Help! How to take-off INTO a hover??

[Bearfoot]

So, I'm loving learning to fly this bird!

 

There are lots of tutorials on how to come into a hover. While I am so far from have got this down, I think I am on my way. While there might be a lot of bouncing and spinning around the sky, eventually I usually can stabilize into a hover, at least, out of ground effect. Still a long way to go, but I'm making progress.

 

What I cannot come close to doing is to take off into a hover. I do not know even how to start doing this! Following the tutorial, I pull left and aft somewhat and trim there, and then kick in some left rudder, before pulling slowly up on the collective. The moment the skids leave the ground though, I am sliding left and right and forward and aft. I am all over the place. Finally I just push forward and fly off, because otherwise I will end up slipping and sliding all over the place.

 

What can I do to learn this? Any suggestions/advice? Can someone post a video with the control position showing maybe (RtCtrl-Enter)?

[KLR Rico]

Practice. :)

 

Get good at hovering in ground effect, and then basically memorize the attitude the helicopter assumes. Later, you will get used to pulling the helicopter into that position as it comes off the skids.

 

Edit: added quick video

 

jSitvEw4VwQ

Edited March 7, 2016 by NineLine

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Just raise the collective very slowly. As it gets light on the skids you'll see which way it wants to go.

 

Also, practice. It isn't easy and takes time to get good at it.

[Aginor]

Yep, in the book "Chickenhawk" Robert Mason describes exactly that behaviour from his training, it is common to all helicopters (at least those without fly by wire).

First you are all over the place (pick a big field to practice that), and then with some more practice it gets smaller and smaller until you can hover over a small spot.

Try reducing your area at low altitudes first, it is harder to do when you are higher.

[ESAc_matador]

Practice, as mentioned before. Take into account, that you are 100% of the time controlling the UH, you can't trim and forget about it.... all ways doing really small corrections. No more than 0.5 cm of movement. Every control adjustment of any of the controls, , stick, rudder or collective.... neeeds a counter adjustment in the other two.

 

Also, very important, look deep, take your references far from the helicopter, a building, forest or mountain far away this will you make less overcorrections. It is easy if you practice. Altitude should be no mor than 4 or 5 ft to work with ground effect.

[Aginor]

Oh and one more hint: Keep in mind that the helicopter will not react instantly to corrections. You have to counter some moves before they happen (anticipate them).

[Bearfoot]

Practice. :)

 

Get good at hovering in ground effect, and then basically memorize the attitude the helicopter assumes. Later, you will get used to pulling the helicopter into that position as it comes off the skids.

 

Edit: added quick video

 

 

Thanks ... but video not showing!

[Bearfoot]

Thanks all.

 

I am trying to practice. But because I do not know what I am doing wrong or right or even how to begin assessing what I am doing wrong or right, I feel like I am no learning/gaining/understanding anything with each practice. And so what I am trying to figure out is a sort of heuristics for this, hopefully with a video.

 

For e.g., while I cannot come to a hover from level flight easily, I know and understand the method enough to improve each time: (1) pull back on cyclic to slow down, lower collective to cancel out climb, (2) as your airspeed drops to 0, your climb rate will also start drop dramatically into the negative: give back some collective then to stabilize altitude and then level out. Balance spin/yaw with rudder. Even if my execution is horrendous, the responses of the helicopter make sense and thus I know where I am going wrong.

 

But the hovering take-off is a total mystery!

[KLR Rico]

Thanks ... but video not showing!

 

I don't know what's going on there, try the link right above the embedded video.

[Bearfoot]

I don't know what's going on there, try the link right above the embedded video.

 

Got it. It looks so easy and elegant in the video! Well, I will study it. I can tell right off that I have the initial cyclic position to far left/aft relative to yours: mine is about 1/8 down and across. Thanks!

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

yeah... at first the UH-1 seems to want to kill you. Especially if you are acustomed to the nice and stable Mi-8. But the UH-1 requires constant small corrections with the stick. Use of the force-trim [insert Star wars picture here] is recommended. I also have about 25% curvature on the pitch and bank axis.

