rassy7 Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 I've had a lot going on lately so I've been in and out the last several months, but life has settled to some degree now and I'm trying to catch up a little. Been thumbing through all the DCS 2.0 posts and trying to track progress on a few of the newer modules, but one thing I haven't really come across got me wondering: Has there been any mention of incorporating a form of standardized leaderboard at any point down the road? Is there any kind of third-party leaderboard active anywhere? Would a leaderboard cheapen a simulator like this, or add to it? Thoughts? The State Military (MAG 13) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] SHEEP WE-01 AV-8B BuNo 164553 VMA-214 Col J. “Poe” Rasmussen http://www.statelyfe.com Specs: Gigabyte Z390 Pro Wifi; i9-9900K; EVGA 2080 Ti Black; 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4; Samsung 970 EVO Series M.2 SSD; WIN10; ASUS VG248QE; CV-1 and Index Modules: A-10C; AV8B; CA; FC3; F-5; F-14; F-18; F-86; HAWK; L-39; P-51; UH1H; NTTR; Normandy; Persian Gulf
AtaliaA1 Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 A Leader Board isn't relevant to this type of Simulator. The Dynamic nature of the "Study Sim." doesn't allow for a "Rating System" in its current state of things. It would be possible in a lesser sim. such as the WWII type of shoot'em ups that accrue kills. Then it's only relevance would be to that server. Although from a "Logistics" point it would then allow an additional forum entry such as this rating system you mention. Highly difficult to do in the A10 unless kills are the key. This of course not allowing the technical aspects of the A10 to prevail unless done in a campaign style rating and again then its relevance is only pertinent to that server. Not disregarding another forum entry to highlight such. I personally have no interest in "Competing" in this manner. As it means little in the grand scheme of things. Lesser minds will disagree I am sure. This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.
ED Team NineLine Posted June 9, 2015 ED Team Posted June 9, 2015 I dunno, I have seen some cool stats over there years for different servers, it depends on what you want to do, and how you want to do it, but keeping track of things like the % you make it back to base, or ground kills, etc... if done right I think it could add to DCS. I would love to see the in sim logs somehow have data that could be shared in your forum profile, etc... hours flown, ground kills, air kills, based on which module... etc etc... It could be cool... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
SkateZilla Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Some servers do Track stats by EDID using SLMod I think, and those stats are put to a SQL database then a PHP page/block. Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs
Mowgli Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 do you refer to the stats & rating system similar to SA Site ? if so then I agree with sith - this kind of Leaderboards would definitely boost the competition in DCS [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Intel i5 4690K | ASUS Z-97PRO Gaming Mobo | Nvidia Gigabyte GTX970 3.5/0.5 GB Windforce3 | G.Skill Ripjaws-X 2x8GB DDR3 1600Mhz | Samsung Evo 120GB SSD | Win10 Pro | Antec 750w 80 Bronze Modular
xoxen Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 For me statistics like hours flown and kills/crashes etc. would be enough. When I switched to Multiplayer I totally lost overview of flown hours. Rating isn´t important for me as I never would be inside of the top ten ;) AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus, 64GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4-3600 CL16, Asus TUF Gaming RTX 4080 OC, Windows 11 64bit Home Premium, TrackIR 5 with TrackClip: Pro!, Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base + TM Warthog Stick + 7cm extension + WINWING Orion 2 with F-15EX grips, Cougar MFDs with 8" displays, Saitek Rudder Pedals, Samsung Odyssey G9 49" 5120x1440 @120 Hz
