"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[Alleluia]

Hi

Lonewolf too

 

Callsign: Alleluia

Prefered Aircraft: A-10C

[*Rage*]

Hi BS team. At some point in the rotation can we have a Mig21 vs F5 scenario?

[Gri]

Hi

 

Lonewolf here

Callsign : Grib

Blue side

Aircraft : M2KC / A-10C

 

Thanks

[D4n]

Hi BS team. At some point in the rotation can we have a Mig21 vs F5 scenario?

 

If the BS server CPU (+RAM + Bandwidth) can handle two servers at once, then no problem for 21-F5 server and OP Blue Flag Round 9 running simultaneous! :)

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Better to just limit it to one server. I think that it should be the next scenario if not then the Korean era should.

 

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[QuiGon]

Hi BS team. At some point in the rotation can we have a Mig21 vs F5 scenario?

 

A Vietnam setting is also something I'm really hoping for, besides the korea setting :thumbup:

[firmek]

A Vietnam setting is also something I'm really hoping for, besides the korea setting :thumbup:

Why not mixed Korea and Vietnam with MiG-15, Mig-21, Mi-8 vs F-5E, Sabre, Huey? Not exactly fully reflecting an historical setting but availability of modules in DCS should be also taken into consideration.

[QuiGon]

Why not mixed Korea and Vietnam with MiG-15, Mig-21, Mi-8 vs F-5E, Sabre, Huey? Not exactly fully reflecting an historical setting but availability of modules in DCS should be also taken into consideration.

 

Why not? You already mentioned why I'm against that:

Not exactly fully reflecting an historical setting

Apart from that, the oportunity to fly older aircraft effectively is what makes these settings so interesting for me. If we would have a mixed Vietnam/Korea scenario it would take away the fun from the 2nd gen jets (Sabre/Fagot), because you would have to go up against 3rd gen jets. I know it's a challenge and so on, but I would also love to fly these older aircraft to their full extent.

 

So, pls give us both, a Vietnam era Blue Flag and a Korea era Blue Flag :)

Edited August 9, 2016 by QuiGon

[firmek]

I agree that mixing the 1'st and 3'd generation is an issue. It's actually the same today as there is not much incentive to fly Mig-21 in current BF edition.

The problem that I see however and would love it to be addressed somehow is that having only MiG-15/Sabre (MiG-21/F-5E) leave each side with only a single flyable airplane apart of choppers.

It would be great to experience a dedicated Korea and Vietnam battlefields but at the moment I just think that there are not enough flyable units to provide sufficient variety for more than just relatively simple MP missions.

 

EDIT: This is why it's great to reflect the historicall settings but we have to consider what is available in DCS at the moment.

Edited August 9, 2016 by firmek

[QuiGon]

I agree that mixing the 1'st and 3'd generation is an issue. It's actually the same today as there is not much incentive to fly Mig-21 in current BF edition.

The problem that I see however and would love it to be addressed somehow is that having only MiG-15/Sabre (MiG-21/F-5E) leave each side with only a single flyable airplane apart of choppers.

It would be great to experience a dedicated Korea and Vietnam battlefields but at the moment I just think that there are not enough flyable units to provide sufficient variety for more than just relatively simple MP missions.

 

EDIT: This is why it's great to reflect the historicall settings but we have to consider what is available in DCS at the moment.

 

We have more than that. The P-51 fought in Korea too ;). And soon there will be the F4U Corsair as well.

 

Apart from that, have you participated in Case Blue (the WW2 Blue Flag round)? It worked great, even though we were limited to just 3 aircraft. :)

 

 

@buddyspike team: So, Korea next? :joystick:

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Quigons right. The Case Blue version worked well and with fewer units this could address the issues in BF. It really evens out the playing field as the 15 and 86 are out of beta and there are next to no playable issues with either the F5 or the 21 that break the game or the balance. Only thing I could see needing to change that would be taking maybe the R3R away from the mig and just keeping the cruddy sar missiles now or just doing away with MRMs completely. I think that F5v21 IR only would be tits.

 

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[Caffeine_High]

We have more than that. The P-51 fought in Korea too ;). And soon there will be the F4U Corsair as well.

 

Apart from that, have you participated in Case Blue (the WW2 Blue Flag round)? It worked great, even though we were limited to just 3 aircraft. :)

 

 

@buddyspike team: So, Korea next? :joystick:

 

Just to be clear, I am not affiliated with buddyspike.net

[Pikey]

I was thinking, with the current altitude requirements of the Red team being nothing required over nap of the earth, wouldn't putting in high value high level air assets be a lot more fun to the contest, giving fighters something other to do than look for other fighters at very low level?

 

From a strategic point of view a respawning tanker/awacs could be made into a gameplay goal that actually might force the elevation of combat up slightly and put the cat amongst the pidgeons, whilst giving fighters perhaps a more interesting interdiction mission?

