lunaticfringe Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 The question isn't necessarily how the AIM-54 performs, but how various SPOs define what the AWG-9 is presenting as threat range. If the Phoenix has a reasonable Pk, a fast pair in Med-style 0-4-4 or 0-6-2 may have good opportunities to make it into good Sparrow parameters while the opposition is working on defending something they think is coming down on them via TWS.
*Rage* Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 A 6-0-2 loadout is basically them telling the Tomcat to go out and kill an incoming bomber wave, their survival and coming back without running out of fuel is a secondary priority. Thanks. Running out of fuel due to the heavy load? What about combat maneuvering? Keep in mind..a Tomcat 4 ship could really be a handful for a Flanker 4 ship depending on the loadout. If two of the Tomcats were to carry a 4-2-2 load, and two were to carry a 2-4-2 load..that's 12 Aim-54's 12 Aim-7's 8 Aim-9's That's a lot of missiles hauled up for the Flankers to handle. Indeed. Although the Flankers will be packing 40. Su33s (PFM yay!) will be packing 48! Its not really the missile count im talking about though. Its the load you can carry and still maneuvre against other 4th gen fighters (combat turns, missile defense, split S- notch-climb-re-engage etc). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
*Rage* Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 The question isn't necessarily how the AIM-54 performs, but how various SPOs define what the AWG-9 is presenting as threat range. If the Phoenix has a reasonable Pk, a fast pair in Med-style 0-4-4 or 0-6-2 may have good opportunities to make it into good Sparrow parameters while the opposition is working on defending something they think is coming down on them via TWS. Same as it is now. More lights, closer emitter, adjusted for emission strength. Its quite easy to trash an F15/120C TWS shot if you assume its coming and still be in good launch parameters for an ER shot. Does the AWG-9 have better TWS capability? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
probad Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Thanks. Running out of fuel due to the heavy load? What about combat maneuvering? 6 phoenix is a standoff loadout, you're thinking about coming back and rearming for round 2, not trying follow your phoenixes in with just 2 winders. Does the AWG-9 have better TWS capability? better? you can launch against 6 instead of 4, if that's what you are asking? Do you mean 2 AIM-54s, 3 AIM-7s, and 2 heaters? yeah it's always ARH-SARH-IR Edited July 8, 2017 by probad
*Rage* Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 better? you can launch against 6 instead of 4, if that's what you are asking? Nope. An F15 will provide simultaneous updates to its 4 actives. Even then, in game, its quite easy to trash. My understanding is the AWG-9 does it in sequence. Hence much poorer multi-TWS ability against fighters looking for trouble. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
probad Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 Nope. An F15 will provide simultaneous updates to its 4 actives. Even then, in game, its quite easy to trash. My understanding is the AWG-9 does it in sequence. Hence much poorer multi-TWS ability against fighters looking for trouble. im not sure what you mean by simultaneous and sequential here. in both apg-63 and awg-9, being mechanically scanned radars, there is no truly simultaneous updating -- the radar must cycle through contacts sequentially for updates. that is why tracks are generated, and why tracks can be trashed.
captain_dalan Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 Nope. An F15 will provide simultaneous updates to its 4 actives. Even then, in game, its quite easy to trash. My understanding is the AWG-9 does it in sequence. Hence much poorer multi-TWS ability against fighters looking for trouble. This is the first time i read there is something conceptually different between an AWG9 and APG-70 TWS operation. I mean yeah, there would differences into volume scanned, refresh rates, signal rejections....but the mid flight updates? Any good reading material on the subject? Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache
lunaticfringe Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 Same as it is now. More lights, closer emitter, adjusted for emission strength. I didn't say the actual SPO would function differently. I'm saying we don't know how it's going to handle range based on emission strength, because it's going to be receiving substantially higher power from longer range. And until we know the point it designates a threat F-14 as priority, discussion on loadout is a moot point. There's a large difference between priority at 30 miles and 60 relative to time available to the advantaged party to set up, versus how long the aircraft in a defensive posture must look before they can consider playing for a shot. As to beating an F-15C's TWS in DCS, a substantial amount of that is based against functions of the -63 not currently modeled to even the MSIP with PSP configuration (as we're supposed to have right now). I wouldn't compare a neutered FC3 radar to a DCS level setup- even one as raw as the AWG-9, since a halfway competent RIO (here's looking at Jester as a start) can direct the system through analogous operations just about as fast as the APG-63's back end, and faster if he's on the ball. Past performance is no guarantee of future results, as it were.
