is higher with then.

Look at the experience of one FUSBA buyer in the first pages of this topic.

 

Repeating: it has value for those who are not adept of DIY. :thumbup:

Edited March 10, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Brewnix]

Now I have a few questions.

 

 

1 - Castle Switch

2 - Trim Switch

3 - Auto Acquisition Switch

4 - Paddle Switch

5 - Nose wheel Steering Button

6 - Gun Trigger

7 - Weapon Release Button

 

Real castle (1) and trim (2) switch can be pressed down as well. I cannot do it on original PCB. I found these switches on eBay:

 

 

 

Are these any good? Did anybody try them?

 

Auto acquisition switch (3) can be tipped forward and aft, at the moment it only can be pressed down. Is there such a 3 way switch? I haven't found it on eBay. I could maybe use an encoder with integrated push button.

 

Gun Trigger is two stage, any ideas how to mod it?

 

Hey just for another reference for a china hat switch seems to be not too much in price, I thought it was relevant to the thread. Couldn't really find specs on how big or tall. Anyone got experience with this switch...

 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/infinitygripaccess5.php

[debolestis]

Almost identical switch is in Thrustmaster X-fighter that I have.

It is a 4way switch, piece of crap.

 

I'll make some 3D prints in which those two other switches can be mounted. They are 5 way.

[Brewnix]

Thanks! I was curious I went thru the whole thread intrigue with your project got motivated and got my own Talon to mod. But was wondering what solution did you come up with replacing the pots. Looks like you were doing hall sensors but I didn't find any other pic on how you mounted them. Thanks for your time.

[Sokol1_br]

Brewnix,

 

The "easy" way to replacing pot's in Suncon sticks is exchange the whole base, e.g with BAUR model. :)

 

Other is: get pot with original specifications and replace or transform defective/worm original pot in "Doc.Flyer" HALL sensor.

 

This guy did "Doc.Flyer" solution, maybe he can give a feedback about: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4074658/Re:_MMJoy_-_Build_your_own_USB#Post4074658

 

No other solution appeared until now.

[Brewnix]

Thanks Sokol1. I did see that post a couple of times. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3108472/Searchpage/1/Main/319346/Words/docflyer/Search/true/Re_Suncom_F_15_100_SOLUTION_Ha.html#Post3108472

But all the pics are broken to me. So I guess where is the DOC flyers guide at, is there another webpage. I tried searching and nothing really comes up.. Was wondering I have seen the BAUR gimbal in SimHQ. Is there a web page to buy the gimbal from? I personally got the Talon for the handle I wanted a semi close look to the F18 Flightstick when that DCS module comes out and wanted to add a extension. So really I have a open canvas for any modification to the stick. Or my own modified flight stick. I don't really need the talon to be exact as it was base and all. I thought might be able to use it. Thanks

[debolestis]

Thanks! I was curious I went thru the whole thread intrigue with your project got motivated and got my own Talon to mod. But was wondering what solution did you come up with replacing the pots. Looks like you were doing hall sensors but I didn't find any other pic on how you mounted them. Thanks for your time.

 

There is no really good solution for slide hall sensor mods. I tried it and resolution so, so, but major problem is mechanical, in Suncom base, It will wear out whatever you do.

 

What I did is to use CH Flightstick or Combatstick base with Suncom grip. It can be easily done. You have to remove tailpiece, cut it, and secure it to CH base, like in this photo:

 

 

Problem with ch bases is that they are "pincer type" and there is center "bump", Suncom has more warthog feel.

 

What I want is to make exchangeable grips with single base. I used part of old Cougar gimbal, and tailpiece:

 

 

And this sensor, that can be easily mounted inside CH gimbals.

 

 

I also made this tailpiece for 3D print, it can be used as Suncom to TM base adapter. So far I finished F16 grip, next is F15 and in the end B8 grip, I work slowly but I'll post photos as soon as I'm done.

 

If you don't want exchangeable grips the all you need is old gameport CH joystick, 2 sensors and leonardo pro micro board and that is it. Older CH joysticks are really cheap on eBay and are always in good condition.

 

Or as Sokol1 said Baur BRD gimbal is best but probably more expensive solution.

 

I just ordered larger Alps 5way switches. When they arrive I'll make something from them that looks like this:

 

 

 

I'll put it on my Shapeways page as soon as I'm done.

Edited July 13, 2017 by debolestis

[Sokol1_br]

Was wondering I have seen the BAUR gimbal in SimHQ. Is there a web page to buy the gimbal from?

 

PM Baur in SimHQ about the gimbal.

 

The price in their Russian forum - 5500r is equivalent to ~90$.

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=882

 

BTW - In IL-2 Russian forum a guy put bearings in CH gimbal. Dimensions:

 

 

The ones with "X" is not needed - if for "twist rudder" adapted from Logitech/Saitek stick.

 

And, if go buy CH gameport for use their base dont get the Combatstick, get the Fighterstick or the Combatstick 568 - with the same base of Fighterstick, because in these the central pin is steel (link in the picture above) and the whole gimbal is more strong, in Combatstick is all plastic, with smaller dimensions.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[debolestis]

[/url]

 

BTW - In IL-2 Russian forum a guy put bearings in CH gimbal. Dimensions:

 

 

The ones with "X" is not needed - if for "twist rudder" adapted from Logitech/Saitek stick.