 

In other things I read I thought it was good to bump a post by Smile on the Buddy spike forums where he suggested we align personal lives to the value of the aircraft as a way of reducing the currently played quantity of all top line fighters and pushing people to fly the less capable ones and think more strategically about their own gameplay. Anything that reduces the overal count of 15's and 27's in the air and adds diversity of planes like F5 and 21 would be good to mix it up else it will always come down to top line vs top line fighter and the life system where it shares the number with all fighters is just irrelevant because there's little point in taking knives to a gun fight.

[firmek]

We have more than that. The P-51 fought in Korea too . And soon there will be the F4U Corsair as well. Apart from that, have you participated in Case Blue (the WW2 Blue Flag round)? It worked great, even though we were limited to just 3 aircraft.

If I understand correctly there is no chance that we'll see the Corsair before 1.5 and 2.0 merge which is not happening soon.

Historical Korea setup as also a dedicated Vietnam would be great. Actually any change from a modern aircrafts would be probably appreciated. I didn't had an opportunity to participate in Case Blue but I'm sure that BS Team must have done a great job there.

Maybe with the flyable modules the situation is not actually so bad right now. There are perfectly matching airplanes from the era for each side. Still it will be interesting to see how the challenges with extremely sparse availability of the ground and air AI units will be addressed.

 

...Only thing I could see needing to change that would be taking maybe the R3R away from the mig and just keeping the cruddy sar missiles now or just doing away with MRMs completely. I think that F5v21 IR only would be tits.

Whichever the setup would be, Korea or Vietnam I would suggest to leave the planes as they are to their full capability.

It's kind of suppressing that it's possible to go into "balancing" topic with just two planes that are a matching opponents perfectly from the same timelines. Let's not start the discussion about removing something from one or the other as doing so usually quickly turns the threads into another "120C vs R27R/T" like soap opera. Next we’ll end up with request to remove the RWR from F-5E, equipping it with missiles that it wasn’t able to carry or putting lead bards into MiG-21 cockpit :D

[firmek]

I was thinking, with the current altitude requirements of the Red team being nothing required over nap of the earth, wouldn't putting in high value high level air assets be a lot more fun to the contest, giving fighters something other to do than look for other fighters at very low level?

 

From a strategic point of view a respawning tanker/awacs could be made into a gameplay goal that actually might force the elevation of combat up slightly and put the cat amongst the pidgeons, whilst giving fighters perhaps a more interesting interdiction mission?

 

In other things I read I thought it was good to bump a post by Smile on the Buddy spike forums where he suggested we align personal lives to the value of the aircraft as a way of reducing the currently played quantity of all top line fighters and pushing people to fly the less capable ones and think more strategically about their own gameplay. Anything that reduces the overal count of 15's and 27's in the air and adds diversity of planes like F5 and 21 would be good to mix it up else it will always come down to top line vs top line fighter and the life system where it shares the number with all fighters is just irrelevant because there's little point in taking knives to a gun fight.

+1. Great ideas. The AWACS would introduce some diversity. Maybe an crazy and not possible to realize idea but why not to associate the AWACS with GCI frequency in SR. There could be 2 AWACS - east and west for both teams at the same time in air. If it's lost the team would also lose the corresponding GCI in SR untill a new AWACS is not operational.

Considering the tickets level the split between attack aircrafts and transport choppers has already prooved that the concept and implementation works. Why not to take it to the next level.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

If I understand correctly there is no chance that we'll see the Corsair before 1.5 and 2.0 merge which is not happening soon.

Historical Korea setup as also a dedicated Vietnam would be great. Actually any change from a modern aircrafts would be probably appreciated. I didn't had an opportunity to participate in Case Blue but I'm sure that BS Team must have done a great job there.

Maybe with the flyable modules the situation is not actually so bad right now. There are perfectly matching airplanes from the era for each side. Still it will be interesting to see how the challenges with extremely sparse availability of the ground and air AI units will be addressed.

 

 

Whichever the setup would be, Korea or Vietnam I would suggest to leave the planes as they are to their full capability.

It's kind of suppressing that it's possible to go into "balancing" topic with just two planes that are a matching opponents perfectly from the same timelines. Let's not start the discussion about removing something from one or the other as doing so usually quickly turns the threads into another "120C vs R27R/T" like soap opera. Next we’ll end up with request to remove the RWR from F-5E, equipping it with missiles that it wasn’t able to carry or putting lead bards into MiG-21 cockpit :D

I'm just looking at it as if I were to play my mig. I'd want a sporting chance for the f5s

 

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[Jugdriver]

Whichever the setup would be, Korea or Vietnam I would suggest to leave the planes as they are to their full capability.

 

I would not go that far, no nuclear weapons for the Mig 21.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[Pikey]

Just notice here that the 42VFG who had registered en masse as blue for rounds 1-8 are now defunct and split into 333VFG and The Taylor Swift Fan Club [TSFC].

TSFC is now registering for the Red side and wishes their forum access to bluefor and TS channel kindly revoked. Individuals will contact on the BS forum for username changes.

