il_corleone Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Hello gentlemend and ladies. Yesterday and the day before I have been flying this beauty, while taking some peek on the forums. For my surprise I found tons and tons of people criticising in a very rude form, those onse were a little among the guys that were actually helping and reporting bugs. Well, First of all thank you for reading this post, sometimes I am lazy too and start finish reading on the first 2 lines, this post is not going to say anithing like you need to do X but Y, I am going to express my opinion in the best form, and this form is titled in favour of the Mirage seeing some of the posts here. I am not going to start in what Beta or Alpha means, I will just say that the product is not finished, I knew it, and it is what they should it was. After being so hyped about the plane I read many posts, some of them where indicating what things will work on beta and what things wont. I was amused about how the devs were in contact with us, how they gave us a manual before the launch... Now, for me, the product is what I expecting, a diamond that needs to shape, but this no means is bad or good, is great and it needs that touch from the devs, that love , and all those updates that will make it in one of the finest. People are continuosly talking about this thing doesent work, this thinkg X this thing Y, Why do you still with those things, in 90% of the time, people that read the forum knew that that thing was not going to work! People will always find words to critisize and is normal, but I think we should see the good points of the prodcut now... Yesterday, I was with some friends, taking off, we were going to do some CAS, and the other Mirage were going to scort us.. I felt that moment belong to falcon, but I was in DCS, setting the radar on silece, seeing what path we were going to make... (I have most of the modules unless the trainers, and I didnt have that sensation before) I had the feeling of a really 4 Gen fighter, (Multi role) with dumb bobms.. At the end, we destroyed our target using that CCRP, while the other covered us, launching their 530D so the enemy ran away,,, I mean, we need to enjoy the aircraft! this hobby has few names! we need to love the work and the most important, help them to make a good prodcut, people that hate an aircraft because it doesent have IFF (Wich was announced before launch that it wont work) is not helping! ,Why staying in the iff and not testing other things, enjoy fliying a little... About the FM, first of all Im gonna say I really like it, I felt the FBW and of course is above any SFM.... people complain about the "cobra" without the FBW, they can fix that, I Remember the mig 21 doing strange things on launch, or the above the 20.000 feet, well it will need some love, and the devs will make it! And about the characteristis that needs to be added, just watch Mi8, it has been like that, while the devs added updates time and time.. People loves to complain because they love the module, or because they dont have the F18 and they want it the moment a 4 Gen fighter was announce as the "Mirage" (I love all the modules, Comparing them is just an example) for this I say, we must make a Honest view, of what it takes to have the first module on DCS, to seeing the dev as a new one and not comparing the other releases, we are a great comunity (Sometimes :megalol: ) and is in our hads to help eachother and devs in making every module in a Diamond. I want to say thank you for reading! and sorry for my English! 6
Sporg Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Thank you for a very sensible post. :) System specs: Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440) Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use
TomCatMucDe Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 thanks for the post. I couldnt put it better. We have to remember that this is the first plane of Razbam in DCS. They could have kept it in their labs for much longer like ED and other devs do, but they chose to give us an early access, something we wanted and some of us begged for. For those who want only complete products and dont think that its for customers to help polishing a product, fair enough, you can consider that product hasnt been out yet and wait a bit longer. I am confident that we will have a marvellous sim of the Mirage in a few months.
boedha68 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Kind words:thumbup: Newest system: AMD 9800X3d, Kingsting 128 GBDDR5, MSI RTX 5090(ready for buying), Corsair 150 Pro, 3xSamsung 970 Pro, Logitech X-56 HOTAS, Pimax Crystal Light (Super is purchased) ASUS 1200 Watt. New system:I9-9900KS, Kingston 128 GB DDR4 3200Mhz, MSI RTX 4090, Corsair H150 Pro RGB, 2xSamsung 970 EVO 2Tb, 2xsamsung 970 EVO 1 TB, Scandisk m2 500 MB, 2 x Crucial 1 Tb, T16000M HOTAS, HP Reverb Professional 2, Corsair 750 Watt. Old system:I7-4770K(OC 4.5Ghz), Kingston 24 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz,MSI RTX 2080(OC 2070 Mhz), 2 * 500 GB SSD, 3,5 TB HDD, 55' Samsung 3d tv, Trackir 5, Logitech HD Cam, T16000M HOTAS. All DCS modules, maps and campaigns:pilotfly:
