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'Beta' Products For Sale?


Aviar
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I'm new here so I was wondering about something. I noticed that some of the products for sale (F-86F, MiG-15bis, etc.) are listed as 'beta'. I'm no genius but I know that 'beta' does not mean 'final'.

 

I did not see any explanation of why these products were still in beta. Are these items still in development? If so, is there a page I can visit to see the current progress?

 

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Those two products are from a 3rd party developer called Belsimtek. They are very poor at communicating with the community so it's difficult to tell exactly what they're working on. There are some incomplete subsystems, no manual, no missions, and no campaign. There is no timeline for when these features will be developed. But given their track record, I would not hold my breath. They are very flyable planes, but still in development.

 

If you're new and thinking about buying one of the "beta" products,I would stir clear of it. You can get a much better experience with complete modules like Flaming Cliffs 3, A-10C, Blackshark, and the Mig-21.

 

I only own two products, the UH-1h Huey and the Mig-21 (which I bought this week!). Both are amazing and very fun to learn.

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Fair enough. Personally, I am more interested in the Korean-era jets.

 

If what skendzie said about Belsimtek is accurate, it's not unusual. However, strictly as a consumer, I'm wondering about Eagle Dynamics' official word on this subject.

 

After all, they are charging a hefty amount for these products. Is there no specific information as to just what a person may be purchasing? (Possibly a list of incomplete features still in development.) Am I being unreasonable to even post such a question? Maybe the information is listed somewhere on this site?

 

I do have a question for players who have purchased one or more of these 'beta' Korean-era jets. After purchasing your 'beta' product, were you ever informed of an update/patch for your particular product?

 

Basically, I'm concerned about how long these products have been listed as 'beta' and how I can find out if they are still in active development or possibly in 'beta' limbo.

 

To be fair, I'm not saying I wouldn't purchase a 'beta' product. I'm just particular about knowing exactly what I'm buying.

 

Aviar

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I bought the Huey, Mi-8 and the F-86 from Belsimtek. They are all great aircraft to fly and I am generally quite happy about the quality. The beta phase of each was or is quite long, but they were very fun to fly right from the beginning. Yes, the first weeks or months are sometimes a bit rough - because they have to "mature" - but that is to be expected and not unusual imo. The products got regular updates (in DCS terms, which can be 1-2 months in-between). The Mi-8 is a bit of a step child here, though - that is at least how I percieve it. I would have expected some better progress over time. That and the delay of the release of the english manual is something I hold against BST - which is sad because, as I already said, their aircraft are immensely fun to fly.

Personally I am now a bit worried about the manual for the F-86 and the MiG-15. Again, the Sabre is great fun and also the technical quality is good, but if there were no RL manual available, I probably would not have purchased it due to the lack of a DCS manual until now. Same is true for the MiG-15 for me: without a proper manual, in a cockpit where I can't read anything, I am not willing to "study sim". I bet, the MiG is also great to fly, but, well, "lessons learned" from the Mi-8 experience.

 

To be fair, DCS is at the verge to a new era, so to speak. The coming update of DCS World to version 2 brings many changes, externally for us to see (keyword "EDGE"), but also under the hood. These upcoming changes are seemingly affecting the current (beta) modules when it comes to implementing missing features or bug fixes. I've heared from several 3rd party devs that they are preparing their products for DCS2 and that they basically would have to do it twice if they had to do it for DCS1 in parallel. So they try to avoid it, if possible. That could explain why some of the progress of some modules is a bit slow atm. But this is just my personal interpretation - I wished, this would be communicated more openly if it is the case.

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Agreed Flagrum, I am sure the hiatus is due to the impending release of DCS World 2.0.

 

I'd also like to say that the current state of both the F-86 and MiG-15 is no impediment to buying them. They are fundamentally uncomplex aircraft, having no advanced computerised avionics, so the lack of a manual - and the availablility of real world manuals - doesn't matter a great deal.

 

I would however like to see some campaign and mission effort from Belsimtek, and a vast improvement in their PR.

 

Would you be wise not to buy the F-86 or MiG-15Bis? No, they are very very good modules, even though they are incomplete at this stage.

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I do have a question for players who have purchased one or more of these 'beta' Korean-era jets. After purchasing your 'beta' product, were you ever informed of an update/patch for your particular product?

 

each patch comes with a changelog posting on the forum, so you get all information there.

 

To be fair, I'm not saying I wouldn't purchase a 'beta' product. I'm just particular about knowing exactly what I'm buying.

 

Aviar

 

thats the correct attitude, ask before you buy, other buy and then complain, wrong way, hehe.

 

regards,

RR

 

PS:

i bought the huey when it was released in beta, and it was quite nice to see the evolution of this helo since then, the finetuning, etc.

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What Eagle Dynamics describes as Beta, many other software developers would push out as final release. I'd also like to point out you may be waiting several months for a product to come out of Beta only for them to add a few small details to coincide with the next DCS World update. From my own experience, every module released (Combined Arms aside), does in the end become something very complete and fine tuned.

 

In short, I wouldn't let the Beta tag put you off when it comes to DCS modules.

 

Also, whilst manuals are no doubt important, you'll nearly always find plenty of YouTube videos posted by the devs and community explaining the various systems in detail.

