Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[hansangb]

Is your plan to sell the losing device?

 

 

1080x1200 per eye, 90Hz. That information has been available for quite some time.

 

 

Yes, but I can take my time checking out Vive after playing around with CV1. I already new about Wags' comment that they have Vive in house. The thing is, I've been playing DCS since DK1 days - what...year or two ago? - and it's *still* not optimized for Rift. I have to assume that Vive is further behind in terms of optimized experience.

 

So I'll test Rift, and check out Vive user reports and pick it up if everyone is happy with it. And sell off the loser.

[metalnwood]

The only advantage less SDE has is because of a larger pixels

 

The resolution is the same but it is possible that 3 pixels on a screen with lots of SDE is not as noticeable as 3 pixels on a screen with less SDE. Chivas could probably spell that out better for people who might not know :)

 

At this early stage of VR with low resolution, I dont think that one will have the leg up on the other. One may have slightly less SDE than the other but I think at this stage, what will make far more difference is the software catering specifically to these devices and rendering far objects a little differently.

[hannibal]

im waning on pre-ordering the vive.

 

i think im going to stick with oculus due to bulit in headphones, and better egronmics.

 

but the vive tracking puts it at a plus

[S3NTRY11]

OK.. It appears every point has to spelled out for you.

I do need it clarified when someone can't say what they mean, or just spins what they mean when someone challenges their notions.

Because...

We don't know the most important specs of the displays yet. We know the displays resolution, but there is a hellofalot more to displays than their resolution and HZ, that will make a huge difference in the quality of the experience. The space between pixels alone is very important.

...sounds very much like you are saying SDE is more important. Which is what I was seeking clarity on. Which I disagree with, for the reasons mentioned.

 

The Vive and Rift will have the SAME resolution and HZ, so the IMPORTANT part will be the individuals displays space between, pixel arrangement, pixel Colorado arrangement, fill rate, etc etc

The amount of SDE will have a huge effect on how well you will be able spot distant aircraft.

AS I SAID THATS ONLY PART OF THE EQUATION

So now you're saying my thoughts on what you were saying we're right. You're a strange dude. And yeah, I still disagree, as I said.

Also, saying SDE fifteen different ways (SDE is just a manifestation of all the jumbled terms you used subsequent to it), doesn't increase the number of factors you're talking about. It's all SDE and it's all not going to make much difference at all. Or not not as much difference as you're huffing on about, at least.

Edited February 24, 2016 by S3NTRY11

[S3NTRY11]

The only advantage less SDE has is because of a larger pixels

 

The resolution is the same but it is possible that 3 pixels on a screen with lots of SDE is not as noticeable as 3 pixels on a screen with less SDE. Chivas could probably spell that out better for people who might not know :)

 

So basically, what I said? ;)

 

Edit: my bad, I did actually misread this one. Yeah, I disagree.

Edited February 24, 2016 by S3NTRY11

[S3NTRY11]

Yes, but I can take my time checking out Vive after playing around with CV1.

 

So I'll test Rift, and check out Vive user reports and pick it up if everyone is happy with it. And sell off the loser.

 

You may even make a profit, if you decide fast enough!

 

I already new about Wags' comment that they have Vive in house. The thing is, I've been playing DCS since DK1 days - what...year or two ago? - and it's *still* not optimized for Rift. I have to assume that Vive is further behind in terms of optimized experience.

 

Do you mean DK2? Because I can only imagine the nauseating experience that would be DK1 in DCS.

 

What do you mean by 'optimized'?

I imagine the libraries would be fairly similar, implementation-wise, apart from motion control integration. And those libraries would be optimised at the source, if you're talking about performance.

 

There have been a few that have mentioned optimisation, but I seriously don't get the reference, unless you're talking about the optimum way to integrate controllers.