*Rage* Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 I already have my RIO designated and in training (assuming a release not sooner than September)! With regards to SPO I still dont see your point. In a carrier defence scenario the threats are known (14vs33). Once the F14 is flyable we'll know how it triggers the SPO. 80% nails vs an F15 means to expects a TWS launch. I expect for an F14 itll be in the region of 60% SPO. Sure, in an airquake scenario with everything from F5s/21s/Mirages etc on both sides it gets complicated. Although thats no different to how things are now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
microvax Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 AWG9 has 6 independent guidance channels which all can be used at the same time. Its in the same way a one way link incorporated into the radar signal as it is with el amraam. The digital computing component in the awg9 is much slower then the apg63. But the AWG9 also has shenanigans like manually tunable doppler filter etc.. So it depends a lot on modelling. Only source I know on gimbal limits I have says its very asymetrical aka -25/+55 elavation and +/-85 horizontal. if that is true thats going to complicate things quite a bit. Scanrate is 80deg/s. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?
*Rage* Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 This is the first time i read there is something conceptually different between an AWG9 and APG-70 TWS operation. I mean yeah, there would differences into volume scanned, refresh rates, signal rejections....but the mid flight updates? Any good reading material on the subject? Sorry I dont. Its something I read before and kinda forgot about. Now the release seems imminent its piqued my interest again. Once im home ill dig around again. All the tests ive read about multi TWS launches have been against drones simulating bombers (High alt/M0.6-.8/steady course/RCS augmentation). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
microvax Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 As long as the AWG9 can keep track of the targets its irrelevant what they do. The AIM54 is guided with messages encoded in the radar transmission. Each Missile fired gets assigned a code during launch, that way the AWG9 can support all 6 missiles without changing transmission pattern. Once the AWG9 determines the AIM54 should be within pitbull range, it sends an seeker activation command, but continues to send the target data updates in case the missile looses track again. So as long as the AWG9 doesnt loose the track before pitbull, it doesnt matter what the targets do, since its just the normal TWS scan mode with probably PPM encoded messages. And tbh lower update rate can be an advantage here. Efficiency of snaking can very much reduced by limited update rate until pitbull. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?
