battle tactics

[m1tp2king]

would like to know your type of battle tactics that you use.

I am just starting DCS black shark.

some one in another thread said he doesn't hover ever.

but how can I locate, classify and attack targets without hovering ?

and the manual says a still target is a dead target.

how can I locate, classify and attack targets if I am busy flying left to right ?

I need to point my nose straight at the target to engage !!

also when I try to use rockets, like the S-8 KOM, it's very, very difficult to hit the target. does any one else have this problem ? any advice ?

any info from you would be great.

Edited March 19, 2015 by m1tp2king

[Reaper6]

Hovering to engage a target depends a lot on the terrain. If there is a city or a hill to mask behind, popup attacks can be used. If it's flat terrain then you're pretty much stuck with continuously moving while engaging targets. If I am using hover to engage, I never shoot more than two Vikhr. The smoke trails give away your position to fast movers.

 

unguided rockets are the "go between" for vikhr and guns, usually 4-5km. They are also "area suppression" weapons, so if your looking to be more precise it's best to shoot them in short burst mode(one from each pod).

 

Reaper6

[BaD CrC]

Recon phase will require you to find a drop point far enough from the ennemy and/or protected from their possible fires using a hill or a building. From this point you will need to hover in order to detect and classify'your targets. If you are flying with other mates, try to find drop points offering different point of views and exchange your intelligence through datalink and abris.

Once the threats are all dtected and classifed, define the priority ones and agree for the plan of attack.

Then you can start your attack phase. If possible, try to stay out of the ennemy range and use the best suited weapon. The kamov is poorly protected, it is not a tank, and it can be shot down with a couple of ak47 guys if you fly low and slow enough above them.

Engage anti aircraft missile launchers from a protected battle position 7 km away using vikhrs.

You can close on zu23 or shilkas up to 4 km, but keep using vikhrs to shoot them on a stationary position. You can also fly to the target and fire rockets when reaching 4km, then break left or'right and release flares, assuming you want to save your vikhrs for more armored targets.

Tanks and bmps can be dangerous at 5 km. Always use vikhrs from a fixed position.

Manpads will engage you at around 3 km. You can use your gun if you feel confident or a couple of rockets. In that case, you can fly to the target at high speed, shoot and break left or right before getting too close while releasing flares.

Infantry will try to shoot at you from 1 km or less. Just avoid to hover above them.

In all cases, during the attack phase, it's always best to have a backup buddy 500 to 1km behind you watching your back and alerting you if something is shooting at you.

If you want to perform an attack run on a convoy for example, but you are unsure if all anti aircraft threats have been treated before, fly fast and change direction every 30 seconds.

[Raptor9]

+1 to the above posts.

 

That's why the Ka-50 is a rarity for being a single-pilot attack helo. Flying a helo down low, avoiding fire, trying to find the enemy, trying to kill the enemy. It's a full time job for two people for sure. However, the Ka-50 does have some systems designed to ease the workload, like autopilot and hold modes, automatic ingress to target, etc. It just takes practice and prioritizing your tasks.

 

The weapons that can be employed accurately from a hover are anything that's targeted with the Shkval: guided missiles and your gun (when used with the Skhval of course). If you're shooting anything else (rockets, gunpods, your 30mm 2A42 gun in fixed mode, etc) you should be in forward or diving flight if tactically feasible. The Ka-50 (and all helos) are much more stable when flying forward than hovering, meaning better weapons accuracy.

 

Regarding specific tactics, I base mine specifically on expected or observed threats. If the highest threat is AAA, heavy-machine gun or small arms, I'll push up in altitude and keep moving. I'll attack using forward or diving flight, and avoid getting to close.

 

If the main threat is armor, SAMs, or other high concentrations, I'll try to use terrain-masking and standoff as much to my advantage as possible. Over flat terrain, you're vulnerable like Reaper6 said since trees in DCS currently don't prevent AI from seeing and shooting at you. In this case, keep moving and keep your standoff range as much as possible. Always take out the enemy equipment that can reach out and touch you the soonest.

 

If you run out of Vikhrs, don't close with the enemy if they can shoot you down before you get close enough to employ rockets or guns! Go back to the FARP/airfield and get more missiles. Wingmen (especially human wingmen) are definitely force multipliers. They can watch you're back since you don't have good visibility in the Ka-50 and you have very little defensive gear.

 

Even with four helicopters, despite all your firepower, you will almost always be outnumbered and maybe even outgunned, so don't attack the enemy formations head on, or where most of their firepower is focused. Attack their flanks...if they shift or move, move your flight. You're in a helicopter, you're more maneuverable than anything on the ground, use that to your advantage. You can reposition yourself very rapidly on the battlefield.