 

And if it is controller optimisation you're concerned about... Well, it's a no-brainer - Vive FTW, obviously ;)

Edited February 24, 2016 by S3NTRY11
VIVE FTW

[Shizora]

Wish we could get a statement from ED about Vive support before pre orders will open.

[Nirvi]

Wish we could get a statement from ED about Vive support before pre orders will open.

 

Vive is already working in DCS.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/223750/discussions/0/412447613577428317/#c412447613577441172

[S3NTRY11]

Vive is already working in DCS.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/223750/discussions/0/412447613577428317/#c412447613577441172

Yikes, why isn't that info in this thread?

[vicx]

The person on the nets complaining that their TitanZ should be rated higher for VR is dreaming.

 

Sorry guy but the TitanZ only has 48ROPS which is the same as my poor GTX780. Sadly the TitanZ gets hit with the extra whammy of also having a rather slow core clock. The reason these high end cards are so poor for VR is that they were made when VR wasn't on the radar. Nvidia dedicated all the silicon in these beasts into shader processors and texturing units. These cards are total beasts for compute and they can do amazing effects in real-time ... but what they can't do is consistently render 4K worth of pixels under 10ms.

 

It is telling that the heavy hitters in the SteamVR test all have 96ROPS and pixel fillrates to match.

 

Also doing well are AMD cards with 64ROPS. It is pretty cool how well the R9 290 does. It really is the best "cheap" VR card you can get right now ... if you can find one still for sale.

 

The GTX970 is not as good as the 290 with only 56ROPS but it does have a pretty high core clock which is why it does so much better than the Nvidia 700 series cards which are ~200-300Mhz slower.

Edited February 24, 2016 by vicx

[Milopapa]

Vive is already working in DCS.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/223750/discussions/0/412447613577428317/#c412447613577441172

 

Just so we have it here as well:

 

22 Feb @ 7:18pm

Although there are improvements we need to make, the Vive is already working in DCS World.

[OldE24]

wag's answered me in steam the other day didnt see this post...but it looks like best VR performer/PRICE is ATI 390/390x over 970 but intrestingly the furyx's dont perform as well as i would of thought.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/wiki/systems

 

2600k@4.5 and R9 390Strix and got a 7.2 on steams test.

[OldE24]

yeah i am also just waiting. i just bought this card as a in between untill i build a new system sometime later this year. but i'm still on the fence about buying, if it's on steam vr hardware page for sale it might make it an easier decision but we will see.

 

Edit: it will be awsome to see steam crap on it self if it is.

[Chivas]

I do need it clarified when someone can't say what they mean, or just spins what they mean when someone challenges their notions.

Because...

 

...sounds very much like you are saying SDE is more important. Which is what I was seeking clarity on. Which I disagree with, for the reasons mentioned.

 

 

So now you're saying my thoughts on what you were saying we're right. You're a strange dude. And yeah, I still disagree, as I said.

Also, saying SDE fifteen different ways (SDE is just a manifestation of all the jumbled terms you used subsequent to it), doesn't increase the number of factors you're talking about. It's all SDE and it's all not going to make much difference at all. Or not not as much difference as you're huffing on about, at least.

 

You can intestinally misinterpret my meanings, quote sentences out of context, ignore previous posts, but the fact remains we don't know the finer details of these displays which could easily make the difference in flight sims. These details might not matter in games like JoB Simulator, but could be very important when required to spot distant objects. Any reasonable person would understand that unless they are blinded by some sort of agenda.

 

 

Spotting distant lights on a black background in Space sims is easy, but nobody fully expressed their views on a decent flight sim yet with the latest VR headsets. DCS has only suggested that the CV1 is like night and day better than the DK2, and Timewarp makes lower frame rates possible, which doesn't answer all the questions.

 

We do know that Oculus and Vive are using low persistence OLED displays with the same resolution and hz. BUT its highly unlikely they are made by the same manufacturer, especially since we know that Oculus has had custom displays built with further VR qualities. Vive has been very quite on that front, other than suggesting they are working on a brighter display than their current prototypes. Some reviewers have suggested that the Rift might have slightly less SDE than the Vive which MIGHT make the Rift a better solution for flight sims.

