"Early Access" let's talk...

[mmaruda]

So I just noticed that in the newsletter ED used the term "Early Access"... :cry:Probably everyone here does not pay much attention to wording, we all sort of know what to expect, but somehow I feel like they better stick with "Beta". So far Steam's Early Access program has been seen a synonymous to cancer in many gaming communities.

 

I may seem like I am overreacting, but somehow I feel like by using "Early Access" in reference to the Hornet, they put themselves in the same bag with a bunch of hacks and their low-quality Unite asset-based "products".

The amount of crap [pardon my French, I cannot seem to find a more polite word] that has been poured into Steam's Early Access program just make terms like alpha, beta or constant development sound much more respectable.

 

I know that this is not always the case, but Steam policy of not curating anything they put on their store, has made many people see red flags pop all over whenever they see "Early Access". Might not be the best marketing to advertise with the tagline.

 

What do you guys think? It's obviously nothing to argue about, but I sort of felt like getting the above out of my system.

[Aginor]

As a software developer I prefer early access over calling it beta or alpha because those are clearly defined, and that causes confusion because what we get here are often not actually betas but alphas, and then people get even more confused by bullsh** like the word "pre-alpha".

[BaconSarnie]

Just call it "paid for testing"

[Sryan]

eh well it's just a choice of words. Early acces or beta acces. It's the reputation of ED that precedes them and not those of the startups on the steampage. There's plenty of material to prove what ED is capable off, and if people would watch only a single let's play about the bug they should realise what quality it is.

 

and while there may be a lot of junk, early acces has also seen a lot succes titles. KSP, ARK, RUST and also arma III wich, like ED, was made by an established company who also caters to a professional market.

[StandingCow]

I think the term "early access" clearly defines the product we are getting may be incomplete and/or have bugs. When you use terms like Alpha/Beta (which much of the game community has ruined) things get confusing.

 

Alpha technically should means what they are using the word early access to define, a product that is buggy or missing features. Beta would be feature complete but still have bugs. But, as I mentioned above the alpha/beta terms have been made confusing due to abuse by other game companies. I have seen beta used when a game is clearly not finished.

 

TL;DR: I think the term early access is a term that everyone can understand.

[cichlidfan]

They are using the term early access because it actually doesn't mean anything when it comes to the level of completion of the product. It also avoids people complaining about how long things stay in beta.

 

Purely marketing.

[NeilWillis]

Or are we just resorting to semantics, and so ED have decided to change their approach to shut everyone up, and put an end to the constant moaning?

 

Either way, if you don't like early access, then the answer is simple. Wait until it is released as the final version.

[cichlidfan]

Wait until it is released as the final version.

 

Except that hasn't happened to any aircraft, as of yet.

[NeilWillis]

Apart from the F-15C, FW-190 D-9, UH-1H, A-10C, P-51D, Su-27, Su-25, Su-25T, A-10A and Black Shark. None of which remain in Beta.

 

That isn't to say they aren't still getting improvements along the way..

[NineLine]

Except that hasn't happened to any aircraft, as of yet.

 

There is always a feature complete point, and that would be when early access is finished, but modules generally never stop getting some form of love as new things come about, or new information. Thats a good thing though.

[cichlidfan]

Apart from the F-15C, FW-190 D-9, UH-1H, A-10C, P-51D, Su-27, Su-25, Su-25T, A-10A and Black Shark. None of which remain in Beta.

 

Many of those are still not feature complete. For example...

 

The A-10A still does not have differential brakes or a PFM.

 

The UH-1H still has an incomplete manual (whole chapter/section is still missing) and is missing full multiseat capability.

[NineLine]

The A-10A still does not have differential brakes or a PFM.

 

Where were those promised features when the A-10A was released? I dont think either of those were requirements for final release version when FC3 came out... all this bonus stuff we are getting with FC3 aircraft... we really cant complain about.

 

The Huey isnt ED. This is ED terminology, I am sure ED will suggest 3rd Parties follow suit, but they still do what they do.

