S530 Range

[Brisse]

In fact, it appear that S-530D should be slightly better than AIM-7 since S-530D has a better maximum speed (which mean less drag or better propulsion)..

 

Look at the total weight and diameter and you can easily come to the conclusion that it's probably draggier but has more thrust. That could lead to higher top speed, but speed will drop faster after the burn is complete, which could actually hurt the long range performance.

[Slipp]

6nm-8nm effective range out of supposed 28nm max range is a bit strange, isn't it?

[Brisse]

6nm-8nm effective range out of supposed 28nm max range is a bit strange, isn't it?

 

Apples and oranges. High and low altitude. Hot or cold aspect. Etc...

[Aginor]

Depends on the altitude. At high altitude the answer is yes IMO.

EDIT: sniped.

[sedenion]

At 40.000 ft, on a cold target (an IL76 flying at 600km/h ok, not an Mig31 at Mach 3.0), the maximum range is nearly 9nm... more than 9nm, the missile could not reach the target...

 

9 nm / 28 nm... are we sure that is normal, even on a cold target ?

 

The Super-530D is supposed to have a great climb performance, and reach targets starting from medium altitude to end at high altitude... What i see is that it just goes on strait line like an arrow without trying to get altitude to get potential energy, is that normal ?

 

Please ED, tell us the S-530D flight model is in Beta (or even Alpha) phase...

Edited December 28, 2015 by sedenion

[*Rage*]

9nm sounds pretty good for a cold target. Inline with other missiles.

[Rlaxoxo]

9nm sounds pretty good for a cold target. Inline with other missiles.

 

Nah bro, you're not deceiving anyone here

[Croaker47]

Effective range (Let's presume that's Maneuver Range) is usually half of operational, and T&R is typically less than that. The question should be, at what range does the missile (Not relative to the target) simply stop (Out of energy, not spoofed) in various environments. I'm pretty sure the Max Range on a missile is not based on aspect; that's what a DLZ is for.

 

As for the whole, 9nm thing. Is that the range you fired? The target is moving at roughly 166m/s, and roughly 30m/s will get you 1nm/m. So roughly every ten seconds you add another nautical mile to range traveled. From there, you apply all the external forces on the missile during the flight duration of flight.

 

The flight of an SARH missile initially depends, but typically it ends up riding a pure pursuit course in which it just tries to stay pointed at the target, and reading its reflection. Depending on how the missile boosts and sustains, it can just be losing energy like crazy the entire way just to stay on target.

 

Again, not an expert, but something to consider. I have no clue what the missile's real stats are.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Dragoon47

[Brisse]

Nah bro, you're not deceiving anyone here

 

Seems reasonable to me. Remember, the target was flying away from him. If it was head on he would have been able to engage at almost twice that distance.

[Zeus67]

Be aware that firing in pursuit mode, the range decreases considerably. The missile burns all its fuel in 8 seconds, afterwards it is traveling by pure inertia and slows down due to atmospheric friction.

[PitbullVicious]

For what it's worth (maybe around 3 of your now obsolete francs :) ), I tested the 530 against a hot Tu-22M3 @ 40,000ft and managed to get a kill from around 25.8nm with the Tu-22M3 pumping chaffs and evading.

[Croaker47]

Be aware that firing in pursuit mode, the range decreases considerably. The missile burns all its fuel in 8 seconds, afterwards it is traveling by pure inertia and slows down due to atmospheric friction.

 

So it's a pure boost configuration then? That definitely explains its high top speed. And at some point the missile is going to have a high enough AOA that the drag will be considerable, and it would hardly be able to maneuver at all.

 

What's the current fuzing for it, by the way? Is it proximity-fused?

 

Here I am, picking your brain again. :P

[Brisse]

Well there you go. That's what I call excellent results PitbullVicious :)

[Rlaxoxo]

Be aware that firing in pursuit mode, the range decreases considerably. The missile burns all its fuel in 8 seconds, afterwards it is traveling by pure inertia and slows down due to atmospheric friction.

 

Yes exactly and problem is that the "Pure inertia" and "atmospheric friction" values are way to high

 

I fire off my missile and I see it going for couple of seconds and after it's 4 km in front of me the missile looks just like it stops in dead air and I overtake it.

 

And after I overtake it, it explodes of to my sides

 

I just don't believe that missile without engine going at 4 kph can slow down to 1 kph in couple of seconds and then fall from the sky

[Zeus67]

So it's a pure boost configuration then? That definitely explains its high top speed. And at some point the missile is going to have a high enough AOA that the drag will be considerable, and it would hardly be able to maneuver at all.

