F14A vs F14B?

[ThorBrasil]

1-Because launching two models?

2-What are the differences?

3-If the F14B has the more powerful engine. Why launch the F14A?

 

Sorry my inglês. :D

[98abaile]

I just assumed it was going to be the A+ which as I understand it was later renamed the B.

[joey45]

Thougth the B's were new airframes.

[Hummingbird]

We're getting three versions (EDIT: Two versions more correctly, as the A+ & B are the same), the A, A+ & B version.

 

"The F-14 received its first of many major upgrades in March 1987 with the F-14A Plus (or F-14A+). The F-14A's P&W TF30 engine was replaced with the improved GE F110-GE400 engine. The F-14A+ also received the state-of-the-art ALR-67 Radar Homing and Warning (RHAW) system. Much of the avionics as well as the AWG-9 radar were retained. The F-14A+ was later redesignated F-14B on 1 May 1991. A total of 38 new aircraft were manufactured and 48 F-14A were upgraded into B variants.

 

The TF30 had been plagued from the start with susceptibility to compressor stalls at high AoA and during rapid throttle transients or above 30,000 ft (9,100 m). The F110-GE400 engine provided a significant increase in thrust, producing 30,200 lbf (134 kN) with afterburner at sea level. The increased thrust gave the Tomcat a better than 1:1 thrust-to-weight ratio at low fuel quantities. The basic engine thrust without afterburner was powerful enough for carrier launches, further increasing safety. Another benefit was allowing the Tomcat to cruise comfortably above 30,000 ft (9,100 m), which increased its range and survivability. The F-14B arrived in time to participate in Desert Storm."

Edited May 2, 2015 by Hummingbird

[Exorcet]

If the F14B has the more powerful engine. Why launch the F14A?

So people can enjoy the inferior early model. I don't see why the availability of the B makes the A redundant, using a less capable machine is still fun.

[King_Hrothgar]

That's only two versions as the A+ and the B are the same thing, it was a naming system change. In any case, I would assume the reasoning is that making those two specific versions adds only a small amount of overall work to the project while also opening up a lot more mission possibilities. I'm glad they did it that way and if they hadn't, I would have preferred the F-14A rather than the B. Why? The F-14A was exported and saw extensive air to air combat. The F-14B sat around and looked pretty for 20 years without doing much else.

 

How close are the two from a video game standpoint? To turn an F-14A into an F-14B, add an RWR screen and move a handful of switches to make it fit. Then alter the various engine values to match the new engines. The rest of the flight model, damage model, systems model and so on should be identical or nearly identical. You might break your ctrl, c and v keys making it, but it isn't a terribly cerebral task.

[Dudikoff]

To turn an F-14A into an F-14B, add an RWR screen and move a handful of switches to make it fit.

 

IIRC, this separate indicator was added when the RWR was upgraded to AN/ALR-67 later on and not on all B's so this is not necessarily required (depending on the specific Block and timeframe of the B variant they choose to represent)..

[Hummingbird]

That's only two versions as the A+ and the B are the same thing, it was a naming system change. In any case, I would assume the reasoning is that making those two specific versions adds only a small amount of overall work to the project while also opening up a lot more mission possibilities. I'm glad they did it that way and if they hadn't, I would have preferred the F-14A rather than the B. Why? The F-14A was exported and saw extensive air to air combat. The F-14B sat around and looked pretty for 20 years without doing much else.

 

How close are the two from a video game standpoint? To turn an F-14A into an F-14B, add an RWR screen and move a handful of switches to make it fit. Then alter the various engine values to match the new engines. The rest of the flight model, damage model, systems model and so on should be identical or nearly identical. You might break your ctrl, c and v keys making it, but it isn't a terribly cerebral task.

 

Correcto mundo.

[SkateZilla]

It's not a quick "More this, remove these, adjust engine values, done"

 

there are some structural changes to the airframe

 

The F-14A and F-14A+/B have distinctly different flying styles due to the engines.

 

TF30 Engines had different Exhaust Nozzles and was Longer than the F110.

 

there were changes to the DFCS in the B to reflect the new engine.

 

Changing the engine alone will need several changes in the AFM Engine block alone.

 

 

 

 

 

and the only reason,

Make a IIAF Skin for the -14A :), then put USN -14Bs up against it :)

[SilentGun]

im guessing they want to give us an A model because It will give a rival for the MiG-21

[PiedDroit]

If the F14B has the more powerful engine. Why launch the F14A?