[RvE Ikillu]

We should have at least a tanker track or two for CAP planes to refuel at instead of flying all the way back to base. The GCI should be able to move them in the event that they push farther.

[Chrinik]

In a situation where there is a F-15 and a Mig 29 at an F-5s 12 o’clock and at 10 miles and in close proximity and the F-5 has them both on radar it cannot determine which one is friendly and which one is foe thru its radar and vector its attack towards the foe, in the same situation the 21 can see on its radar which one is the foe and attack it, the 21 has better SA in this situation.

 

When an aircraft does not have its radar on, like a lot of 29 and 27 pilots like to do, the F-5 cannot see them on the RWR and its radar will only tell him there is a contact out front but it cannot distinguish friend from foe, the Mig 21 however can with it's IFF, the Mig has better SA in this situation. Sure the F-5 pilot can assume that any aircraft that does not have its radar on is an enemy but that’s not too smart with A-10’s and friendly helicopters around.

 

That brings up the attack aircraft, the F-5 can see a SU-25 and an A-10 on radar but it can’t distinguish which one would be friend or foe without getting close, the Mig 21 can see both on its radar but it will also know the A-10 is an enemy aircraft before the pilot can see it clearly, the Mig 21 has better SA in this situation.

 

Same goes for helicopters, the F-5 can see them on radar but does not know if it is a friend or foe without getting close, again the Mig 21 has better SA in this situation.

 

So I will qualify my statement a bit, the F-5 in most situations on the Blue Flag server round 8 will not have better SA than the Mig 21.

 

The RWR in the F-5 is not some type of SA silver bullet, it only shows the pilot part of the picture, the other big piece of virtual air combat, who to shoot at, has to be done with the MkI eyeball in the F-5 which means you have to get close, or get shot at yourslef to know for sure who is a friend and who is the enemy.

 

I will forgo the back at you, stupid slap on the forehead Emoticon as it does not advance the conversation and only adds to forum hostility.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

This all assumes you are a deaf-mute and can´t talk to your GCI...which is supposed to provide you with long range SA regarding radar contacts.

 

Yes, the F-5 is a visual fighter, you can also tell enemy from friendly by flare drop patterns, overall behaviour and such.

 

Other then that, nothing wrong with getting close to a suspected target.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Chrinik

[Banzaiib]

I gave it a good effort, but the IR A-A missle configuration is not going to work for round nine in its current setup. Blue will get steam rolled. The only hope an F-15 has against a 27 right now is if the 27 is flying too fast and cant turn inside the F-15 for the 2nd volley of IR missiles... any competent 27 pilot is going to be shooting fish in a barrel.

 

Here are some suggestions: YMMV

 

1. Limit blue to aim-9p (turns like a barge) and red to r-60

2. take away all a-a missiles (probably not popular)

3. give M2000C to blue... red gets 29S, 29A, 27, M2k... blue gets only F-15

[QuiGon]

I gave it a good effort, but the IR A-A missle configuration is not going to work for round nine in its current setup. Blue will get steam rolled. The only hope an F-15 has against a 27 right now is if the 27 is flying too fast and cant turn inside the F-15 for the 2nd volley of IR missiles... any competent 27 pilot is going to be shooting fish in a barrel.

 

Here are some suggestions: YMMV

 

1. Limit blue to aim-9p (turns like a barge) and red to r-60

2. take away all a-a missiles (probably not popular)

3. give M2000C to blue... red gets 29S, 29A, 27, M2k... blue gets only F-15

 

The current concept in the testing phase is not even close to the concept for round 9. So don't worry.

I hope there won't be 4th gen aircraft at all in round 9 (Korea or Vietnam concept). :)

[gregzagk]

The current concept in the testing phase is not even close to the concept for round 9. So don't worry.

I hope there won't be 4th gen aircraft at all in round 9 (Korea or Vietnam concept). :)

 

You are wrong :D

In my posts I say that we have the current setup up and it's highly possible it will change cause we didn't discuss yet to take the final decision.

 

That doesn't mean this won't be the final setup or that we will go for another one. We work on other things also in the background so we just have the server up with this one now.

 

We will decide soon so no worries.

 

Greg

[QuiGon]

You are wrong :D

In my posts I say that we have the current setup up and it's highly possible it will change cause we didn't discuss yet to take the final decision.

 

That doesn't mean this won't be the final setup or that we will go for another one. We work on other things also in the background so we just have the server up with this one now.

 

We will decide soon so no worries.

 

Greg

 

But you said:

As said before this is not close to the final concept.

:huh:

[gregzagk]

But you said:

 

:huh:

 

You didn't quote what I "said before" :D.

We will know shortly depending on our free time and schedule that works along with the others things we prepare.

 

Greg

 

 

The 9th round concept along with our other moves will be finalised in the upcoming days.

 

For now we uploaded new mission files of Blue Flag that help us testing until we prepare things and mostly to have fun.

This is not the final concept of the 9th round though and it will propably change (small changes or completely depending on our final discussions).

 

As said before this is not close to the final concept. Let's get in for some dogfights

 

Greg