DCS: Me 262 Discussion (Development on hold currently)

[Vitormouraa]

Yeah but I am talking about performance.

[Kippy]

Ah. Performance wise, the 262 does take quite a long time to get up to the proper airspeed, and during that time she is very vulnerable. You won't see a 262 depart from a frontline base - they will generally takeoff behind the lines, thus allowing them time to build up airspeed and altitude to their advantage. The 262's required time to "wind up," if you will, is it's Achilles Heel, engine problems aside. However, if the 262 is allowed this time, it becomes a very scary machine. I don't really want to repeat what I said a few pages back in this thread, but put simply, If the 262 is engaging fighters that are dogfighting, the 262 controls the entire fight. They will use their high speed to slash in and out the furball rather than dogfight, tagging a target of opportunity every pass. Slash in, shoot one down, fly 4000 yards out, turn back in... rinse and repeat. If you don't remain vigilant of the enemy 262's position, chances are he will tag you in his pass for failing to maneuver evasively when he begins his slash into the fight. Due to their high speed, their trigger time is small and you don't exactly need to take billy-big-boy-steps to get out of their way during their pass. However, even with short trigger time, the guns are 30mm and fire Minengeschoß and HEI shells.. chances are, only one or two of them actually need to connect and the target is bust. Truthfully, if you remain vigilant of their position and when they run in, you should be able to evade rather easily and the 262 simply becomes little more than a minor inconvenience.

 

Any 262 pilot who chooses to dogfight rather than boom and zoom is choosing death. The 262 isn't exactly highly maneuverable, and should be an easy pick should the pilot throw his energy away. If you catch a 262 with his pants down at low speed, if he doesn't have altitude, he's not going to build speed in time to run away from you.

 

As for engaging bombers, the 262s will likely try to approach high and from the front, aiming for a diving pass on nose of the aircraft near the cockpit - the fastest way to remove a B-17 from flight... aim for the pilots and the controls of the bomber. Sometimes you will also see brave 262 pilots diving through the boxes aiming for the wings of bombers; big targets that often collapse when hit with 30mm shells.

[Koty]

Just watched a documentary about this !

Incidentally, the reason for this "feature" of the engine was lack of access to exotic metal alloys out which to build specific parts (e.g. turbine blades, exhaust nozzles?) that could withstand the high temperatures, like chromium (which was only produced by Turkey and was firmly in British hands). The Me-262 was forced to use steel, which needed to be treated very delicately, and even then required complete replacement after 10 flights.

 

Not really, it could be fixed by changing the shape of the blades, but little did German experts know. Comming from research from late 1940's in Czechoslovakia - a bunch of engineers that has never seen a jet in their life fixed it in about a year.

 

 

As for turn rate - what matters is its terrible sustained turn. Not to mention that the speed was not really that high, acceleration - and now I am not accounting for the engine handling - was also low.

 

Slashing in and out won't really work - as you have to turn around at some point. And if I take the old IL-2 sim as a sort of a semi-reference, you get to around 2.5 G at 570 km/h for a sustained turn at sea level. Yes - that is both low airspeed and wide turning radius (someone can actually calculate how wide that would be). If it is going to be anything like that, you are in for one hell of a ride :helpsmilie:

[Kippy]

Koty, I can assure you that the 262 is not slow by any means. It will outrun nearly anything, the only obvious threat I remember were Typhoons and Tempests when they had altitude as they retained speed pretty well. A P-51D or 109K-4 simply will not catch it outside of a dive, and will not keep up with it for long in a dive regardless. 262's don't use sharp maneuvers in any circumstance, always maintaining high airspeed by keeping their turns to a very wide radius. Any 262 pilot worth his salt will refuse to allow the aircraft below 375 mp/h when the enemy is around. The priority of flying is stay alive and then fight. A smart 262 pilot will never give up airspeed for a turn, because that's prioritizing fighting over holding onto the thing that keeps them alive - airspeed.

 

Not to be rude, but.. 570 km/h is slow for a 262, but for prop driven aircraft? I think not.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Kippy

[Kurfürst]

The Me 262 is basically four K-4s doing diving attacks at you all the time...

[rel4y]

What happened to your website Kurfürst? I can't find it anymore and I need it for my daily fix of 109 flight tests. :)

[Koty]

Koty, I can assure you that the 262 is not slow by any means. It will outrun nearly anything, the only obvious threat I remember were Typhoons and Tempests when they had altitude as they retained speed pretty well. A P-51D or 109K-4 simply will not catch it outside of a dive, and will not keep up with it for long in a dive regardless. 262's don't use sharp maneuvers in any circumstance, always maintaining high airspeed by keeping their turns to a very wide radius. Any 262 pilot worth his salt will refuse to allow the aircraft below 375 mp/h when the enemy is around. The priority of flying is stay alive and then fight. A smart 262 pilot will never give up airspeed for a turn, because that's prioritizing fighting over holding onto the thing that keeps them alive - airspeed.