[Cibit]

Bearfoot, hi I did a quick video this morning but was sniped so never uploaded it. If you want some help and advice online pop along here http://1stcavdiv.conceptbb.com/ and say hi.

Lots of good huey pilots around to help you with the basics and beyond and are a great bunch of lads:)

 

The 229th is dedicated to the Huey and growing daily, and The Asia/Pacific region is recruiting members.

If you love the Huey and want some insight into real world tactics and maneuvering, or you just want to fly with like-minded people in huey dedicated missions, drop into the recruiting section and introduce yourself. How and when you fly is up to you.

We now have a few real-life helicopter pilots in our ranks. Flyer49 is the Pilot Instructor and hes doing a great job with check flights and flight training. He is also working on getting up to speed other R/L pilots to take up instructor positions.

 

Quote from Flyer49

 

 

As stated by sSkullZnBoneZz

"There are no requirements other than a mutual love for the Huey, and there is no minimum time to be online--you can come and go as you please"

 

There are three companies: Europe, North America, and Asia/Pacific, and all have positions available.

Drop by and have a look http://1stcavdiv.conceptbb.com/

 

LiveBait

[Charly_Owl]

Cibit is right in that regard: the folks in the 229th taught me how to fly the Huey from rock bottom and most of what I know comes from their patient teachings.

[Bearfoot]

Bearfoot, hi I did a quick video this morning but was sniped so never uploaded it. If you want some help and advice online pop along here http://1stcavdiv.conceptbb.com/ and say hi.

Lots of good huey pilots around to help you with the basics and beyond and are a great bunch of lads:)

 

Wow! That site/community looks great. Will definitely sign up later this week. Thanks!

[CHPL]

different approach

 

Everything mentioned bevor is totally right.

Especially the Video from KLR Rico is very impressive (hours of training necessary)

Anyway

Yesterday I sworn by myself, I never ever say something like this in that Forum:

“But “ :doh:

First things First!

Shure you can pull the collective and try to learn everything at the same Time.

Easier and more effective it will be if you make one step after the other.

Shure you already been flying around, and even if you never have flown a helicopter bevor, with enough speed and air between the HUY and the Ground you prevent that Bird from crashing. :pilotfly:

There is on lesson you can take out of it, and apply for “learning to take off into hover”.

“Movement is not necessarily bad”. ;)

There is another “simple Truth” important to internalize.

In Truth a Helicopter “is a stabile system” but it’s very easy to destabilized, especially by the Pilot. :joystick:

As you can clearly see in KLR Rico’s Video, reducing control inputs is the key!

"If you are using the controls, it may be too much."

So let’s bring all suggestion’s together and implement this in “learning to takeoff into hover, in a reasonable time.

- take your references far from the helicopter ( 5-6 m)

- raise collective slowly, anthill the HUY gets light on the Skids ( don't take off)

- prevent yawing with the pedals, find the point She ceps direction and point you attention to the next steps.

- add a tiny little bit more collective and when she starts to moth “let her moving forward” as slow as possible.

She will leave the ground as much as 1 – 3 feet but that’s enough. :smilewink:

- Add aft cyclic (correction ! only think about it) to stop forward movement.

First you may lower collective, bevor it comes to a full stop in a hover and touch down sliding a little bit. But if you get more confident you soon will reach your 1. Goal “Hover”

If you do well (slow and gently enough) , there will be no need for any additional inputs on Pedals or collective, so you may be focused only on cyclic when trying to prevent the HUY from moving .

With more and more practice, you may start takeoff vertical, an even more “faster” but everything you have to do “fast” may be the outcome of something wrong. :cry:

 

I add a track file, so maybe you get a better understanding off, what is different in my approach to the task. And even if it moves, cep calm, :music_whistling: don’t overreact, there are enough space on a runway.

Always Happy landings :thumbup:

Hover practice.trk

[Bearfoot]

Everything mentioned bevor is totally right.

Especially the Video from KLR Rico is very impressive (hours of training necessary)

Anyway

Yesterday I sworn by myself, I never ever say something like this in that Forum:

“But “ :doh:

First things First!

Shure you can pull the collective and try to learn everything at the same Time.

Easier and more effective it will be if you make one step after the other.

