How to navigate checkpoints properly

[kharasho]

Hello guys,

 

I'm just in the process of learning this beautiful plane with mainly take-off and landing practices. I can use the RSBN to perform guided landing and radial interception. I'm quite familiar with it as it's very similar or analogous to the ordinary VOR and ILS system used in FSX and other simulator.

 

However I've been having trouble trying to follow the campaign waypoints set up for me in the briefing. I don't think the numbered checkpoints have any navigational aid on it with the exception of some point. I don't know the correct heading to go and the distance between waypoints exactly. Yesterday I tried to fly the first mission and I got lost almost immediately trying to follow the routes in kneeboard without looking at the digital map. I can only return to base thanks to the RSBN in the airbase.

 

Hence I ask you, how do you navigate those checkpoints? I just know how to go from vor to vor or vor to ndb if I know the correct heading. I'm very beginner still at simulator, so I think there can be perhaps other techniques that I don't know.

 

Thank You

[OnlyforDCS]

Good question. I too have stayed away from the campaing before I get really comfortable with the basics of flying this beautiful plane, and figuring out all the different systems.

[kharasho]

Good question. I too have stayed away from the campaing before I get really comfortable with the basics of flying this beautiful plane, and figuring out all the different systems.

 

It's not just the systems, I feel like I'm missing basic or obvious navigational concepts that every pilot knows.

[Fishbreath]

One way of doing things:

 

1. Note bearing from waypoint x to waypoint x+1 in briefing.

2. Note range/bearing from a designated RSBN station to waypoint x+1.

3. When you reach waypoint x, turn to the noted bearing.

4. Fly that bearing until your range/bearing from the designated RSBN station matches the noted range/bearing.

 

That's the easiest way, and provides an easy way of correcting any error you accumulate along the way: just fly along the radial until you hit the correct range.

 

You can also note the bearing to a given point on the map from two RSBN stations (or two NDB stations (I forget what they're called in Russian, exactly <.<), or a combination thereof), and fly until you match those bearings. That's a little harder, because it requires tuning back and forth between two stations, and the data you need to correct error is on both of them. (Fly along the first radial you match, then watch for the second bearing to line up.)

[gavagai]

I've only done a little bit of navigation in a real aircraft, but my pilot friend made me get out the map hours before our flight and study our rout. In addition to landmarks, I had to identify the VOR stations in advance and to plot the radial intersections that would indicate a correct flight path. There are some good apps available to do this kind of work on a tablet.

 

If you want to put in 45 minutes of work before every flight with long distance waypoints knock yourself out.:thumbup:

 

P.S. I stopped flying the Mig-21 stock campaign and switched to the Guardians of The Caucasus dynamic campaign. The stock campaign was frustrating to me because it has Mig-21s with the same skins flying for both sides, and the radio bug interferes sometimes, too.

Edited June 19, 2015 by gavagai

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

 

P.S. I stopped flying the Mig-21 stock campaign and switched to the Guardians of The Caucasus dynamic campaign. The stock campaign was frustrating to me because it has Mig-21s with the same skins flying for both sides, and the radio bug interferes sometimes, too.

 

Yeah, me too. And the mysterious F-18's as well. Were they flying for our side, or theirs?? :music_whistling:

[Mano]

The problem with radio navigation in dcs is that you don't have information at disposition nor mission planning...

 

Dcs mission planner is horrible and useless and it's a compliment to call it like that imho. With its limits falcon bms editor is a long way better than this. Moreover it crashes for me when flying the 21's stock campaign, but i believe it's only a problem of mine.

 

I hope they'll improve it someway with dcs2.

 

My 2 cents...