rassy7 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Posted June 9, 2015 Good points all around. I guess I'm not sure exactly what I mean. I love the depth of this sim and the more realistic and complicated, the better, for me at least, so I wouldn't want to compromise that, but at the same time, I wonder if there isn't room for some measure between the full-blown CoD-style ranking and some form of flight management tracker similar to what Sith alluded to (% back to base, flight time and kills etc.). I know real-life pilots and even squadrons keep that info and it was really competitive in larger theaters such as Pacific and European theaters in WWII. I have come across some SLMod stats on occasion and I enjoy the single-player logbook, but I wonder how a multiplayer system could affect the competition as Vjamiko mentioned. Anyone who flies frequently online knows a few of the more veteran pilots by name, pilots who seem to RTB for rearming and refueling more than floating to Earth under the chute like me. For those who don't know who they are, a system of record-keeping might establish that distinction on a more public level. I think it might be cool if it were done well. After all, if you hopped into a server to fly with/against Pappy Boyington, George Preddy, Robin Olds etc., wouldn't you want to know? Just a thought. Thanks for your insights everybody. The State Military (MAG 13) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] SHEEP WE-01 AV-8B BuNo 164553 VMA-214 Col J. “Poe” Rasmussen http://www.statelyfe.com Specs: Gigabyte Z390 Pro Wifi; i9-9900K; EVGA 2080 Ti Black; 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4; Samsung 970 EVO Series M.2 SSD; WIN10; ASUS VG248QE; CV-1 and Index Modules: A-10C; AV8B; CA; FC3; F-5; F-14; F-18; F-86; HAWK; L-39; P-51; UH1H; NTTR; Normandy; Persian Gulf
Frostie Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) There have been plenty of stat programs in pre DCS versions of FC. Case has brought back to life our very own stats for our server in DCS which he created back in the early FC days. It's adds an element of must not crash and must survive and rtb to your flight plus Case has in the past tried to add bonuses for flying cooperatively. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138737&highlight=stats http://www.51st.org/stats/index.php?pid=1505 http://www.51st.org/stats/rules.html Edited June 9, 2015 by Frostie "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
IASGATG Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 I think what I'd be most interested to see would be Pk of the missiles. Would be really interesting to see over a long period and large sample how the Pk of the missiles vary. I imagine the ET probably takes the lead, followed by the 120, followed by the ER followed by the 77.
Sierra99 Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Would a leaderboard cheapen a simulator like this, or add to it? Thoughts? I'm not trolling but I honestly can't think of a worse idea. This isn't a million + copy first person shooter. These are study sims. I mostly fly the A-10 because I want to learn how to fly and operate it as close to realistically as possible. This isn't about score or my ranking among peers... Leaderboards lead to a desire to be on top of the leaderboard...which leads to cheating. I have many games on my shelf that were played less than a month online because the game was good, but cheating and hacking was rampant. (COD, COD2,COD MW...the list goes on) No, leaderboards are just a bad idea in this instance That being said... I think the upcoming TTR map will lead itself nicely to competition. There are lots of virtual flying squadrons out there and every single one of them KNOW they are better than the next guy...OK prove it. I'd love to see someone take the time to develop a detailed Virtual Red Flag map once the TTR map is released. Once a quarter...or more if there is a desire, Online squadrons come to Nellis and compete for bragging rights in a neutral server, scored by third parties. You win there...you get bragging rights and a nice banner for your sig line... I think THAT would be a hoot! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
Buzzles Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 My experience with leaderboards in online games, even serious ones, is that they should be kept as far away as possible from the general public. If you want a good example, go read the Rise of Flight forums, and read the threads where people squabble over kills on MP servers, they're often downright nasty to each other. Leaderboards bring out the worst in the general gaming population. That said, there are times when leaderboards work, such as in competitive games (clan vs clan, or in this case, virtual squadrons), where everyone goes in with the understanding that your own standing doesn't matter as long as the team comes out on top, but for the general population they're just terrible. And for these rare times, they can be handled by the existing third party mods. Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here!