Historical accuracy is a reason good enough IMO.

For the same reason people want to fly inferior versions of MiG-21's, P-47's, etc.

And also Top Gun :megalol:

[Quent]

im guessing they want to give us an A model because It will give a rival for the MiG-21

 

Well, not really. The F-14, even in its A version is a fourth generation fighter and it is way more capable, versatile and agile than the MiG-21 (in all its variants).

 

It is a fleet defender, a MiG-21 would have no chance against a Tomcat piloted by someone with knowledge. From a distance of 180km the Tomcat would be able to shoot down a MiG-21 thanks to the AIM-54 Phoenix weapon system that it carries.

 

In other words, the MiG-21 is outclassed on every aspect, whether it be its radar capability, load or range capacity.

[xaoslaad]

There were somewhere around 712 F-14's in total. 86 were B's. About 55 were F-14D's whether D or D®.

 

Just looking at the math it's easy to see the A was the most pervasive model in the fleet. There were only 3 deployable squadrons of F-14D's, and due to the limited number of aircraft they actually rolled one back to B's. Looking at the D's I'm guessing somewhere in the 3-5 range. All others would have been A's....

 

Besides you can't be Tom Cruise in a B and kill Goose.

 

"As the F-14D was produced in such limited numbers, new builds only numbering 37 while 18 F-14A's were converted to F-14D's (known as F-14D®), there have been problems keeping the three deployable squadrons, the RAG and the various test units (VX-9, PMTC) up to strength. Thus in mid 1996 it was decided that VF-11 would convert back to the F-14B and shift to join VF-143 as part of CVW-7. VF-11 has now completed this process and is active at NAS Oceana with F-14B's (in the process becoming the only F-14 squadron to have operated all 3 variants of the Tomcat), its first cruise as part of CVW-7 is scheduled for 1998, assuming present plans remain unchanged."

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Did glove vanes get removed for the B model, or are they present on both?

[Slipp]

B has LGB capability, doesn't it?

[xaoslaad]

Found this quote:

A feature on the F-14A, which has, since been phased out of the B and D models is a pair of triangular vanes, which retracted into the leading edge of the wing gloves. These vanes deployed automatically at Mach 1.4, providing extra lift to the nose of the aircraft, unloading the tailplanes to some degree. As a result, they assisted the F-14 in pulling up to 7.5 g at Mach 2. The vanes were rendered inoperative if the angle of the wings were less than 35 degrees. Below that sweep angle, the effect of the vanes on the tailplanes led to pitch instability at the speeds associated with that angle of wing. With the B and D models these vanes were eliminated from the design in order to provide additional space for avionics in the wing-glove area.

[xaoslaad]

B has LGB capability, doesn't it?

 

Depends. It has to be an F-14B Upgrade and have the semi permanent LANTIRN pod attached. There were F-14A Upgrades with the pod attached as well as I understand it, so ground attack doesn't necessarily have to be limited to the F-14B.

 

There were only 80 some odd B's so having 157 bombcats implies some must have been A's. Even if you counted all the D's (which aren't involved in these numbers.) you'd still have to drag in A's to account for the number.

 

"The A/B initial upgrade, includes structural modifications to extend the F-14's fatigue life to 7,500 hours, improved defensive capabilities and cockpit displays, and incorporation of digital architecture and mission computers to speed data processing time and add software capacity.

Block I adds a LANTIRN Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) pod with a built-in laser to designate targets and allow F-14s to independently drop laser guided bombs (LGBs), a modified cockpit for night attack operations (night vision devices and compatible lighting), and enhanced defensive countermeasures. The A/B upgrade had to be incorporated into 157 F-14 aircraft before the Block I upgrade could be added. "

 

I believe there were F-14A/B/D bombcats and non-bombcat F-14A's and Bs.

 

And:

"The pod also featured an internal computer with ballistics data for the various precision munitions carried by the F-14. Data is fed to the pod by the Tomcat’s AWG-9 (F-14A and F-14B) and AN/APG-71 (F-14D) radar, but the LTS in turn only sends video and guidance symbology to the crew's cockpit displays. This means that few wiring and software changes had to be made to the Tomcat in order for it to operate the LTS. All pod controls are in the RIO’s cockpit, but the bomb release button is situated with the pilot. The LTS had a price tag of around 3 million US Dollars each and due to these high costs, only 75 were bought for fleet use. Typically, an F-14 squadron brought 6 to 8 pods with them on deployment, which would be permanently fitted to the non-TARPS jets."