 

Finally, due to your lack of defensive systems, think of the Ka-50 as an infantryman or a sniper. Move from cover to cover, never dash into an area you haven't reconed visually and/or with your Shkval. Identify your next battle position that has cover and good fields-of-fire before you move from you're current one. Never stay in one place too long, especially after you start shooting. Use wingmen to observe for enemy fire while you're moving to the next position. Always take out threats to YOU/YOUR FLIGHT before anything else; if you get shot down, your mission objectives are gonna fail anyway.

 

PS: Beware tanks like the M1, T-80 and T-90, besides the fact the -80 & -90 shoot advanced ATGM's, they all can blast you out of the sky from a good distance with their main tank guns when hovering or flying slow enough. Even the T-72 can do this, although from much shorter range. You get a laser warning...IMMEDIATELY start moving and change direction every few seconds.

 

PPS: Some of the European tanks are probably just as deadly, I've just never played any missions with them in it so I wouldn't know.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Raptor9

[jcbak]

"Finally, due to your lack of defensive systems, think of the Ka-50 as an infantryman or a sniper."

 

In many scenarios, that may be the best summation of tactics I've read..... It is very different than approaching an AO in fixed wing. It has been quite an adjustment for me.

[jcbak]

Very informative posts. Is there general agreement that there should be at least one wingman that sets up behind the rest of the flight to watch for threats? If so, is there a particular pattern or scan of the area that is executed? Are there particular tactics or strategies in setting up the remainder of the flight? I'm assuming you need to be able to watch and support each other. However, as stated previously, a lot of that depends on the type of cover that is or is not available. Maybe I'm over thinking this. Thinking is not my strong suit.

[Reaper6]

All you'll ever need to know about Attack Helicopter Tactics...

 

http://cdm16635.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16635coll8/id/55336

 

Reaper6

[Gorilla]

Thank you for the link Reaper6. Very generous. I will definitely read and read again.

 

Gorilla

[Rogue Trooper]

Nice document Reaper6.

Thanks for sharing.

[King_Hrothgar]

The advice from above posters is solid, but I'll add to it. One thing you should always try to do is to keep your eyes outside the cockpit. Never get fixated on the targeting camera or instruments. Given the single seat nature of the Ka-50, you are your own spotter. Spotting threats is first, shooting them is always second. To assist in that, map the HMS to your HOTAS or an easy to reach keyboard command. Use the HMS to get a rough lock on a target, only using the camera for fine tuning prior to launch.

 

Also, don't get too mixed up with the AP. The AP is there to help you, not hinder you. Route following is great for reaching the target area, but once there I strongly suggest switching to FD mode. This is almost manual control, featuring only some dampeners to smooth things out. In this mode, I use what I call drift hovering. It's not a true hover, instead I trim for a hover and then drift about at 20-50km/h. This method accomplishes two things. First, you aren't completely still and thus a harder target to hit. And second, all it takes to dodge a threat is a quick flick of the stick. You don't have to worry about shutting off the AP or fighting it. You are ready to go at near max agility already.

 

When it comes to engaging itself, always go for the longest range you can. As others have stated, the Ka-50 is an excellent aerial sniper. You can launch a Vikhr at lighlty armored targets (such as Shilka's) at up to 9km from a hover. You must override the system to do this, but it works fine. For heavy armor, try to fire from 5.5-7km. Within this range bracket, just about anything will be a 1 shot kill (M1 Abrams frontal armor being the exception). Do not come any closer than 5km unless all tanks and IFV's are destroyed.

 

Once all tanks, IFV's, SAMs (excluding manpads) and radar assisted AAA are dispatched, you can close to 3.5-4km for some cannon sniping against light armor and soft targets. Among those targets are manpads and those little AAA trucks and emplacements. Once again, I suggest the drifting method I described above. You don't want to be moving quickly as this will throw off your aim. But you must also be ready to evade a manpad in an instant. On that note, pop a pair of flares every few seconds when at these closer ranges. Do so even if you don't see any launches. You have tons of flares, you won't see every missile fired. So just assume someone is trying to launch one at you at all times. Also, manpads will often lock onto the flare instead of you before they even launch. It's always funny watching them fly at a flare you fired 5s ago.

 

Oh, one last thing about survivability. In the campaign missions it is helpful to stay over friendly lines when attacking. Obviously your guys aren't going to shoot you, so you need not worry about ground fire. They will also attack any enemy aircraft that come into their range. They may not shoot them down, but a whole bunch of friendly tracers flying up into the air is a pretty good warning system.