 

And, if go buy CH gameport for use their base dont get the Combatstick, get the Fighterstick or the Combatstick 568 - with the same base of Fighterstick, because in these the central pin is steel (link in the picture above) and the whole gimbal is more strong, in Combatstick is all plastic, with smaller dimensions.

 

That is not bad idea do you have link for this?

[Sokol1_br]

No, I try find again with no success, seems the guy dont mention CH in topic name... think is in Flea (market) section. But no more references beyond this pictures. The dimensions is answer for my question. :)

Edited March 26, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Brewnix]

Thanks for the help a lot good info. When I get chance I am going pm BAUR about that gimbal. I am thinking it would be good. It looks solid and for around 90$ that's a great price in my opinion. I can appreciate the reconstruction of old stuff. That is sometimes a feat in its self. I do have a Promicro board I bought from the local electronic store. It was $14.99. I know there the clones on ebay less but. But its good to help the local vendors. Thanks!

[Sokol1_br]

Military HAT on eBay.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-Surplus-AVIATION-PUSH-SWITCH-9020010788-1-Nose-Up-Nose-Down-NEW-/111270418344?hash=item19e83bd7a8:g:OOEAAOxyldpSDBDt

[Sokol1_br]

In CheckSix are some 3D files for prints (missing) part for Cougar TQS. Example:

 

Maybe Shapeways do a better finish... :)

 

http://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=286&t=189628&start=100

 

If you, like my, are curious with the purpose of this "pinky trigger":

 

[ame]

[/ame]
Edited May 21, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[heloguy]

Anyone know which pots are used in the Talon, and where to find them?

[Sokol1_br]

If you have just replacing then are 100k pot, B type (linear response).

 

If you are modernizing the joy for USB can use 10~50K pot, B type.

 

In both cases you need a pot with exactly same physical dimensions.

 

Dont know the part number and where to buy, but they exist Real Simulator

send new ones with their USB interface (FUSBA) for these joys.

 

No practical way is know for replace these pot with HALL or similar sensor in their "oscillatory" gimbal - move in X, Y simultaneous.

[heloguy]

If you have just replacing then are 100k pot, B type (linear response).

 

If you are modernizing the joy for USB can use 10~50K pot, B type.

 

In both cases you need a pot with exactly same physical dimensions.

 

Dont know the part number and where to buy, but they exist Real Simulator

send new ones with their USB interface (FUSBA) for these joys.

 

No practical way is know for replace these pot with HALL or similar sensor in their "oscillatory" gimbal - move in X, Y simultaneous.

 

Thanks Sokol, actually that's why I asked here. Realsimulator told me that they only have pots for the throttle, not the Talon. Unless you're sure they're the same. Guess I'll have to break it open to find out.

[Sokol1_br]

No, they are not the same, the pot on stick is smaller that ones used in throttle.

[SkateZilla]

Just a heads up,

 

I got a eBay notification about a Suncom F-15E Eagle Stick, Mint Condition, Listing.

 

Eagle's are the Version that has all the Buttons/Switches etc, the one that was discontinued due to TM Lawsuit.

 

Easily Converted to USB using BU-Controller board.

[Sokol1_br]

Yes, USB conversion is easy do do, and can be done with the more cheap and flexible Arduino PRO+MMJoy2, but even if the pot's in this "mint" are OK eventually they go south and remain the problem of find replacements or replace then with better sensors - due gimbal mechanics peculiarity.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[debolestis]

That is the main problem of this gimbal type. Eagle has all the same buttons as talon, there are no 5way or 3way switches. Unless you need it as collectible, there is no point spending a lot of money on it. If your main goal is conversion, buy any other.

[debolestis]

I made a few changes to my HOTAS.

 

 

I added 4 new switches to SFS throttle and made few modifications on gimbal.

 

 

I had Honeywell toggles, one Otto push button and two Dowty locking toggles. I wanted to use Dowty (grey) toggles as shift switches, but I think I l'll remove one and replace it with another Honeywell toggle.

 

 

On joystick, I added 4 springs like on this photo:

 

 

I removed original springs in CH gimbal, now there is no center bump. Feeling is very similar to Cougar NXT gimbal. It works surprisingly well, I am very happy with result.

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by debolestis

[Brewnix]

Outstanding! Looks good..

[debolestis]

I printed Suncom to Thrustmaster adapter on Shapeways.

 

 

It works, more on it HERE:

Edited July 13, 2017 by debolestis

[Sokol1_br]

Sergeype PCB for replacing in Suncom grip with Shift Register CD40921 and for use ALPS RKJXL 9 way switches as HAT replacement.

For "Aquisition Swich" - small PCB - the switch are wired as 3 positions switches with back, forth an press.

 

Both HAT has press function so the grip end with 16 functions.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2016/post-17384-0-44531300-1471787490.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/4704-suncom-f15e-talon-sfs-throttle/page-2#entry440172

 

Very dense, double side PCB - need be made by professional shops.

And use SMD components for assembly - the diodes to make RKJXL diagonal switches act as two simultaneous pressed buttons as in conventional HAT's, to mach controller firmware.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Sokol1_br