Shure you already been flying around, and even if you never have flown a helicopter bevor, with enough speed and air between the HUY and the Ground you prevent that Bird from crashing. :pilotfly:

There is on lesson you can take out of it, and apply for “learning to take off into hover”.

“Movement is not necessarily bad”. ;)

There is another “simple Truth” important to internalize.

In Truth a Helicopter “is a stabile system” but it’s very easy to destabilized, especially by the Pilot. :joystick:

As you can clearly see in KLR Rico’s Video, reducing control inputs is the key!

"If you are using the controls, it may be too much."

So let’s bring all suggestion’s together and implement this in “learning to takeoff into hover, in a reasonable time.

- take your references far from the helicopter ( 5-6 m)

- raise collective slowly, anthill the HUY gets light on the Skids ( don't take off)

- prevent yawing with the pedals, find the point She ceps direction and point you attention to the next steps.

- add a tiny little bit more collective and when she starts to moth “let her moving forward” as slow as possible.

She will leave the ground as much as 1 – 3 feet but that’s enough. :smilewink:

- Add aft cyclic (correction ! only think about it) to stop forward movement.

First you may lower collective, bevor it comes to a full stop in a hover and touch down sliding a little bit. But if you get more confident you soon will reach your 1. Goal “Hover”

If you do well (slow and gently enough) , there will be no need for any additional inputs on Pedals or collective, so you may be focused only on cyclic when trying to prevent the HUY from moving .

With more and more practice, you may start takeoff vertical, an even more “faster” but everything you have to do “fast” may be the outcome of something wrong. :cry:

 

I add a track file, so maybe you get a better understanding off, what is different in my approach to the task. And even if it moves, cep calm, :music_whistling: don’t overreact, there are enough space on a runway.

Always Happy landings :thumbup:

 

Thank you so much for this. Will study and apply it when I next fly: stabilize yaw when light on the skids, then lift off and stabilize forward/back.

 

I know what you mean about translational lift helping you out --- first time I got the helicopter flying out straight and level (after a chaotic wobbly porpoising take-off), I thought: hey, flying a helicopter is not so bad. I have learned a lot since then about helicopters.

[Buznee]

Sometime I'll set up a multiplayer server and we can do heli training session. It would make it much easier when we can do multicrew. You need to put in deliberate small inputs very quickly, anticipation is key.

[Eflemmen]

another tip is reducing the fuel to 20-30%

makes it behave better

[Bearfoot]

Sometime I'll set up a multiplayer server and we can do heli training session. It would make it much easier when we can do multicrew. You need to put in deliberate small inputs very quickly, anticipation is key.

 

That sounds great!

[Bearfoot]

So, unfortunately, work last week left little time for flying.

 

But I did get some practice time in, trying to apply some of the tips here.

 

Still not there yet, but I actually feel like I am making progress.

 

Here are things that have helped me the most with additional observation so far:

 

(1) Wait till it gets light on the skids, kick in some left pedal to stop the rotation, and then continue to increase collective. Only catch with this is that increasing the collective seems to result in more yaw, so the previous rudder position to control the yaw is insufficient. Need to anticipate this.

(2) Small inputs. Small inputs. Small inputs.

(3) this one was very important: stop/reverse the input *before* you reach the attitude you want. When exactly is an art that I have not figured out yet. But if I stop/reverse when I reach when the helicopter is where/how I want it, then I've gone too far and have overcorrected

(4) related to this, need to add input *before* the correction is needed. This one is crazy, because it requires you to look into the future. I think being able to see into the future is required for flying helicopters. Needless to say, I have not got this one down yet.

(5) Combining (2) and (3) above means that there is a lot of "pumping" of controls: lots of tiny pushing cyclic back and forth, rudder left and right etc.

(6) I think I usually get the yaw and pitch (= fwd/backward) movement under the control for a few moments, but then it starts slipping/sliding laterally, and that's usually what throws me off. For some reason, cyclic left/right creates a lot of additional movements in addition to correcting the slide.

 

Anyway, thank you all for advice/suggestions so far. Appreciate the support. Will continue to work on this and will definitely need to look into a virtual squadron as soon as work lets me!

