"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[Ultra]

how about Mirages on Red?

 

MiG-23 stand-in...(goes fast, crappy missiles, limited radar functionality, short-ish legs)

 

Post 691, they are on both sides.

[Sweep]

Post 691, they are on both sides.

 

Awesome!

 

No clue how or why I missed that, only read the bottom of the page earlier... :doh:

[Sierra99]

;2651145']Agreed, it would be nice for a change though, especially since the first Blue Flag seen the Blue force outnumber Red so often.

 

Not looking for a permanent change, just one round this year with some F-15s on Red would be good fun!

 

To be honest...I try to join at least once a day during active matches work and sleep permitting...but if they put the F-15 on Red side...I'd sit that round out.

 

I've tried the "all the airplanes on both sides" servers and its frustrating as hell to join a server in an A-10 and get shot down by an OPFOR F-15 I knew full well was there...but since there's no way to know who's who...I get shot down and some idiot gets to brag about shooting down a non maneuvering target. Not why I fly DCS.

 

If ya wanna fly the Eagle...join Blufor...

 

Just saying

[104th_Maverick]

if they put the F-15 on Red side...I'd sit that round out.

 

Sad to hear it, unfortunately there are a lot of people who will agree with you, I can understand the frustration in an aircraft with no Radar not being able to IFF.

 

but since there's no way to know who's who

 

There is ..... SA ;)

 

You'll be on teamspeak with other aircraft including Fighters, if the co-ordination is working well you will know who's who, it's not as hard as it sounds, we do it all the time in the 104th server.

 

But again, I see your point, it is much easier to have all aircraft on one side for Strikers to IFF. I just know from experience that its not impossible to make it work.

And like I said, it would be fun to have some Eagle on Eagle combat in the BF format.

[QuiGon]

To be honest...I try to join at least once a day during active matches work and sleep permitting...but if they put the F-15 on Red side...I'd sit that round out.

 

I've tried the "all the airplanes on both sides" servers and its frustrating as hell to join a server in an A-10 and get shot down by an OPFOR F-15 I knew full well was there...but since there's no way to know who's who...I get shot down and some idiot gets to brag about shooting down a non maneuvering target. Not why I fly DCS.

 

If ya wanna fly the Eagle...join Blufor...

 

Just saying

 

I strongly agree!

Not just because of IFFing (which is an important reason!), but also because of immersion. If you ask me, I would split all the aircraft to different sides (Mirage = blue, MiG-21 = red, A-10 = blue, Su-25 = red, UH-1 = blue, Mi-8 = red). I understand that this would cause some problems (aircraft availability, balancing), but it would be worth it in my opionion.

Since there is no majority for this approach I will be happy if at least the FC3 fighters will stick to their respective side.

[domini99]

I strongly agree!

Not just because of IFFing (which is an important reason!), but also because of immersion. If you ask me, I would split all the aircraft to different sides (Mirage = blue, MiG-21 = red, A-10 = blue, Su-25 = red, UH-1 = blue, Mi-8 = red). I understand that this would cause some problems (aircraft availability, balancing), but it would be worth it in my opionion.

Since there is no majority for this approach I will be happy if at least the FC3 fighters will stick to their respective side.

This would eventually end up with the F/A-18 on blue, Typhoon on blue, etc.

 

And this would make everybody only play blue because they want to play with their new toys.

 

In the meanwhile, red is stuck with the FC3 aircraft. That won't work.

No one will play red anymore

[GurbY]

;2651103']Any chance we could have an event in the future with the F-15 on Red?

 

Don't get me wrong, we enjoyed the East vs West style last time, it would just be nice to fly on Red and to have a crack at some of the other F-15 pilots in the community, from time to time :)

 

Hope testing is going well! Looking forward to flying again!

[QuiGon]

This would eventually end up with the F/A-18 on blue, Typhoon on blue, etc.

 

And this would make everybody only play blue because they want to play with their new toys.

 

In the meanwhile, red is stuck with the FC3 aircraft. That won't work.

No one will play red anymore

 

Yes, I also see that problem, but I think aircraft types should be different for both sides as far as possible. It's obviously difficult at the moment to do that with attack helicopters for example, since we only have one. But it would be possible for other types of aircraft like the transport helicopters.

 

But let's not get into that debate here. It's fine for now as long as the FC3 fighters are seperated. :)

Edited January 21, 2016 by QuiGon

[StandingCow]

;2651485']Sad to hear it, unfortunately there are a lot of people who will agree with you, I can understand the frustration in an aircraft with no Radar not being able to IFF.

 

 

 

There is ..... SA ;)

 

You'll be on teamspeak with other aircraft including Fighters, if the co-ordination is working well you will know who's who, it's not as hard as it sounds, we do it all the time in the 104th server.

 

But again, I see your point, it is much easier to have all aircraft on one side for Strikers to IFF. I just know from experience that its not impossible to make it work.