 

Welcome to DCS :)

 

Just noticed your join date -you're not that new!


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I agree that Belsimtek PR is really bad, and I hope they are working on updates/bugs on their products to be released with DCS 2.0. I purchased the F-86 when it was released and they have released some fixes with the previous updates, but I have put my Pay Pal account on hold until DCS 2.0 is released, hopefully, before the F-18, P-47, and the Spitfire are ready for release.

 

 

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I do have a question for players who have purchased one or more of these 'beta' Korean-era jets. After purchasing your 'beta' product, were you ever informed of an update/patch for your particular product?

 

Basically, I'm concerned about how long these products have been listed as 'beta' and how I can find out if they are still in active development or possibly in 'beta' limbo.

 

To be fair, I'm not saying I wouldn't purchase a 'beta' product. I'm just particular about knowing exactly what I'm buying.

 

Aviar

 

I have both planes.

 

1) Patch notes for the two aircraft are included in the DCS World patch notes. The most recent patch, released on the 10th of March, had a number of changes to both aircraft:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=140468

 

That and the DCS newsletters is most of the information we get about the development progress or goals.

 

2) The Sabre was released as beta on 07-25-2014, the MiG-15 on 02-25-2015. As you can see from the patch notes, both products are still being supported and developed - though some people are arguing it's happening too slowly or in a manner that's not transparent enough. That's a highly subjective thing and I'll just leave it for you to judge.

 

3) Main things that you might want to consider:

 

Both aircraft are very much playable at the moment and relatively bug-free. There are no campaigns however, the MiG doesn't even have single missions at the moment. You'd have to do with the Mission Editor and/or community created content. There are few period appropriate units and we don't know if or when a Korean War map would be developed. There are Quick Start manuals available, but both of the full manuals are still in production. There are tutorial videos and user created docs available, and both aircraft are simple enough - I had no trouble learning the Sabre or the MiG, but your mileage may vary.

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The Mig15 and Sabre are my favourite pair at the moment. I've not come across any game-breaking bugs in either and as a first foray into the payware DCS modules either makes a good buy.

 

As to lack of single player content I'd not worry about that. Plenty of fun in multiplayer and there are a few non-combat servers with Teamspeak channels to help you learn the basics of either aircraft.

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The Mig15 and Sabre are my favourite pair at the moment. I've not come across any game-breaking bugs in either and as a first foray into the payware DCS modules either makes a good buy.

 

As to lack of single player content I'd not worry about that. Plenty of fun in multiplayer and there are a few non-combat servers with Teamspeak channels to help you learn the basics of either aircraft.

 

I would just like to add that the main reason for the lack of a campaign is probably the wait for EDGE and DCS World 2.0.

 

Why make a completely unrealistic campaign for two Korea era planes and place it in modern-day Georgia, when the tools to create new maps are just around the corner.

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I would just like to add that the main reason for the lack of a campaign is probably the wait for EDGE and DCS World 2.0.

 

Why make a completely unrealistic campaign for two Korea era planes and place it in modern-day Georgia, when the tools to create new maps are just around the corner.

 

There are some "completely unrealistic" campaigns for the A-10C that are a lot of fun ;) I don't think its a matter of waiting on the Map tools, more likely they are waiting for the aircraft to be more polished before putting the effort into a campaign right now.

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I bought the Huey and Mi-8 from Belsimtek while they were in Beta. Did not encounter any problems, and each came with an excellent campaign that I thoroughly enjoyed. I would certainly recommend either of those if you enjoy flying helicopters.

 

Note that it's a totally different experience than the Black Shark... no autopilot to help!

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Also depends on the developer's personnel resources.

 

It's worth remembering that the skills needed to make a high fidelity aircraft for DCS are for the most part not the same skills needed to produce high quality missions and campaigns.

 

 

If a software developer is going to hire someone who has the skills for mission building, it's nice to have some idea of how to generate the revenue needed to pay that person's salary.

 

Now that there's a system for paid downloadable missions and campaigns it may be easier for the various developers to justify spending work hours on that sort of stuff now.

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I combine the two by predictably boring large holes in the ground with my plane.

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F-86 for $15.00 on sale! What are you waiting for. TBH the F-86 isn't a very complicated jet and you can learn pretty much all you will ever need from a few youtube vids. You need a manual out the door for the A-10 and BS but its not a game breaking feature on a F-86 or WWII plane. Like others have said ... alot seems to be waiting on EDGE but you can still enjoy yourself in the Korean Era Jets.

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F-86 for $15.00 on sale! What are you waiting for. TBH the F-86 isn't a very complicated jet and you can learn pretty much all you will ever need from a few youtube vids. You need a manual out the door for the A-10 and BS but its not a game breaking feature on a F-86 or WWII plane. Like others have said ... alot seems to be waiting on EDGE but you can still enjoy yourself in the Korean Era Jets.

 

 

Are you sure? It says $49.99 on my screen.

 

Aviar

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http://store.steampowered.com/app/306240/

 

Steam version has Starforce DRM....:mad:

 

Aviar

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A lot of excellent posts here. I learned a great deal. Thanks to everyone!

 

Aviar

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Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard

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Logitech G13 Gameboard

GoFlight GF-T8 Module

WIN 8.1

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