Vive / Oculus - fit for purpose?

[kraszus]

I'm considering a few upgrades to enhance my DCS experience.

 

I'm considering a VR kit and have done a little research, and am no further forward. I'm left wondering about the viability of a VR headset but am confused as to a couple of things...

 

1) Are the dials / hud fonts legible or not with a VR kit? I've read a few posts on the elite dangerous forums that suggest instruments are not readily legible. I don't see the point in a VR headset in DCS if you can't read the instruments or pick up ground vehicles in the TGP.

 

2) Is it 6dof...ie. Can I lean in toward the HUD - all the youtube videos I've seen show the pilots view as if he / she is sat almost behind the pilot's seat.

 

Just wondering if my cash might be better spent buying another 2 monitors instead.

[hansangb]

It is 6DOF so no worries there. But sit tight another week or so as folks are starting to get their CV1's this week. And Vive is shipping the pre-order shortly as well. I ordered both and will type up a detailed report. I've been a DK1 and DK2 user for a while now and I will not fly w/o it.

[smirkza]

I'm considering a few upgrades to enhance my DCS experience.

 

I'm considering a VR kit and have done a little research, and am no further forward. I'm left wondering about the viability of a VR headset but am confused as to a couple of things...

 

1) Are the dials / hud fonts legible or not with a VR kit? I've read a few posts on the elite dangerous forums that suggest instruments are not readily legible. I don't see the point in a VR headset in DCS if you can't read the instruments or pick up ground vehicles in the TGP.

 

2) Is it 6dof...ie. Can I lean in toward the HUD - all the youtube videos I've seen show the pilots view as if he / she is sat almost behind the pilot's seat.

 

Just wondering if my cash might be better spent buying another 2 monitors instead.

 

Brew a pot of tea and spend an evening or three catching up on these threads -

 

Rift in DCS

Vive in DCS

 

They are up to date with how the products work in game, but you might want to skip a few hundred pages towards the front to get to the useful stuff for the current game at the end of each thread...

 

I run with a DK2 and reading the gauges can be hard. Knowing the plane reasonably well helps as you can guess what the gauge is probably showing. The release stage HMD are supposed to be much, much better.

 

Note that FPS and smoothness can cause some people real problems. I'm lucky, in that I can run with 20 FPS with peaks and dips without feeling ill effects. It's just a matter of defocusing whenever you want to move your head then refocusing when the movement has finished.

 

Be careful though - VR ruins games that don't support it. I can't play without it now (as most people have said really) as playing on a standard monitor feels a poor substitute...

[AstroEma]

Kraszus,

 

 

I have been playing DCS with the Vive for a couple of weeks and the gauges are not readable: that means the numbers in the gauges, not the needle positions.

Also, the label are not readable as well. If you get closer to the panel, then yes they do become readable.

Also, spotting targets on the ground will be very hard since there's no way of zooming in, and the resolution of the ground is affected by how close our eyes are to the lenses/screen which only have a limited res (1800x1200 per eye).

 

The sense of immersion you have though is unreal.

[schurem]

So it simulates you being a myopic fighter pilot lol.

[Mud]

Kraszus,

 

 

Also, spotting targets on the ground will be very hard since there's no way of zooming in, and the resolution of the ground is affected by how close our eyes are to the lenses/screen which only have a limited res (1800x1200 per eye).

 

 

So AstroEma, that means the function "Zoom in Slow" for instance in DCS does not work with VR?

[S3NTRY11]

So AstroEma, that means the function "Zoom in Slow" for instance in DCS does not work with VR?

As far as I'm aware zoom still does not work, nor the kneeboard, which (most frustratingly) would be so handy in VR when you can't reference outside the pit for info you need.

[AstroEma]

Correct. Zooming in does not work.

I can see the messages coming in in the top left corner of the FOV, but they are too far left and too far up to be readable as well.

But these are just small issue that are easily addressed with time.

[Headwarp]

Correct. Zooming in does not work.

 

 

Don't own a VR headset... but is it possible that you have zoom bound to multiple axes? In like 8/10 of my DCS modules I have to unbind TrackIR_Z from the zoom axis function, so that the slider on my warthog throttle will work. I then rebind TrackIR_Z to the empty head movment function for forward/back.. which is not the same as the zoom axis.

 

 

If both axes are bound (Throttle slider and TrackIR to the same function)....that function doesn't work at all.

 

Try ensuring there is only one zoom axis and give us an update.

[Ratcatcher]

Thats odd, I have TIR and a Hog HOTAS, I can zoom in using TIR ( but don't use it that much TBH ) I prefer to use keys on my joystick which are mapped to Zoom in Slow/ Zoom Out Slow.

 

Works without any issues for me.

[PiedDroit]

Don't own a VR headset... but is it possible that you have zoom bound to multiple axes? In like 8/10 of my DCS modules I have to unbind TrackIR_Z from the zoom axis function, so that the slider on my warthog throttle will work. I then rebind TrackIR_Z to the empty head movment function for forward/back.. which is not the same as the zoom axis.

 

 

If both axes are bound (Throttle slider and TrackIR to the same function)....that function doesn't work at all.

 

Try ensuring there is only one zoom axis and give us an update.