rassy7 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Posted June 9, 2015 There have been plenty of stat programs in pre DCS versions of FC. Case has brought back to life our very own stats for our server in DCS which he created back in the early FC days. It's adds an element of must not crash and must survive and rtb to your flight plus Case has in the past tried to add bonuses for flying cooperatively. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138737&highlight=stats Maybe it's an acquired taste. It does seem like there is a pretty good reaction to the stats page on this thread. I think there is a lot to be said for the how some kind of record-keeping would work, be it something eventually fed to a leaderboard, posted as sortable stats or perhaps even left only for the pilot's eyes as a kind of evolved multiplayer logbook. ... where people squabble over kills on MP servers, they're often downright nasty to each other. THIS is a good point, though, and there is something to be said for that. Enter the discussions of server hiccups, glitches, hackers etc., and those are never pleasant, but to some degree those lapses in understand are already out there. I'm not sure DCS could ever completely escape issues such as these, even tangential to the discussion of a leaderboard (I won't repeat what I said the first time I spent 4 minutes starting up my A-10 just to have somebody rocket a jet down the taxiway into me at takeoff speed), so I guess the question is at what point would those who enjoy a form of stat-tracking be happy before introducing the risk of a hellbent pissing contest raised on ad hominem arguments. The State Military (MAG 13) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] SHEEP WE-01 AV-8B BuNo 164553 VMA-214 Col J. “Poe” Rasmussen http://www.statelyfe.com Specs: Gigabyte Z390 Pro Wifi; i9-9900K; EVGA 2080 Ti Black; 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4; Samsung 970 EVO Series M.2 SSD; WIN10; ASUS VG248QE; CV-1 and Index Modules: A-10C; AV8B; CA; FC3; F-5; F-14; F-18; F-86; HAWK; L-39; P-51; UH1H; NTTR; Normandy; Persian Gulf
Exorcet Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 The poll feels incomplete. Leaderboards don't interest me at all. They won't cheapen the sim though, if they were added I would just have nothing to do with them, as I have nothing to do with the log book out of a lack of reason to use it. In real life, stats are tracked, so I can't see why there would be a heavy stance against them in DCS. High scoring aces are famous, mission success rates for specific airframes are kept and so are altitude and speed records. There are lots of things DCS could track and some of it could even be useful or entertaining. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files
Frostie Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 I think what I'd be most interested to see would be Pk of the missiles. Would be really interesting to see over a long period and large sample how the Pk of the missiles vary. I imagine the ET probably takes the lead, followed by the 120, followed by the ER followed by the 77. You mean like this logged in 2010. 1 "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
Grimes Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 The thing about global stats is you have to take the good with the bad. The good, on a personal level, being that you can track your progress, compare with friends, and use that information to alter your play style. Additionally global stats are interesting to developers/mission designers in the sense of getting an idea of what people are using, how good something is, and other "overall picture" oriented stats. Frostie's missile stats lets you infer quite a bit from that table alone. The bad side of global stats though are the extremes some would take to get to the top of a leaderboard. If all player stats are setup to upload to a central server there would be nothing stopping me from running a mission with infinite ammo and a script that spawns 100 units in the perfect formation for cluster bombs allowing me to game the system. Its a problem all games with stats have to deal with at some level or another. Personally I'd be happy with a global flight time stat for each aircraft flown. Weapons stats, mission success, etc are all great to have, but given the differences in how everyone uses the sim forces you to look at those stats differently. Its difficult for me to see how stats would be related when those stats are accumulated from flying the A-10C on a free flight server, an A2G server, an airquake server, and a hardcore "flight simming is serious business" server. edit OT: Frostie do you know who fired that one R-27T? The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
Home Fries Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) I have no problem with uploading and sharing a pilot log; it's a nice way to share what you do in what aircraft. However, what Grimes described as gaming the system is even easier since you can manually add hours or kills in the lua file as things stand now. I don't think this warrants encrypting the file (sometimes I make manual edits when entries get weird); we just need to take things with a grain of salt. There's a program for Falcon BMS called Logbook Manager that uploads your Falcon logbook to a server. The nice thing about this is it will compare incremental logbook updates to show your trends over time, which is one way to expose the people gaming the system. Edited June 10, 2015 by Home Fries -Home Fries My DCS Files and Skins My DCS TARGET Profile for Cougar or Warthog and MFDs F-14B LANTIRN Guide
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