Edited May 2, 2015 by xaoslaad

[BlackLion213]

There were somewhere around 712 F-14's in total. 86 were B's. About 55 were F-14D's whether D or D®.

 

Just looking at the math it's easy to see the A was the most pervasive model in the fleet. There were only 3 deployable squadrons of F-14D's, and due to the limited number of aircraft they actually rolled one back to B's. Looking at the D's I'm guessing somewhere in the 3-5 range. All others would have been A's....

 

Besides you can't be Tom Cruise in a B and kill Goose.

 

"As the F-14D was produced in such limited numbers, new builds only numbering 37 while 18 F-14A's were converted to F-14D's (known as F-14D®), there have been problems keeping the three deployable squadrons, the RAG and the various test units (VX-9, PMTC) up to strength. Thus in mid 1996 it was decided that VF-11 would convert back to the F-14B and shift to join VF-143 as part of CVW-7. VF-11 has now completed this process and is active at NAS Oceana with F-14B's (in the process becoming the only F-14 squadron to have operated all 3 variants of the Tomcat), its first cruise as part of CVW-7 is scheduled for 1998, assuming present plans remain unchanged."

 

There were actually more F-14B's as many A's were re-manufactured. The total number is around 250 I believe. Also, the VF-11 was the squadron that transitioned to the F-14B from the F-14D, it had to do with it's relocation back to the East Coast and general shuffling of air wings. This allowed VF-213 to transition to the F-14D. In the mid-90s, the USN decided that Pacific squadrons would operate the F-14A and F-14D while East Coast squadrons would operate the F-14B (with 2 squadrons, IIRC, still with the F-14A due to a shortage of B's). There were 3 F-14D squadrons operational from 1993-2003 (when VF-2 transitioned to the Rhino).

 

But you're right, the F-14A was the most common model by a wide margin, though re-engined Tomcat's were the majority by the late 1990s.

 

I am thrilled that LNS is doing both, but I'm looking forward to the F-14A a bit more. Part of this is nostalgia, the F-14A was the version I saw pictures of growing up and the one model that showed up to the airshows (till the late 90s in my case).

 

Plus, the F-14A is a bit like a Shakespearean protagonist, incredibly capable, but with a (potentially) fatal flaw. This makes it much more interesting to operate in a Sim environment and will keep it entertaining for longer. If you want to win at ACM against F-15s and F/A-18s, the F-14B is the way to go (though you certainly can win with the F-14A if you fly it right). But for challenge and entertainment - the F-14A will probably offer more.

 

LNS made a really good choice on this issue.

 

-Nick

[BlackLion213]

It's not a quick "More this, remove these, adjust engine values, done"

 

there are some structural changes to the airframe

 

The F-14A and F-14A+/B have distinctly different flying styles due to the engines.

 

TF30 Engines had different Exhaust Nozzles and was Longer than the F110.

 

there were changes to the DFCS in the B to reflect the new engine.

 

Changing the engine alone will need several changes in the AFM Engine block alone.

 

There were some DFCS differences, but DFCS wasn't integrated into the fleet until the late 1990s. The LNS F-14B is late-80s/early-mid-90s based on their renders. During this period, there were no flight control differences between the F-14A and F-14B (A+), there were a few computer changes since the F110 had a digital engine management system while the TF30 was analog. Otherwise, their control system and aerodynamic properties were essentially the same.

 

That said, just changing the engine parameters is an over-simplification. But the F-14A and F-14B are probably the two most similar US aircraft that actually had different names.

 

-Nick

[turkeydriver]

There were actually more F-14B's as many A's were re-manufactured. The total number is around 250 I believe. Also, the VF-11 was the squadron that transitioned to the F-14B from the F-14D, it had to do with it's relocation back to the East Coast and general shuffling of air wings. This allowed VF-213 to transition to the F-14D. In the mid-90s, the USN decided that Pacific squadrons would operate the F-14A and F-14D while East Coast squadrons would operate the F-14B (with 2 squadrons, IIRC, still with the F-14A due to a shortage of B's). There were 3 F-14D squadrons operational from 1993-2003 (when VF-2 transitioned to the Rhino).

 

But you're right, the F-14A was the most common model by a wide margin, though re-engined Tomcat's were the majority by the late 1990s.