And like I said, it would be fun to have some Eagle on Eagle combat in the BF format.

 

As much as I love the 104th... there are often (most of the time actually) times when the guy in the fighter or striker isn't in TS, or they are in the fighter channel so you don't have time to move up and ask, and they probably don't have the whole whisper thing set up.

 

Gotta agree with the others.... 15s on both sides would not be a great idea.

[104th_Maverick]

 

Serious, the Mirage is on both sides.... Only reason I asked.

 

Plus, in the first round there was complaints about the number of Blue Aircraft, having Red F-15s would balance this out if the same problem keeps occurring in the future. Hopefully there will be enough Reds around the clock in the next rounds and this won't be an issue :)

[StandingCow]

;2651558']Serious, the Mirage is on both sides.... Only reason I asked.

 

Plus, in the first round there was complaints about the number of Blue Aircraft, having Red F-15s would balance this out if the same problem keeps occurring in the future. Hopefully there will be enough Reds around the clock in the next rounds and this won't be an issue :)

 

Stop shooting them down! :D

[Pikey]

I agree it could be a solution, but to meter the issue of lost SA I would have to propose we can get LoTATC in there to assist with SPIKE calls and provide the SA that would be lost if having 15's on both sides.

 

Greg did say he wasn't considering it, but there's a change we can use the other server they have for a slightly different type of Blue Flag that you suggest Maverick.

 

;2651558']Serious, the Mirage is on both sides.... Only reason I asked.

 

Plus, in the first round there was complaints about the number of Blue Aircraft, having Red F-15s would balance this out if the same problem keeps occurring in the future. Hopefully there will be enough Reds around the clock in the next rounds and this won't be an issue :)

[104th_Maverick]

Hey StandingCow I have dreams too man! :D

 

I agree it could be a solution, but to meter the issue of lost SA I would have to propose we can get LoTATC in there to assist with SPIKE calls and provide the SA that would be lost if having 15's on both sides.

 

Now you're talking!

 

I agree, the lost SA for Strikers would not be popular, but as you say its a 'possible' solution if future rounds are grossly unbalanced. Thanks!

Edited January 21, 2016 by [Maverick]

[504smudge]

The single biggest problem with that idea is IFF for all aircraft that don't have an IFF/Radar, your in an A-10, an F-15 flys past, is it red is it blue? Who knows.... It's bad enough having M2000 and Mig21 on both sides. I'd just like to say I think it's a bad idea

[QuiGon]

The single biggest problem with that idea is IFF for all aircraft that don't have an IFF/Radar, your in an A-10, an F-15 flys past, is it red is it blue? Who knows.... It's bad enough having M2000 and Mig21 on both sides. I'd just like to say I think it's a bad idea

 

Yeah, I think the M2000 and MiG-21 should also be split up (M2000 -> blue, MiG-21 -> red). I know, it doesn't benefit the balancing on the other hand.

[504smudge]

Yeah, I think the M2000 and MiG-21 should also be split up (M2000 -> blue, MiG-21 -> red). I know, it doesn't benefit the balancing on the other hand.

 

 

 

Well with the condition of the M2000 at the moment he Mig21 is a qual opponent.

[Pikey]

A lot of Blue Flag is not neccessarily about authenticity, but popularity so the Mirage vs 21 debate doesn't wash due to Ka50 and A-10C. The only thing thats really contentious is having a fighter with no IFF, there will be needless death, it's inevitable, ACG server tells us this, I get it in my own intenal server games.

 

These conversations are tough, but Greg's always got a good balance and I trust him to make the right calls in all our benefit.

Yeah, I think the M2000 and MiG-21 should also be split up (M2000 -> blue, MiG-21 -> red). I know, it doesn't benefit the balancing on the other hand.

[gregzagk]

There are many things you have to consider when you put up an event like this.

 

First we want to keep the NATO vs Russian feeling on the FC3 fighters as this create hype and a healthy competition between the squadrons.

Then by monitoring the performance of the 2x sides during the previous rounds there wasn't a moment where Blue dominated or the opposite even if there were posts like this (propaganda :D). You can check the stats (losses, aircraft used etc).

 

The rounds were won by different conditions each time, such as more dedication of some pilots flying more and effective missions during day and night etc. Which is what it should be like.

 

So by having the nice feeling of the war between different types of fighters and by keeping it balanced we see no reason of changing it for now.

 

This is for the FC3 fighters. For the other modules there is a totally different situation.

Along with the gameplay you have always to keep a level of balance and motivation to join both sides.

 

So for example by having A-10C and KA-50's which are the most popular modules in only one side then you create problems. There are no other modules compared on the systems these modules have.

 

Then there comes the problem of loadouts. SU-25T is the only SEAD capable aircraft (meaning the long range missiles).

MiG-21 was the aircraft which was much anticipated and we didn't feel ok to have it only in one side as then some pilots won't be able to use it.

