INS Alignment implementation

[spiddx]

I'd like to hear your opinion...

 

Do you guys think that once the INS gets implemented it would be fine for the "Memory Alignment" fuction to work on cold starts?

 

On the A-10 it's quite ok to wait for alignment because there is so much other stuff to do, but here the rest of the startup is so quick that I imagine it rather tedious to wait for another 7 minutes just looking out the window. :) Sure we'd have to pretend the plane was already aligned once, but anybody who wants pure realism could always use the normal option. Yeah it would be a small concession to gameplay, but since the option is there in the aircraft I think it's one that I could live with.

 

Any thoughts?

[Corsair]

I'm pretty sure the real Uliss 52 INU has capabity to perform alignment from a stored heading, accelerating the process.

[LuSi_6]

is the INS supported by GPS?

[Corsair]

Not on the C.

The twin Uliss 52P installed on the 2000D are GPS embedded.

[Jansgi]

You can do a fast alignment but it will drift over time and won't be as accurate.

[LuSi_6]

for how long will the INS be stable before drift becomes a problem?

[spiddx]

You can do a fast alignment but it will drift over time and won't be as accurate.

 

And how would you perform this fast alignment? Because as far as I understood the Memory alignment only takes a previously stored position and assumes that the aircraft hasn't moved since. I don't see how this would have any impact on the accuracy of the system.

[Fishbed-21]

At about 80% you can start moving. Is in the scramble procedures in the M2000C pilot manual.

[Nealius]

Theoretically speaking, in a scramble situation what systems would be negatively impacted by not aligning INS? I've always thought of it as nothing more than a navigational tool that could be done without as long as there's a working compass/TACAN/VOR. If waypoints are not needed, of course.

[PiedDroit]

Theoretically speaking, in a scramble situation what systems would be negatively impacted by not aligning INS? I've always thought of it as nothing more than a navigational tool that could be done without as long as there's a working compass/TACAN/VOR. If waypoints are not needed, of course.

ADI, and compass should be affected, I don't know how those systems behave when INS is not aligned.

[Duck21]

I'd love to have real alignment times. But there could be an option for the users to select in the DCS settings dialog to shorten the alignment time if so wanted. So you'd tick that and instead of waiting 7 minutes you'd have to wait say 2 minutes.

But it should always be possible to have real alignment times.

[jojo]

And how would you perform this fast alignment? Because as far as I understood the Memory alignment only takes a previously stored position and assumes that the aircraft hasn't moved since. I don't see how this would have any impact on the accuracy of the system.

 

Yes that's it.

 

Memory alignment takes 4mn, full alignment 8mn.

 

No embedded GPS for M-2000C.

[King_Hrothgar]

I'd love to have real alignment times. But there could be an option for the users to select in the DCS settings dialog to shorten the alignment time if so wanted. So you'd tick that and instead of waiting 7 minutes you'd have to wait say 2 minutes.

But it should always be possible to have real alignment times.

 

I think that's the best option. Placing a "fast alignment" option that knocks it down to under 2 minutes in the special or misc tabs should make everyone happy.

[wolf5]

Memory alignment should take in count when you put aircraft, in ME, start from ramp. So just 4mn to align.

[QuiGon]

I'd love to have real alignment times. But there could be an option for the users to select in the DCS settings dialog to shorten the alignment time if so wanted. So you'd tick that and instead of waiting 7 minutes you'd have to wait say 2 minutes.

But it should always be possible to have real alignment times.

 

I would only agree with that if it can be forced server side in MP, but I don't think that's possible for aircraft specific settings. So I'm against that solution. Keep it realistic pls.

[QuiGon]

ADI, and compass should be affected, I don't know how those systems behave when INS is not aligned.

 

Isn't that what the SEC mode of the INS is used for? It only provides gyroscopic information but doesn't need to align.

[King_Hrothgar]

I would only agree with that if it can be forced server side in MP, but I don't think that's possible for aircraft specific settings. So I'm against that solution. Keep it realistic pls.

 

You must really hate the idea of people using the Mirage in MP.

[wolf5]

I'm agreed with QuiGon, keep it realistic. Do you want to see people crash on you then to be in air 2mn after ?

[King_Hrothgar]

They can do it with every other plane in DCS in MP except the A-10C (which takes 4 minutes to start anyways), so might as well keep it consistent. And I fail to understand what exactly is being simulated by having the player go make a snack while the INS aligns. It's just wasting the player's time imho. And it isn't realistic either as that's what the ground crew is there for. If you want to sit there for 7-8 minutes doing nothing every time you start it up, then there is nothing stopping you. But I have little interest in sitting around all day not playing the game because some guy on the internet decided that slapping an arbitrary 8 minute timer on the startup procedure was a good idea. I want a Mirage 2000 flight sim, not a Mirage 2000 INS alignment sim.

[PiedDroit]

Isn't that what the SEC mode of the INS is used for? It only provides gyroscopic information but doesn't need to align.

Good point. This is something to test when we have INS implemented.

 

I'm agreed with QuiGon, keep it realistic. Do you want to see people crash on you then to be in air 2mn after ?

That is another topic. It's true that some server would benefit a timer for careless people who just takeoff, spam and pray then crash, but, this is not related to Mirage-2000C INS alignment simulation.

Edited January 3, 2016 by PiedDroit

[spiddx]

They can do it with every other plane in DCS in MP except the A-10C (which takes 4 minutes to start anyways), so might as well keep it consistent. And I fail to understand what exactly is being simulated by having the player go make a snack while the INS aligns. It's just wasting the player's time imho. And it isn't realistic either as that's what the ground crew is there for. If you want to sit there for 7-8 minutes doing nothing every time you start it up, then there is nothing stopping you. But I have little interest in sitting around all day not playing the game because some guy on the internet decided that slapping an arbitrary 8 minute timer on the startup procedure was a good idea. I want a Mirage 2000 flight sim, not a Mirage 2000 INS alignment sim.

 

That's exactly my thinking, and the fact that the Mem alignment function is there in the plane gives us a way around the issue that is 'realistic enough' IMO. Every player can decide for himselft if he wants to use it or not.

[Luzifer]

Again, there is precedent in the Ka-50 which has extremely reduced INS alignment time compared to the real world.

[grunf]

I'm all for realism, but in this case these 8 minutes are nothing but a big waste of time. 2 minutes for full, 1min for memory alignment would be fine. An option to chose between full and fast alignment in the Special tab would be a good compromise.

[Azrayen]

And it isn't realistic either as that's what the ground crew is there for.

Uh?

No, pilot's job.

Usually: walk to the aircraft (already GPU'ed by ground crew), climb the ladder, switch BATT TRN, ALT1&2 on, put INU on/to align. Unclimb the ladder, put on your legs straps, do you preflight walk-around, climb back and you're good to go.

[Deezle]

IMO a 4 minute memory alignment won't be too bad, that's what most of us are used to in the A-10C.