[yipster]

May I ask what joystick and rudder combo you are using?

 

Technique is very important, but feedback and feel on the control is as important on the Huey.

 

You need to set up your controls where you get a very very smooth motion in the first 50-60% section of your moving area, try playing around with control axis curves. Spikes or non-linear stick/rudder movement will ruin the experience. If you are using a high end controller, then there is no need to do this.

 

 

Like driving a car on your learners, most of us tend to intensely focus on the top of our steering wheel and right at the nose of the car. Did you remember grabbing that steering wheel so hard that you make a sweat mark on it? I did the same when learning the Huey, grabbing on to the stick so hard and stare at the ground.

 

Ease off, relax and look far into the horizon or a building/structure you can use as a reference straight ahead.

If you find that you are getting tired in concentrating too hard (getting worse at staying on one spot), land and take a minute or so of rest and stretch then try again. You'll see a much different result.

Edited March 14, 2016 by yipster

[doveman]

One complication with simming is you don't have an engineer to make sure your equipment is working correctly.

 

So we both might use a FFB2 stick but I have no idea if mine is producing the same output as yours or if there's a fault that's making it harder to fly than it should be.

 

I guess the only way to be sure would be if someone who uses the same stick and knows what it should be like to fly using it to came to my house and tested it.

 

I know I'm probably just making excuses for my poor flying though :)

[Bearfoot]

May I ask what joystick and rudder combo you are using?

 

Technique is very important, but feedback and feel on the control is as important on the Huey.

 

You need to set up your controls where you get a very very smooth motion in the first 50-60% section of your moving area, try playing around with control axis curves. Spikes or non-linear stick/rudder movement will ruin the experience. If you are using a high end controller, then there is no need to do this.

 

 

Like driving a car on your learners, most of us tend to intensely focus on the top of our steering wheel and right at the nose of the car. Did you remember grabbing that steering wheel so hard that you make a sweat mark on it? I did the same when learning the Huey, grabbing on to the stick so hard and stare at the ground.

 

Ease off, relax and look far into the horizon or a building/structure you can use as a reference straight ahead.

If you find that you are getting tired in concentrating too hard (getting worse at staying on one spot), land and take a minute or so of rest and stretch then try again. You'll see a much different result.

 

Hi yipster,

 

I have a Saitek X-55 for the stick and throttle, and Saitek Pro for the pedals. So not (super) high end. I have no curves. Initially, when I first got it, I flew the P-51D. Here I found it too sensitive, and had to dial in 15-25 in curves. I tried that with the UH-1H, but found that I had to use too large movements for small corrections, and it didn't feel right. I then tried the opposite, -15 to -20, and actually initially felt I was getting better results. But then I backed off and went to 0 curve or straight response. I cannot remember why. This experimentation was a long time ago, before I seriously took on the task of tackling the Huey, and maybe I should revisit it and see if what (little) I might have learned makes a difference.

[yipster]

Hi yipster,

 

I have a Saitek X-55 for the stick and throttle, and Saitek Pro for the pedals. So not (super) high end. I have no curves. Initially, when I first got it, I flew the P-51D. Here I found it too sensitive, and had to dial in 15-25 in curves. I tried that with the UH-1H, but found that I had to use too large movements for small corrections, and it didn't feel right. I then tried the opposite, -15 to -20, and actually initially felt I was getting better results. But then I backed off and went to 0 curve or straight response. I cannot remember why. This experimentation was a long time ago, before I seriously took on the task of tackling the Huey, and maybe I should revisit it and see if what (little) I might have learned makes a difference.

 

Bearfoot,

 

Do a 3-5minutes flight and save the mission track, post it up here and we may be able to see what you've done exactly.

 

While I've never used the products you own, I cannot comment on how to do the adjustment to make it right. It all comes to trial and error in finding the sweet spot that works for you. My old pedal had a bit of a spike noise (Logitech G940) in the input so it made flying the Huey very difficult. Not sure if you might have similar issues with the Saitek rudder.

[BSS_Sniper]

Other than just practicing, don't hamfist it. People tend to over control. I never found it that difficult so I may not be much help.