[Blech]

Hi,

 

 

Perhaps usefull

Flight Planning Tool for DCS World V 2.2

http://www.ariescon.com/index10.html

 

:dunno: Navigation ? I heard about it - and I'm happy to hit a waypoint within +/- 5 km with the MIG21 - without using the kneeboard and the map

( kneeboard with position mark only to check the +/- km on waypoints )

 

 

DCS 2.0 and WW2-Scenario ( flying with the stopwatch - course, speed )

I hope we will get a integrated flight-planning-tool and a flight-plan on the kneeboard

[goodpoints]

Hi,

 

 

Perhaps usefull

Flight Planning Tool for DCS World V 2.2

http://www.ariescon.com/index10.html

 

:dunno: Navigation ? I heard about it - and I'm happy to hit a waypoint within +/- 5 km with the MIG21 - without using the kneeboard and the map

( kneeboard with position mark only to check the +/- km on waypoints )

 

 

DCS 2.0 and WW2-Scenario ( flying with the stopwatch - course, speed )

I hope we will get a integrated flight-planning-tool and a flight-plan on the kneeboard

 

How are you using the that flight planner program for the MiG-21? There isn't yet a spreadsheet for the 21's data so it's not taking weight, drag, etc. into account. Are you just using it without? I took a look at creating a spreadsheet that would work for the 21 but I don't understand how the creator set up all the parameters and formulas.

Edited July 11, 2015 by goodpoints

[Blech]

How are you using the that flight planner program for the MiG-21? There isn't yet a spreadsheet for the 21's data so it's not taking weight, drag, etc. into account. Are you just using it without? I took a look at creating a spreadsheet that would work for the 21 but I don't understand how the creator set up all the parameters and formulas.

 

 

Hi,

 

You are right - a MIG-21BIS.csv is missing

But the flight planner does not use the *.csv for the flight planning itself

Distance / TAS = time

The player has to use realistic values in the mission editor for the waypoints ( altitude / speed )

 

Weight or fuel have no influence

The flight planning is simple - but you have all information ( course, distance, speed, altitude, time, ... ) with two or three mouse-clicks

 

Test it with e.g. A-10C full payload / empty - same mission / waypoints

The time will be the same

 

 

The *.csv files are used for the loadout information

The flight planner program is still WIP - the older version was only for the A-10C and the KA-50

I guess the program is not looking for a MIG-21BIS.csv at the moment

I failed with tests

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How it works with the *.CSV files

 

A mission file *.miz is an archive with three files ( mission / options / warehouses )

 

You can expand a *.miz with 7-ZIP

Then open mission\mission with Notepad++ and locate for payload / pylons / ["CLSID"] =

 

 

The program opens mission\mission and locates payload / pylons / ["CLSID"]

A MIG-21BIS mission equipped with "Patrol, long range" contains this payload

 

["skill"] = "Player"

["type"] = "MiG-21Bis"

["payload"]

["pylons"]

1 ["CLSID"] = "{R-3S}"

2 ["CLSID"] = "{R-3R}"

3 ["CLSID"] = "{PTB_800_MIG21}"

4 ["CLSID"] = "{R-3R"

5 ["CLSID"] = "{R-3S}"

6 ["CLSID"] = "{ASO-2}"

end of ["pylons"

["fuel"] = 2280

["flare"] = 32

["ammo_type"] = 1

["chaff"] = 32

["gun"] = 100

end of ["payload"]

 

The CLSID can be

"{R-3S}"

or something like this

"{6D21ECEA-F85B-4E8D-9D51-31DC9B8AA4EF}"

 

 

The special aircraft, e.g. MIG-21BIS.csv contains all information for the weapons ( CLSID )

CLSID R-3S

xxx kg

yy Drag-Index

 

...

 

 

 

Where are the values from for the *.csv files ?

 

Drag-Index - I don`t know

 

Weight

For the most airplaines you will find the CLSID here

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Scripts\Database\db_weapons_data.lua

 

CLSID = "{6D21ECEA-F85B-4E8D-9D51-31DC9B8AA4EF}",

Picture = "ALQ131.png",

displayName = _("ALQ-131"),

Weight = 305,

 

 

For the third party modules there seems to be a change

For the MIG-21BIS you will find it here

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\CoreMods\aircraft\MiG-21BIS\Entry\Aw

 

{PTB_800_MIG21} �� bak900.png �� Fuel Tank 800 L (21) � ˆ…@�� PTB-800-MIG21 ��

 

:D Exact, equip things in the mission editor and you will get the weight

[Cruiser18]

Hmm, I haven't found it hard to navigate with the Mig21. Fx in the first mission where you have to go from one airport to another I just used the ARC stations. There's 2-3 ARC stations along the coast that you can navigate after until you are within range of the target airports RSBN beacon.