Edited March 26, 2015 by King_Hrothgar

[Raptor9]

...Also, don't get too mixed up with the AP. The AP is there to help you, not hinder you. Route following is great for reaching the target area, but once there I strongly suggest switching to FD mode. This is almost manual control, featuring only some dampeners to smooth things out...

 

Agree, I only momentarily tap off the FD when I'm completely heads down for a few seconds in the Shkval. And if I'm shooting rockets, not only do I make sure FD is on, I try to get as trimmed as possible so I'm not fighting the spring in my joystick. Rockets are predominantly area targets, but with practice, you can get some decent shot placement with proper ranging.

 

...They may not shoot them down, but a whole bunch of friendly tracers flying up into the air is a pretty good warning system.

 

:D Ha ha.

[arkroyale048]

Reiteration:

 

The above mentioned posts are solid. Especially the part that says the Ka-50 is (and should be utilised more as) a sniper.

 

In fact if anything goes by the stats that I have on the 51st server. Nearly 99% of my targets killed are done via vikhrs.

 

 

Disclaimer:

 

Please bear with me for the moment as I now offer a perspective based on being a Ka-50 operator not as the real world application would have it but as an operator who only operates within the game. Owing to the nature of ground unit AI in DCS; this has helped shaped my flying style in DCS. Hence, I do not claim to know more or insist that my style is better; only that this is what works for me, this is my preference and that it works for me.

 

 

My flying style and battle tactics.

 

As mentioned above, the Ka-50 is an excellent sniper. Hence I utilise it as such. If there's anything in the target area that has a laser range finder or an IR seeker that is still alive. I would elect to just RTB and rearm instead of closing in with guns or rockets. In fact, I normally just leave my inner pylons empty just to save weight. The only times I would carry rockets is when I'm using smoke rockets if I have fixed wing CAS support.

 

Some may find my flying style boring as essentially it is fly in, find a nice spot, loose all your vikhrs, go home, rinse and repeat. To me however it works, it gets the job done. As someone who livestreams my gameplay; this makes for boring footages. To me however, I'm more of a stickler for getting the Ka-50 back home in one piece. In fact, to me a perfect Ka-50 mission is one where you plan properly such that your LWS does not even go off. A passing-grade mission is that if you do have your LWS go off then at least bring the bird back in one piece. I scoff at those who get shot down because they run in one guns or rockets when they expend their vikhrs :P (please bear with me on this).

 

That doesn't mean however that I don't use guns or explosive rockets. I do when I am absolutely sure that there are no more targets in there with laser range finders and IR seekers. As to me those are the things that threaten my existence.

 

 

How then do I achieve this:

 

Information is your best weapon. Read the briefings. Know which waypoint corresponds to what. Have intel on the enemy positions. Most servers have preplaced targets that are usually out in the open. Rare is the server (and this is what I yearn for) where the mission planner actually embeds those targets inside a city with plenty of cover.

 

Approach with caution. At about 10 kliks out and assuming you are assured that there are no long range SAMs; find a good vantage point where you can survey the target area. Find a good approach and that sweet shooting spot and approach as per normal. Ripple of those vikhrs and go back to rearm once you've expended them. From this point onward; you can just simply double back to the same shooting spot and keep on blasting away for as long as you are still interested :P

 

Finally, as a safety measure. Have a 'bug-out' bearing. This is what I do upon taking off and have pointed my aircraft towards the target area. Look at the HSI and see the bearing towards your FARP as you are going towards the target. That bearing is what I call the 'bug-out' bearing. If I find myself damaged (specially with a broken ABRIS) then I can just roughly fly in the direction of my bug-out bearing and hope to spot the FARP. In addition; just in the event that even the HSI and your compass is broke. When you start your mission; take note what time of day it is, then take note of where the sun is. Say, I have the sun on the right when I head for the target area; that must mean that if I put the sun on the left then it's a rough heading back to base. It's the small things that makes immersion fun. :)

 

 

 

I apologise for the long text. I would just want to contribute in a small way towards somebody else's Ka-50 experience.

 

 

 

TLDR

 

It's all about your personal style. Learn from others but in the end, it is you that cultivates what works for you.

[jcbak]

Thank you, Reaper

[Raptor9]

...Rare is the server (and this is what I yearn for) where the mission planner actually embeds those targets inside a city with plenty of cover...

 

Sounds like you'd enjoy my COIN (counter-insurgency) mission map. It covers an area approximately 170x120km and randomly spawns targets at mission start. I'd say about 95% of all the enemy units are in some kind of urban environment. Most of them are in small camps or villages, but some are in decent-sized towns, and at least one heavily defended city. The area runs from Mineralnye Vody to northern Georgia (same area as the "Deployment" campaign) and gradually gets more hostile as you head south.