ineth Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 very well put. Greek/German origin. Flying sims since 1984. Using computers since 1977. Favored FS's:F/A18 Interceptor, F19 Stealth Fighter, Gunnship, F16 Combat Pilot, Flight of the Intruder, A320, Falcon 4.0, MSFS 2004-X, DCS
Brisse Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) They were honest about the state of the module at open "beta" release. We that are regulars on the forums knew what we were getting. But on the other hand, think about all the people that aren't forum regulars. How would they know what to expect? I can sympathize a little bit with them, but I don't like seeing the rude posts on the forum created by some of them. I think it's a communication problem. Sure, the forum regulars such as ourselves have been able to communicate with the devs, but not much was done outside of that. What about putting more information about it's state in the newsletter and module store page? There was nothing there except a "beta" tag, which wasn't enough in my opinion. A few words about what systems would work and what the future plans were would have been a nice gesture. Edited December 27, 2015 by Brisse
LuSi_6 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I uninstalled FC3! It's only Mirage and MiG-21 for me when I want some TopGun feeling. For oldschool dogfight I still fly the Sabre and the MiG-15. I do not see the Mirage worse than those Modules! Lacking features will come as time goes, and for me as a single player guy the god damm IFF is no issue. I like it. I like it a lot! :pilotfly: Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pedals, Oculus Rift :joystick:
il_corleone Posted December 27, 2015 Author Posted December 27, 2015 They were honest about the state of the module at open "beta" release. We that are regulars on the forums knew what we were getting. But on the other hand, think about all the people that aren't forum regulars. How would they know what to expect? I can sympathize a little bit with them, but I don't like seeing the rude posts on the forum created by some of them. I think it's a communication problem. Sure, the forum regulars such as ourselves have been able to communicate with the devs, but not much was done outside of that. What about putting more information about it's state in the newsletter and module store page? There was nothing there except a "beta" tag, which wasn't enough in my opinion. A few words about what systems would work and what the future plans were would have been a nice gesture. Well Brisse, I have to disagree with that, when you buy something, you ((Should) search info about it. On the module page says more info on the forum, and it links you to this forum, and on the first page there was a post named "What features we can expect for beta" and something like that, Zeus itself posted a list. Thanks everybody for understand me! :)
whitehot Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 bought the 2000 yesterday, was expecting lots of inoperative things so I won't complain. This AC feels pretty good and it gives out the impression that it's gonna be a very good module - apart from this, not too much to add - in fact I think I'll start learning it when there's something more in it, right now I don't believe it's the right time yet. I generally agree with the OP, but in fact I have some kind of "complain": I believe that in the latest years the terms "alpha", "beta", "open beta" and the like have been used in a very undiscriminate way. Those terms were invented by the software industry to define various states of a determinate piece of software that was still not finished - that still had not reached v1.0. I believe that having different terms to apply to an early release was made with the intent of giving users something "certain" on what to expect from the software: Alpha does not mean "This is very unfinished" and beta "this is less unfinished". I mean, the term should describe more particularly what kind of functionality has been reached and what is still undeveloped or needs debugging. Right now, seems to me that developers and software houses are basically using the terms as a warning that goes like "you are not getting the full software, and you do it at your own "risk". This is also what I can understand about the point user Brisse made - I believe he/she was asking for a little more clarity about what to expect from what's called "beta" or "alpha" etc [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Intel i7 6700K @ 4.2, MSI M5 Z170A Gaming, NZXT X61 Kraken liquid cooler, PNY Nvidia GTX 1080 Founders Edition, 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 Mhz C15, samsung 840 evo SSD, CoolerMaster 1000W Gold rated PSU, NZXT Noctis 450 cabinet, Samsung S240SW 24' 1920x1200 LED panel, X-52 Pro Flight stick. W10 Pro x64 1809, NO antivirus EVER
Dav IRL Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 It will no doubt be a beauty when polished. Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk 4.8 I7, 1080, TMW&T, SSD, VKB MK.IV.