 

I am thrilled that LNS is doing both, but I'm looking forward to the F-14A a bit more. Part of this is nostalgia, the F-14A was the version I saw pictures of growing up and the one model that showed up to the airshows (till the late 90s in my case).

 

Plus, the F-14A is a bit like a Shakespearean protagonist, incredibly capable, but with a (potentially) fatal flaw. This makes it much more interesting to operate in a Sim environment and will keep it entertaining for longer. If you want to win at ACM against F-15s and F/A-18s, the F-14B is the way to go (though you certainly can win with the F-14A if you fly it right). But for challenge and entertainment - the F-14A will probably offer more.

 

LNS made a really good choice on this issue.

 

-Nick

 

There were never anything close to 250 F-14Bs, they outnumbered the D but they weren't more than 90ish, never reaching 100 F-14Bs. Planned to have many more before the drastic cutbacks and super Hornet decision in the early 90s. B's had their shortages too, which is why VF-211 had to revert to the A model from the mid 1990s until retirement.

[BlackLion213]

There were never anything close to 250 F-14Bs, they outnumbered the D but they weren't more than 90ish, never reaching 100 F-14Bs. Planned to have many more before the drastic cutbacks and super Hornet decision in the early 90s. B's had their shortages too, which is why VF-211 had to revert to the A model from the mid 1990s until retirement.

 

Yeah, your right. Sorry about that!

 

My reference had a large number of planned re-manufactured aircraft that was cancelled after 1992.

 

Also, with the force reduction program of the early 90s (disestablishment of many squadrons), the total number of operational aircraft fell to around 200 or so (which may be where my number came from).

 

There were only 14 operational fleet squadrons after 1995 with ~12-14 aircraft per squadron plus a larger number at VF-101 and a few more in test squadrons/aggressor squadrons.

 

Still, among fleet squadrons, the F-14B/D was the majority after 1995.

 

-Nick

Edited May 3, 2015 by BlackLion213

[Home Fries]

I imagine that if they are doing 3 "variants", it's more of a timeframe and minor capabilities issue between the A+ and B. The only difference between the two is the name (they renamed A+ to B for political reasons, not design change), but the time of the A+ was pre-Desert Storm and before major squadron decommissioning and realignment (e.g. Jolly Rogers were still VF-84 and VF-103 was still the Sluggers).

 

One possibility I could think is that LN could make the A+ an air to air platform with TARPS, which was on its way out in the late 80s/early 90s, while making the B PGM capable (which involves adding LANTIRN capability and updating the RIO cockpit).

Edited June 5, 2015 by Home Fries

[captain_dalan]

3-If the F14B has the more powerful engine. Why launch the F14A?

 

Sorry my inglês. :D

Cause i for one, would actually prefer flying it. If we go by performance logic alone, all WW2 sims should involve nothing but Mustangs and 262?

Edited June 6, 2015 by captain_dalan

[ff4life4]

Depending on the block of A they make, it may also have no Aileron Rudder Interconnect (ARI) which would mean Yaw control would be much more difficult, especially on landing

[BlackLion213]

Depending on the block of A they make, it may also have no Aileron Rudder Interconnect (ARI) which would mean Yaw control would be much more difficult, especially on landing

 

Yes, she'll be a handful on landing! :D

 

Especially the F-14A: laggy engines that stall if you advance the throttle too fast, heavy airframe with a lot of inertia, dutch roll that counters correction for line-up, and a target speed between 125-130 knots (where the aircraft gets pretty ornery). Then throw in landing on a boat that requires far more precision than our usual runway landings...awesome!

 

I love the challenge of things like this. Going to be endless fun. The best sim airplanes are those that are demanding to fly and operate - takes along time to get good and therefore, it takes a while to get bored with it.

 

With the carrier ops, it would be great (and really helpful) in either ED or LNS creates an IFLOLs trailer for NTTR or Black Sea (actually better for black sea since it's at sea level or near it). So we can practice "flying the ball" and learn the carrier pattern before actually going to the boat. With the Aerosoft F-14, just flying the pattern well and getting the airplane to bank smoothly at target AOA proved surprisingly difficult - everything needs to be very precise. Practicing on land will reduce the frustration level quite a bit.

 

In real life, the F-14A nugget pass rate for carrier quals was only 60%. So the rate of failure was something like double that of other carrier airplanes. When it comes to things like the LNS campaign, just recovering back on the boat may be one of the hardest parts of each mission - just like real life.

 

Can't wait!

 

-Nick