 

For the M2KC there are a lot of stuff. This figher is new and really famous along the pilots and can be a multirole with the latest addition of the buddylasing. So by having an aircraft like this in one side when it can drop LGB's in targets that are lased by the AI JTACs (autolasing script), fighting Air to Air etc won't be a good idea IMO.

 

My squadron for example would go Blue (+20 active pilots...) instantly. :D

Along with the fact that both MiG-21 and M2KC were used by many countries in real life it doesn't feel unrealistic.

 

Xcom will post soon the status of the testing phase along with some good news we have in the Buddyspike team.

 

See you in the server :)

Greg

[QuiGon]

There are many things you have to consider when you put up an event like this.

 

First we want to keep the NATO vs Russian feeling on the FC3 fighters as this create hype and a healthy competition between the squadrons.

Then by monitoring the performance of the 2x sides during the previous rounds there wasn't a moment where Blue dominated or the opposite even if there were posts like this (propaganda :D). You can check the stats (losses, aircraft used etc).

 

The rounds were won by different conditions each time, such as more dedication of some pilots flying more and effective missions during day and night etc. Which is what it should be like.

 

So by having the nice feeling of the war between different types of fighters and by keeping it balanced we see no reason of changing it for now.

 

This is for the FC3 fighters. For the other modules there is a totally different situation.

Along with the gameplay you have always to keep a level of balance and motivation to join both sides.

 

So for example by having A-10C and KA-50's which are the most popular modules in only one side then you create problems. There are no other modules compared on the systems these modules have.

 

Then there comes the problem of loadouts. SU-25T is the only SEAD capable aircraft (meaning the long range missiles).

MiG-21 was the aircraft which was much anticipated and we didn't feel ok to have it only in one side as then some pilots won't be able to use it.

 

For the M2KC there are a lot of stuff. This figher is new and really famous along the pilots and can be a multirole with the latest addition of the buddylasing. So by having an aircraft like this in one side when it can drop LGB's in targets that are lased by the AI JTACs (autolasing script), fighting Air to Air etc won't be a good idea IMO.

 

My squadron for example would go Blue (+20 active pilots...) instantly. :D

Along with the fact that both MiG-21 and M2KC were used by many countries in real life it doesn't feel unrealistic.

 

What you said is totally reasonable. As much as I wish it would be a more realistic east vs. west setting, as much I do understand that it currently is not really possible gameplay wise. I really hope that'll change in the feature with more and more aircraft becomming available.

 

Xcom will post soon the status of the testing phase along with some good news we have in the Buddyspike team.

 

See you in the server :)

Greg

 

Looking forward to the results and (hopefully) the next live round :thumbup:

[504smudge]

Thanks for the post Greg

[Ashilta]

My £0.02:

 

Considering just the airframes themselves, and not the associated support network of AWACS, AFAC, other CAP assets etc., the Mirage is simply not an equal beast to the MiG-21. The 21, in the right hands, is an absolutely lethal interceptor with a real hit and run capacity. It can quite independently discern friend from foe, engage and disappear without much of a detection window. The Mirage, on the other hand, can cruise about quite happily and is a nimble beast, but detection capabilities? Nerfed through phantom radar returns. Safety of engagement? Hampered by a lack of IFF. Even if they do get into an engagement; escaping reliably? Big old IR signature at the back and an unreliable countermeasure dispenser.

 

Guys, I'm not knocking the Mirage, it's a beta and I love it. But comparing it to a MiG-21 is like comparing a Eurofighter Typoon and a Sopwith Camel at the moment. Greg will find a happy balance regarding the Mirage, but the one thing I've always loved about BlueFlue is that RU vs NATO style philosophy.

[QuiGon]

The Mirage has at least two big advantages over the MiG-21:

- The better radar with better range and Look-Down/Shoot-Down capability

- The RWR which provides a far better SA than you can get in the MiG-21. Especially if you fly in high-threat environments.

[Ashilta]

The Mirage has at least two big advantages over the MiG-21:

- The better radar with better range and Look-Down/Shoot-Down capability

- The RWR which provides a far better SA than you can get in the MiG-21. Especially if you fly in high-threat environments.

 

When it's modelled correctly, yes! But it's not, and consequently if Greg had opted to place the Mirage on Blue and make the MiG a Red exclusive, there'd have been a monumental imbalance in favour of red.

[Coxy_99]

I would leave the m-2000c out altogether, This solves what side it should be on and stops debates over what is better :) + the mirage is not finished you may aswell bung the L-39 in there to it has rockets :)

[Sierra99]

;2651558']Serious, the Mirage is on both sides.... Only reason I asked.

 

Plus, in the first round there was complaints about the number of Blue Aircraft, having Red F-15s would balance this out if the same problem keeps occurring in the future. Hopefully there will be enough Reds around the clock in the next rounds and this won't be an issue :)

 

That's a valid point. I thought the 2000 was used by more countries than it is but thanks to google...I know different.