 

If I make a conventional army vs army type mission, I'll try to avoid built up areas since most militaries in the faction list (especially militaries operating in their own country) will want to avoid civilian casualties and infrastructure destruction. Any of my insurgency style missions however, it's fair game and the main tactic to avoid the airpower.

[arkroyale048]

^

 

I would also like a conventional army vs army type mission but still would be positioned in and around an urban area. If you play Wargame: AirLand Battle or Red Dragon. You conceal units that way.

[karambiatos]

^

 

I would also like a conventional army vs army type mission but still would be positioned in and around an urban area. If you play Wargame: AirLand Battle or Red Dragon. You conceal units that way.

159th units are in towns in almost every mission :music_whistling:

[arkroyale048]

^

 

To my eternal delight upon discovery :D

[DarkFire]

Also, don't get too mixed up with the AP. The AP is there to help you, not hinder you. Route following is great for reaching the target area, but once there I strongly suggest switching to FD mode. This is almost manual control, featuring only some dampeners to smooth things out. In this mode, I use what I call drift hovering. It's not a true hover, instead I trim for a hover and then drift about at 20-50km/h. This method accomplishes two things. First, you aren't completely still and thus a harder target to hit. And second, all it takes to dodge a threat is a quick flick of the stick. You don't have to worry about shutting off the AP or fighting it. You are ready to go at near max agility already.

 

As an absolutely brand-new, day-1 Ka-50 pilot, what's FD mode?

[rcjonessnp175]

Very good knowledge guys. Will also chime in, Sniper methodology is my key to success. Makes sense as thats something i know very well and this air platform and weaponry are big. Recon and violence of action. Use the vikhrs with standoff then move close to bloody nose territory and execute with the 30mm its very accurate for what it is. With anything its situation dependent and mission dependent but prioritize your tgts thus allowing you to close the distance with rockets and guns.

Be interesting to fly that coin mission sometime.

[Reaper6]

As an absolutely brand-new, day-1 Ka-50 pilot, what's FD mode?

 

Flight Director... Tells you where to go vs. takes you there.

[King_Hrothgar]

As an absolutely brand-new, day-1 Ka-50 pilot, what's FD mode?

 

There are 5 main autopilot options: pitch, roll, yaw, altitude and flight director (FD). Without FD, each channel will hold it's respective characteristic as best it can. With FD on, the activated channels stop doing this and instead enter a stabilization mode instead. It's difficult to describe the effect beyond that, so just try it for yourself. Switch the autopilot off completely for a bit and then switch pitch, roll and yaw on with FD. It's still manual control, but she's much more docile.

[DarkFire]

There are 5 main autopilot options: pitch, roll, yaw, altitude and flight director (FD). Without FD, each channel will hold it's respective characteristic as best it can. With FD on, the activated channels stop doing this and instead enter a stabilization mode instead. It's difficult to describe the effect beyond that, so just try it for yourself. Switch the autopilot off completely for a bit and then switch pitch, roll and yaw on with FD. It's still manual control, but she's much more docile.

 

Ah, OK, thanks I'll give that a try. At present I'm still at the "bloody hell this thing is trying to kill me!!!" stage so hopefully that might help :joystick:

[Raptor9]

This is how I think of it:

 

- When you turn on the Pitch, Roll, and Yaw channels it turns on the SAS and it will also attempt to hold those pitch, roll, and yaw values whenever the trimmer is released. You can of course push beyond the SAS control authority but you'll be fighting the computer slightly.

 

- When you turn on FD/Flight Director, you're in effect blocking the hold mode function of the SAS channels, and the SAS won't be fighting you, but it will still keep the aircraft stable.

 

- No matter whether you have the FD on or off, you can still use the trimmer to keep the aircraft steady. The difference is, when the FD is off, whenever you release the trimmer, the pitch/roll/yaw channels will try to hold the current attitude values at the moment of trimmer release.

 

- Altitude hold works similarly, but the collective brake is the "trimmer" that assigns the new altitude value.

[jcbak]

If you are struggling, one thing to check is to be sure your joystick is properly calibrated. If your stick is off slightly, the trim system will respond as though you are inputting control when you aren't. You can guess how I found that out.

[Isegrim]

If you are struggling, one thing to check is to be sure your joystick is properly calibrated. If your stick is off slightly, the trim system will respond as though you are inputting control when you aren't. You can guess how I found that out.

 

You should not use central positon trimmer mode.

As you have written if your controls are not 100% centered the AP will not respond to your inputs after you have pressed Trimm caused by iregular / unintended inputs.