 

We also know that Oculus has built custom hybrid lenses which they say combines the best features of normal, and Fresnel lenses, while Vive is using Fresnel lenses. We don't know how that will effect flight sims. The only thing I've heard which could be right or wrong, is that Fresnel lenses can cause some banding in the skies, that could be a problem for flight sims.

 

The "Devil is always in the Details" especially when these first consumer versions are using relatively low resolution displays.

 

Personally as I've said many times I DONT CARE WHO makes the better VR headset. I've preordered the Rift, as I'll have VR sooner, don't need or want VR controllers at this time, its cheaper because it doesn't come with controllers, DCS, and COD will support the Rift. We simply don't know which is better, but for the above reasons I'm leaning toward the Rift. If those reasoning's turn out to be wrong, there is no need to wait, when I can easily Cancel or Sell the Rift even at a profit to people who get tired of waiting for their preorder. The good news so far is that Vive and Oculus appear to be creating very good first versions of VR headset, where you can't go to far wrong with either one. It will depend more on the type of games you want to run and go from there.

[S3NTRY11]

You can intestinally misinterpret my meanings, quote sentences out of context, ignore previous posts

Can you point out where I did that?

Simply saying something doesn't make it true.

Edited February 25, 2016 by S3NTRY11
Formatting fubar

[BIGNEWY]

please stay on topic, if you need to take it to PM's

[vicx]

Interesting Vicx, so where does the GTX980ti come in at? And what is the best VR card available at this time, price aside? (in your opinion)

 

You have seen SteamVR results table for yourself so you know the 980TI dominates as it should.

 

What we need to keep in mind is that the SteamVR test uses either the Source2 engine or Unity engine with a custom SteamVR renderer. The results are only useful as an indication of the performance you can expect from SteamVR launch titles or games from teams that have worked closely with Valve

 

The SteamVR test is a best case scenario test and your hardware will probably not run as well for games from other developers. I suggest DCS falls into this category.

 

I have no idea what CPU or GPU configuration combo will give you 90fps with no dropped frames while flying over Vegas in DCS. This is probably why DCS can't be used as a VR poster-child.

[jared9191]

This is going to be me

 

[Milopapa]

Found something interesting on Reddit:

 

Also, there is a guy in the comments who tried the Vive in DCS!!!

 

EDIT:

"I'm on an i7 2600k (Stock, no OC) with an EVGA GTX 970, it ran perfectly fine on the highest settings, maybe some minor fps dips but nothing that would ruin the experience.

If I'd turn down the graphics a tiny bit it'd run flawlessly I'd imagine."

 

Obviously this must be just sitting on a runway looking around in the cockpit, not flying over the Strip.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Milopapa
Further info

[Johnny Dioxin]

I decided to have a go with the now infamous VR Performance Tester:

 

i5 Sandybridge @ 4.3GHz

16GB DDR3 at 2133MHz

GTX970 G1 GAMING 4GB

Samsung 850 EVO SSDs all round

Asus Z77 MoBo

[S3NTRY11]

This was interesting...

 

To read that, it looks like ED are no longer using the Oculus SDK? I wonder whether that's the case, or whether I've read that wrong, or the guy is speculating.

[felthat]

Does DCS rly support vive controllers? Steam only says "Tracked motion controllers" which can be anything, even kinect, hydra or trackIR (ok, no question, i just checked reddit thread, go on dark jedi, delete this post)

Edited February 27, 2016 by felthat

[Barbajet]

I wish we had more news this article is from Mar 1, 2015

[Milopapa]

HTC Vive global prices leaked

 

Have you guys seen this?

[Kirin]

Happy Pre-Order Day everyone!

 

Can't wait to try out DCS with the Vive in a little bit more than a months time!