 

Available ARC stations should be in your kneeboard as well as printed on a placard on the inside of your cockpit.

[Babushka]

Hello guys,

 

I'm just in the process of learning this beautiful plane with mainly take-off and landing practices. I can use the RSBN to perform guided landing and radial interception. I'm quite familiar with it as it's very similar or analogous to the ordinary VOR and ILS system used in FSX and other simulator.

 

However I've been having trouble trying to follow the campaign waypoints set up for me in the briefing. I don't think the numbered checkpoints have any navigational aid on it with the exception of some point. I don't know the correct heading to go and the distance between waypoints exactly. Yesterday I tried to fly the first mission and I got lost almost immediately trying to follow the routes in kneeboard without looking at the digital map. I can only return to base thanks to the RSBN in the airbase.

 

Hence I ask you, how do you navigate those checkpoints? I just know how to go from vor to vor or vor to ndb if I know the correct heading. I'm very beginner still at simulator, so I think there can be perhaps other techniques that I don't know.

 

Thank You

 

Yeah..I've been there myself. No worries.:thumbup: One thing I do (and I always have) is I have my notepads with me. I use the kneeboard just to generally check where my plane is, but before I fly I'd collect all the mission waypoints and study them on the map on the screen (note mountain ranges, key points, terrain features..etc) I would write down bearings, radio freqs or anything I would need to help me fly the mission. Just like a real pilot! :) These notepads will be on my table and I would check them every time. What you want to do is get a 'whole picture' of the map, mission and secondary procedures if anything goes bad. I'd sometimes would sketch out the flight track on my pad..instead of using the kneeboard.

THEN...you start your mission. For e.g...If I would to meet up a group of fighter bombers, I would probably want to delay my startup a bit, because I can get up to their altitiude quickly to join up, instead of wasting fuel if I overshoot them. So hope this thoughts help. The word is PREPARATION. :smilewink:

[portman]

...before I fly I'd collect all the mission waypoints and study them on the map on the screen (note mountain ranges, key points, terrain features..etc) I would write down bearings, radio freqs or anything I would need to help me fly the mission... What you want to do is get a 'whole picture' of the map, mission and secondary procedures if anything goes bad. I'd sometimes would sketch out the flight track on my pad..instead of using the kneeboard.

 

Exactly :thumbup: Additionally, you can fly a certain TAS and therefore calculate your (approximate) time needed from one WP to another, which really helps with the "where am I" question.

[grunf]

Exactly :thumbup: Additionally, you can fly a certain TAS and therefore calculate your (approximate) time needed from one WP to another, which really helps with the "where am I" question.

Good old dead reckoning. :thumbup:

[Britchot]

It's been a while but when I first did the MiG-21 campaign I would use the Mark hotkey on the Kneeboard to put a chevron where I was currently at and used that to keep my visual navigation in line. I recall the mountain valleys looking quite similar to each other.

[PE_Tigar]

At altitudes and speeds that MiG is flying, my preferred way of defining waypoints is RSBN radial/distance. It takes a bit of preparation, and requires a nav log prep as well, but if used properly you will be reasonably accurate. We can't really do 2x RSBN radial intersection method because we don't have two RSBN sets.

[Bersagliere81]

Can someone provide me a link for a decent tutorial about radial interceptions? I saw a few on youtube, but they are too long and not that clear to me

[HugePanic]

I have made 2 tools for navigation.

 

 

 

Fuel/Speed/Range Chart is displayed in the mig-21 kneeboard...

https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=121094&d=1441307070

 

And a flight planner sheet that I have printed and laminated. I write on it with a water erasable pen.

IFR_Plan_Sheet.zip