 

Not to be rude, but.. 570 km/h is slow for a 262, but for prop driven aircraft? I think not.

 

I was reacting to the slashing attacks, shooting down a fighter plane in a 262 will be a show of skill. As for the air speed, sure, you can go faster, but the G's won't increase, 3G's is basically the maximum you should ever be able to pull off. Well, you could in theory pull harder but...you would lose a ton of speed. 570 would be the tightest I was able to do. In theory, you could fight a Mustang but... you would need someone to keep your 6 clear.

 

EDIT: Either way, let's wait how it turns out.

[OnlyforDCS]

3G's is basically the maximum you should ever be able to pull off. Well, you could in theory pull harder but...you would lose a ton of speed.

 

It all depends. If you are much higher than your intended target or pursuer, for example at the top arc of a High YoYo, you are already slow so pulling harder to get back into an attacking dive is not that much of a penalty as you will quickly regain that lost speed in the dive. Energy fighting is difficult but if you are smart about it you can quickly figure out the do's and don'ts.

[QuiGon]

Does anyone know of a startup video of a Me 262 with original cockpit?

 

I just saw the following startup video, but was a bit disappointed by the reworked cockpit which seems to have almost nothing in common with the original 262 cockpit:

 

Then I found this video which seems to have a pretty legacy cockpit, but you can't really see much of it due to the camera position:

(I actually don't know how a legacy 262 cockpit looks, but this one seems legit, judging from what I'm used to in the 109 and 190)

 

So I wonder if there is any video out there showing the startup process in a legacy cockpit?

[Vitormouraa]

I dont think the startup is the same, the Jumo used a small piston engine to spin the compressor until a certain RPM, these Me-262 replicas use two J85, which probably uses compressed air which spins an air turbine starter.

[Vincent90]

If I were you, I would request the official trainingsfilm from the Bundesarchiv. It saves you a lot of time and effort filtering the crap available online.

[QuiGon]

If I were you, I would request the official trainingsfilm from the Bundesarchiv. It saves you a lot of time and effort filtering the crap available online.

But I want colors and HD... :pilotfly:

[some1]

I'm not sure if there's any working example of jumo 004, definitely not a flying one. These engines didn't last long. I posted a startup procedure in this thread a while ago: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2630437&postcount=85

[Dieter]

But I want colors and HD... :pilotfly:

 

You will get it when you will post a tutorial lol :music_whistling:

[QuiGon]

Well, this discussion got pretty focused on the engines, but what I want to see is in action is the original cockpit, not the engines.

[frixon28]

Any interest really in the Me-262 A-2a??

[eelcoool]

do we have some more news on this bird?

 

 

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[Hummingbird]

I'm not sure if there's any working example of jumo 004, definitely not a flying one. These engines didn't last long. I posted a startup procedure in this thread a while ago: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2630437&postcount=85

 

They did if made from the materials intended, so reproducing a reliable one is entirely possible, just insanely costly.

[cmeliak]

have you seen the last newsletter guys? no plans for me262 next year again :(

[.Tigre.]

have you seen the last newsletter guys? no plans for me262 next year again :(

 

Yeah, I saw, I think that for this airplane we'll have to wait a long time, always naturally if it comes out because, unfortunately, I'm afraid we'll never see it .... sin ..:(

 

:thumbup:

[cmeliak]

I can remember 3D model pictures in some news letters so they’ve been doing something and feels like it should be next year but it probably takes more time.

[Silver_Dragon]

I can remember 3D model pictures in some news letters so they’ve been doing something and feels like it should be next year but it probably takes more time.

 

No official Me262 external model was show on a official newsletter by ED or Ugla Media. The only pics was a very old cockpit 3D models some years ago before Bf-109 or Fw190. Actually, waiting news about them.

[cmeliak]

Ok, sorry for a confusion here, I am an old man :)

[Buzzles]

Yes please, I'd like to see a similar view to the below in DCS, preferably with a reticle in the middle :)

 

 

(RAF Museum Cosford in the UK if anyone's interested)

Edited April 10, 2018 by Buzzles

[Pasquale1986]

Exactly, the reticle of a P-47D-30 please! But the crossing Sopwith Camel would be distracting :D