 

What's the current fuzing for it, by the way? Is it proximity-fused?

 

Here I am, picking your brain again. :P

 

Ouch! :wallbash: Mixed my missiles.

 

The F is 8 seconds, the D is 10 seconds: 4 boost and 6 sustain.

I think it is a proximity fuze, not sure without my notes.

 

FWIW, my own tests as shown me that at 10,000 feet or less 5nmiles or less will get you a kill, either with the first or a second shot.

 

Missile has around 40% kill ratio which is in line with other missiles like the AIM-7M.

[Zeus67]

Yes exactly and problem is that the "Pure inertia" and "atmospheric friction" values are way to high

 

I fire off my missile and I see it going for couple of seconds and after it's 4 km in front of me the missile looks just like it stops in dead air and I overtake it.

 

And after I overtake it, it explodes of to my sides

 

I just don't believe that missile without engine going at 4 kph can slow down to 1 kph in couple of seconds and then fall from the sky

 

All DCS missiles do that. If you look at a tacview for any given engagement you will see that both sides missiles drop like rocks after a while.

 

Also the missile has a self-destruct timer.

[sedenion]

Okay... i made some test,: exactly the same mission (40.000 ft, cold target) except one is M200C with S-530D and the other is F-15C with AIM-7M... The AIM-7M can reach the target at ~15nm launch... the S-530D from ~11nm launch...

 

i have to test at lower altitude, but i'am tired

[Croaker47]

Ouch! :wallbash: Mixed my missiles.

 

The F is 8 seconds, the D is 10 seconds: 4 boost and 6 sustain.

I think it is a proximity fuze, not sure without my notes.

 

FWIW, my own tests as shown me that at 10,000 feet or less 5nmiles or less will get you a kill, either with the first or a second shot.

 

Missile has around 40% kill ratio which is in line with other missiles like the AIM-7M.

 

Thanks again for the information, Zeus.

[Zeus67]

Thanks again for the information, Zeus.

 

Don't get me wrong. At 10,000 or less, at 9 nmiles the missile will reach the target, it is just that the flight time is so long that your target has time enough to maneuver or do something about it.

 

At 6 nmiles (or better yet at 4) the missile is so fast that they can barely have time to react.

[Croaker47]

Yeah, I'd imagine it'd be like having to react to an active Adder or something at that range, as far as danger levels go.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

It's an interesting missile... at least it looks big and impressive on the little mirage!

 

I tried a test head to head 1v1 against an F15 with typical 4x aim120 4x aim9 load out @ 40000ft

 

I did much better than I expected with about 50% win lose ratio after a dozen runs.

 

Most of the time the super530 was just a distraction to get in position for a magic kill, but i did get two kills with the second 530 fired at closer range

 

Has one ever been fired in combat?

[unknown]

The missile likes it high and fast, my first test flight at this height and i killed the AI Mig29a head on at ~18nm/33,4km. This is my longest shot so far, the second 530d was also tracking the Mig but found only debris at arrival. :)

[Beamscanner]

In DCS, it is highly susceptible to chaff "flooding" (the target starts dispensing chaff like crazy, creating a cloud of the thing) due to the built-in ECM mechanics (each chaff bundle has a specific probability of spoofing the missile and they stack on top of each other with each bundle released until you get 100% spoof probability).

 

That doesn't make sense... chaff should be completely useless if you don't maneuver(static Doppler velocity outside of the velocity notch) and don't use a jammer.

[RoflSeal]

That doesn't make sense... chaff should be completely useless if you don't maneuver(static Doppler velocity outside of the velocity notch) and don't use a jammer.

 

Chaff in DCS seem to act like flares i.e. an emitter (look at R-27ER tracking first chaff deployed even though it's not in the STT beam anymore.)

Edited December 28, 2015 by RoflSeal

[Zeus67]

It's an interesting missile... at least it looks big and impressive on the little mirage!

 

I tried a test head to head 1v1 against an F15 with typical 4x aim120 4x aim9 load out @ 40000ft

 

I did much better than I expected with about 50% win lose ratio after a dozen runs.

 

Most of the time the super530 was just a distraction to get in position for a magic kill, but i did get two kills with the second 530 fired at closer range

 

Has one ever been fired in combat?

Remember that you are at a disadvantage when facing opponents with fire and forget missiles, you have to fly in a steady path to guide the missile home. Your enemy doesn't