[kontiuka]

To me, feature complete is whatever was promised by the developer at the start of a project. Therein lies the problem though as sometimes this is ambiguous and is often qualified with "if time permits", "if resources permit", "if we can get access to the information", etc. So it ends up being very open ended.

[SkateZilla]

Many of those are still not feature complete. For example...

 

The A-10A still does not have differential brakes or a PFM.

 

The UH-1H still has an incomplete manual (whole chapter/section is still missing) and is missing full multiseat capability.

 

 

the A10A is also Not a DCS: Aircraft w/ a PFM.

Its an FC3 Aircraft with an AFM+

 

What part of Multi Seat is missing from the Huey?

Edited February 4, 2016 by SkateZilla

[mwd2]

[..]

 

What part of Multi Seat is missing from the Huey?

 

• Multiplayer coop mode for crew members of the same helicopter under development for a later update.

 

Source: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104929

[cichlidfan]

 

What part of Multi Seat is missing from the Huey?

 

• Multiplayer coop mode for crew members of the same helicopter under development for a later update.

 

Source: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104929

 

:music_whistling:

[cichlidfan]

the A10A is also Not a DCS: Aircraft w/ a PFM.

Its an FC3 Aircraft with an AFM+

 

I am waiting for the explanation of why it isn't getting the same feature set that is planned for the other FC3 aircraft. Especially since the PFM already exists for the A-10C and there is no difference between the two where flight characteristics are concerned.

[NineLine]

I am waiting for the explanation of why it isn't getting the same feature set that is planned for the other FC3 aircraft. Especially since the PFM already exists for the A-10C and there is no difference between the two where flight characteristics are concerned.

 

Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[SkateZilla]

• Multiplayer coop mode for crew members of the same helicopter under development for a later update.

 

Source: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104929

 

The Huey was released well before this feature was even part of DCS World.

 

Give them a lil Bit of leeway.

 

It was also stated to be integrated at a later date, and not part of the initial release feature set.

 

Which is still nothing to do with the topic.

Edited February 4, 2016 by SkateZilla

[Shez]

As long as ED is releasing the early access at a reduced price (i.e. 40-50% off) for doing their testing I don't see the issue.

[NineLine]

As long as ED is releasing the early access at a reduced price (i.e. 40-50% off) for doing their testing I don't see the issue.

 

Umm, yeah... probably not happening, but you can wait for release.

[kontiuka]

As long as ED is releasing the early access at a reduced price (i.e. 40-50% off) for doing their testing I don't see the issue.

40-50% sounds excessive. 20% maybe. I'm even fine with 0% since I'm getting something out of it too - early access.

[NineLine]

40-50% sounds excessive. 20% maybe. I'm even fine with 0% since I'm getting something out of it too - early access.

 

I would imagine the standard discount would continue as that wasnt specified as changing.

[NeilWillis]

You're very optimistic with that 40-50% discounting!

 

Every early/beta/alpha release has been discounted. The other HUGE advantage is that you can get your hands on them as soon as they are available.

 

We could argue all day whether modules are complete or not. I based my list on whether they were full releases or still shown as Beta. It is true that all of them are incomplete for various reasons, starting with the classified nature of some features in the A-10C to recently implemented features that have yet to be added to pre-existing releases.

 

Whatever your views on how complete or incomplete modules may be, they're still the best available anywhere in the world. I hope we're never satisfied, and I hope that ED and the rest of the developers continue to add more and more features. However, there has to be a time when sufficient has been done to a module to consider it a full release.

 

I guess what each of us considers a complete module all comes down to how fussy we are, or how pedantic if you want to be harsh.

 

As long as progress continues to be made, and developers don't delay things excessively, what exactly do we have to complain about?

[VTJS17_Fire]

I don't care about, how ED call it (open alpha, early access, open beta) ... the Hornet will be another day 1 purchase for me.

 

ED himself proved to release good beta versions of their products with a reasonable timeframe for the final release of each product (depends on the "size" of each product).

 

The Huey for example is made by Belsimtek, not ED. But I understand the anger with such a long development time, like with the Hawk.

 

 

kind regards,

Fire