myHelljumper Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 +1 to OP, the devs have done their job, now it's for us to do ours BETA-TEST !!:D Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA
Cowboy10uk Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Yes, there are some issues that's for sure, however it is their first DCS aircraft so that was to be expected. I will admit to being rather embarrassed by some of the posts that were posted yesterday, as some were downright rude and it's amazing just how many qualified Mirage pilots we have in the community. However that said, let's think of the positives, the more we break or find broken now, the better the aircraft will be overtime. I just hope this dosnt put Razbam and the team off. Sadly there will always be a vocal minority who will complain loudly about everything, whereas those of us who are quite content are quiet as we are enjoying outer time flying. So guys, let's get testing and breaking, good quality bug reports are what is important at this time. Cowboy10uk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Fighter pilots make movies, Attack pilots make history, Helicopter pilots make heros. :pilotfly: Corsair 570x Crystal Case, Intel 8700K O/clocked to 4.8ghz, 32GB Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 3200 MHZ Ram, 2 x 1TB M2 drives, 2 x 4TB Hard Drives, Nvidia EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW, Maximus x Hero MB, H150i Cooler, 6 x Corsair LL120 RGB Fans And a bloody awful Pilot :doh:
whitehot Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 +1 to OP, the devs have done their job, now it's for us to do ours BETA-TEST !!:D no complaining intended but.. it's alarming how common the concept "pay to work" is becoming.. yaya I know, nobody forces you to do that.. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Intel i7 6700K @ 4.2, MSI M5 Z170A Gaming, NZXT X61 Kraken liquid cooler, PNY Nvidia GTX 1080 Founders Edition, 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 Mhz C15, samsung 840 evo SSD, CoolerMaster 1000W Gold rated PSU, NZXT Noctis 450 cabinet, Samsung S240SW 24' 1920x1200 LED panel, X-52 Pro Flight stick. W10 Pro x64 1809, NO antivirus EVER
Farlander Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 no complaining intended but.. it's alarming how common the concept "pay to work" is becoming.. yaya I know, nobody forces you to do that.. well.. kind of.. although, this is probably in his mind not "work" :D
USAFMTL Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) Haterade.... By the Gallon? My rant hat ON + Plus this is not for the old heads who knew what they were doing when they bought it. This is for the people who blindly bought it and then opened a bottle of Haterade. You all should of known what you were getting into when you bought it as a beta. Period, point blank, start up the bus, go home..... It's a beta, a BETA, A BETA!!!! What did you expect? It's a BETA. Now cue the people saying "Well I thought it would be in this state of release...." Please define what is supposed to work in a beta and not the end users definition, what the industries official definition is, anyone, anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller, Bueller. Now having reminded you all of that, Ron and his crew will fix it. Until them fly it, report bugs if you wish too. Just remember, you chose to buy it as a beta. Therefore you have to take that with the stuff that does and does not work. il_corleone good post, some people need to read it a few times. Edited December 27, 2015 by USAFMTL spelling [sigpic][/sigpic] US Air Force Retired, 1C371 No rank or title will ever be as important as the unit patch you wear.
Steel Jaw Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 OMG...folks complaining about the state of a beta product...if you bought beta knowing it was beta YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. SIGH. "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB.
USAFMTL Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 OMG...folks complaining about the state of a beta product...if you bought beta knowing it was beta YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. SIGH. ^ BOOM!!!!!!!!!!! THIS........... [sigpic][/sigpic] US Air Force Retired, 1C371 No rank or title will ever be as important as the unit patch you wear.
Dennis Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Nicely writen. I agree with the most of it. I hope the work will go on. I have an issue with the rudder. It is not working with the Z and X on keyboard. Is it a bug or some mailfunction? Sent from my SM-N910F
derelor Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 ... I have an issue with the rudder. It is not working with the Z and X on keyboard. Is it a bug or some mailfunction? http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=156417 1338 - beyond leet ED Forum rules EN|DE|RU
Deezle Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) The M-2000C is quickly becoming my favorite module. My only real gripe so far is lack of mapable controls. I took some of the keyboard only ones and made them usable on my joystick/throttle/panels, but lots of stuff (the radar controls most notably) is not mapable yet. I also find it a shame that the (real plane) designers limited the slick mk82 to CCRP only, CCIP with mk82s would easily be the most accurate delivery of unguided bombs, no matter what it seems there's always a silly compromise made :( I'm really loving this plane and can't wait for more updates from RAZBAM! Edited December 27, 2015 by Deezle Intel 9600K@4.7GHz, Asus Z390, 64GB DDR4, EVGA RTX 3070, Custom Water Cooling, 970 EVO 1TB NVMe 34" UltraWide 3440x1440 Curved Monitor, 21" Touch Screen MFD monitor, TIR5 My Pit Build, Moza AB9 FFB w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals/Damper, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer
il_corleone Posted December 27, 2015 Author Posted December 27, 2015 The M-2000C is quickly becoming my favorite module. My only real gripe so far is lack of mapable controls. I took some of the keyboard only ones and made them usable on my joystick/throttle/panels, but lots of stuff (the radar controls most notably) is not mapable yet. I also find it a shame that the (real plane) designers limited the slick mk82 to CCRP only, CCIP with mk82s would easily be the most accurate delivery of unguided bombs, no matter what it seems there's always a silly compromise made :( I'm really loving this plane and can't wait for more updates from RAZBAM! Did you try the CCRP mode? I was able to hit targets with precission droping bomb in pairs! it works great! maybe yes, I miss the CCIP one!
dotChuckles Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I also think people are having a disconnect between what they are expecting it to fly like and what a FBW aircraft actually flies like. Other then the Su27 there isn't really a fully FBW airframe in the sim. I think what RAZBAM have done is superb. I wasn't sure if I was going to enjoy the M2000c but it's fast becoming a favourite now. A pure joy to dogfight in. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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