turkeydriver Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 As long as the AWG9 can keep track of the targets its irrelevant what they do. The AIM54 is guided with messages encoded in the radar transmission. Each Missile fired gets assigned a code during launch, that way the AWG9 can support all 6 missiles without changing transmission pattern. Once the AWG9 determines the AIM54 should be within pitbull range, it sends an seeker activation command, but continues to send the target data updates in case the missile looses track again. So as long as the AWG9 doesnt loose the track before pitbull, it doesnt matter what the targets do, since its just the normal TWS scan mode with probably PPM encoded messages. And tbh lower update rate can be an advantage here. Efficiency of snaking can very much reduced by limited update rate until pitbull. excellent description- I cant rep it for some reason. But yeah- you only get a TWS pulse with missiles in the air headed your way. Only indication a shot occurred is theAIM-54 seeker activating at ~12nm. VF-2 Bounty Hunters https://www.csg-1.com/ DCS F-14 Pilot/RIO Discord: https://discord.gg/6bbthxk
VampireNZ Posted August 3, 2017 Posted August 3, 2017 Guys, kind of a random request - but could we please get the option of xxx increase and xxx decrease for control mapping for items with dials for example and radio freqs, bingo etc. This would allow us with button boxes to map these functions to a rotary encoder. I see some aircraft have quite a few for example the F-15, which is great. But I have noticed that the mirage for example doesn't have the option so very limited as to what you can map to your button box. Vampire
TAW_Blaze Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 AWG9 has 6 independent guidance channels which all can be used at the same time. Its in the same way a one way link incorporated into the radar signal as it is with el amraam. The digital computing component in the awg9 is much slower then the apg63. But the AWG9 also has shenanigans like manually tunable doppler filter etc.. So it depends a lot on modelling. Only source I know on gimbal limits I have says its very asymetrical aka -25/+55 elavation and +/-85 horizontal. if that is true thats going to complicate things quite a bit. Scanrate is 80deg/s. -25 deg elevation sounds like a bitch to use. +-85 horizontal on the other hand.. you could practically notch people while still guiding :D If the elevation is true I already see the inverted Cats flying around trying to find the tree huggers. :megalol:
captain_dalan Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 -25 deg elevation sounds like a bitch to use. +-85 horizontal on the other hand.. you could practically notch people while still guiding :D If the elevation is true I already see the inverted Cats flying around trying to find the tree huggers. :megalol: I think the vertical gimbal limit is actually symmetrical +/- 55 degrees. It is the vertical scan modes that are limited from -15 to +55 degrees. But, then again so is the maximum azimuth +/- 65 degrees. This isn't the gimbal limit though. Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache
OnlyforDCS Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Will there be a pre-order discount for the F14? (Once we get to preorders that is) Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
lunaticfringe Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 The cockpit gauge is +60°/-80°, which based on a couple of intercepts I've read, and had described to me, sounds legitimate in both directions, and conforms to materials I know I've seen, but can't for the life of me place right now. And as the AWG-9 defaults to -55° for ground mapping, the -25° value doesn't fit whatsoever.
Mking Posted August 8, 2017 Posted August 8, 2017 Status of the dream plane ? Greets System Hydro H115i with 8700k @ 4,9 ghz all cores, Asus strix Z370 f, 32gb ddr4 3600Mhz, Asusrog swift 34 gsync ,Vr hp Reverb .Palit gaming pro 2080 ti Thrustmaster Warthog f18grip and th pedal Steamvr ss 100% and dcs world ss 180% tomcat eats the viper for breakfast :P Lange lebe die Tomcat": Long live the Cat!
RaceFuel85 Posted August 8, 2017 Posted August 8, 2017 They've said they're in a 30 day "crunch period" aka all hands on deck. In particular Cobra has implied that they're going full tilt on the Tomcat at present, everything else is a secondary priority for the moment.
VampireNZ Posted August 8, 2017 Posted August 8, 2017 They've said they're in a 30 day "crunch period" aka all hands on deck. In particular Cobra has implied that they're going full tilt on the Tomcat at present, everything else is a secondary priority for the moment. Nice! Vampire
Donut Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 They've said they're in a 30 day "crunch period" aka all hands on deck. In particular Cobra has implied that they're going full tilt on the Tomcat at present, everything else is a secondary priority for the moment. Where and when did you see this interesting bit of information? i5 7600K @4.8GHz | 1080 Ti | 32GB 3200MHz | SSD | DCS SETTINGS | "COCKPIT"
RaceFuel85 Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 Where and when did you see this interesting bit of information?
BlackLion213 Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) They've said they're in a 30 day "crunch period" aka all hands on deck. In particular Cobra has implied that they're going full tilt on the Tomcat at present, everything else is a secondary priority for the moment. Cobra mentioned in a previous post that they were redoing the artwork and showed a plot from a laser-scanner on Facebook: The crunch is probably more about the new art assets than a possible release imho. I would still figure on late 2017 (December-ish) for early access, but this is just a guess. -Nick Edited August 10, 2017 by BlackLion213 fixed pics
Recommended Posts