 

OR implementation in DCS can't zoom, it's a fact, there is no bug please don't derail thread ;)

[BigBANGtheory]

OR can't zoom, or you can't lean towards the instrument to zoom?

[smirkza]

OR can't zoom, or you can't lean towards the instrument to zoom?

 

The only way of seeing something bigger is to lean in. There is no 'zoom' key.

 

So, the way to think of this is that you have your mark one eye balls stuck in your mark one head, which you can lean anywhere your physical body will allow you to. Just like you would lean in to read small print in real life.

 

But, you don't have any virtual binoculars to put to your eyes (the zoom).

 

As said, it's not a missing keybind, it's a feature that simply isn't available to VR users.

 

Hope this helps?

[NakedSquirrel]

I'm curious how the Vive/Rift run when they are below the 90FPS target.

 

DCS runs at great FPS on my system with 1.5/2.0, but it can certainly drop below 90 FPS on busy multiplayer servers, in complex missions with lots of AI, and in parts of downtown Vegas.

 

I've read the Rift uses asynchronous time warp, which is supposed to reduce any sea-sick (VR sick?) effect, but I haven't read much on the Vive's approach, and whether VR headsets are enjoyable at lower FPS.

[Frusheen]

I'm curious how the Vive/Rift run when they are below the 90FPS target.

 

DCS runs at great FPS on my system with 1.5/2.0, but it can certainly drop below 90 FPS on busy multiplayer servers, in complex missions with lots of AI, and in parts of downtown Vegas.

 

I've read the Rift uses asynchronous time warp, which is supposed to reduce any sea-sick (VR sick?) effect, but I haven't read much on the Vive's approach, and whether VR headsets are enjoyable at lower FPS.

 

That was my main reason for choosing rift over Vive for DCS. I think asynchronous timewarp will be needed to maintain v-sync at 90Hz. Valve are working on their own solutions for judder but at the time the rift pre-order went live they hadn't been announced.

 

Judder in the DK2 was horrible for me in DCS with the old runtime. For example when on a monitor I needed to use settings which maintained over 200fps on my rig to have a smooth experience (using the same settings in dk2 @75hz). I don't think locking 90hz would have been possible. Once we went to 1.5.3 the frame rates dropped to 140-150 on a monitor and dk2 was a juddering mess.

 

I'm looking forward to see how the 1.3 runtime implementation improves things.

[BigDuke6ixx]

That was my main reason for choosing rift over Vive for DCS. I think asynchronous timewarp will be needed to maintain v-sync at 90Hz. Valve are working on their own solutions for judder but at the time the rift pre-order went live they hadn't been announced.

 

Judder in the DK2 was horrible for me in DCS with the old runtime. For example when on a monitor I needed to use settings which maintained over 200fps on my rig to have a smooth experience (using the same settings in dk2 @75hz). I don't think locking 90hz would have been possible. Once we went to 1.5.3 the frame rates dropped to 140-150 on a monitor and dk2 was a juddering mess.

 

I'm looking forward to see how the 1.3 runtime implementation improves things.

 

Judging by ProjectCars pre and post 1.3 it should be as smooth as glass.

[Headwarp]

OR implementation in DCS can't zoom, it's a fact, there is no bug please don't derail thread ;)

 

How am I derailing a thread by asking question about VR in a thread asking about VR?

 

Specifically about the zoom function which was brought up by another poster..not me.

Maybe it would've better question to ask -

 

Are the headtracking axes for vive/rift listed in the axis menus like TrackIR would be (within the game menus)6?

 

Like..I can go into the menus and see TrackIR_Z, TrackIR_X, TrackIR_Y etc.

 

IF yes, is there an axis bound to "zoom axis" in the axis controls listed under "vive/rift"? (right next to joystick/keyboard)

 

If so, has anybody TRIED changing it like I do my TrackIR axis so that my zoom keybinds work? lol.

 

I'm pretty sure I didn't use the word bug.

 

The answer to my questions requires someone who owns a headset to look at the "axis" portion of their controls menu and simply requires a yes/no to clear me up.

 

edit* i've added screenshots of controls at default, controls where zoom won't work other than leaning forward/backward with trackir, and controls where leaning forward still controls head movement, but I also am able to use keybinds or physical zoom axis to control zoom using trackir.

 

It's really asking if headtracking works the same or not by allowing you to assign axes like you would any other joystick, and like you already can the trackir axes.

 

 

http://imgur.com/a/IkziL

*edited to clarify that I'm simply talking about binding axes you would keys in the controls menu within the game*

Edited April 6, 2016 by Headwarp

[Frusheen]

How am I derailing a thread by asking question about VR in a thread asking about VR?

 

Specifically about the zoom function which was brought up by another poster..not me.

Maybe it would've better question to ask -

 

Are the headtracking axes for vive/rift listed in the axis menus like TrackIR would be?

 

Like..I can go into the menus and see TrackIR_Z, TrackIR_X, TrackIR_Y etc.

 

IF yes, is there an axis bound to "zoom axis" in the axis controls listed under "vive/rift"?

 

If so, has anybody TRIED changing it like I do my TrackIR axis so that my zoom keybinds work? lol.

 

I'm pretty sure I didn't use the word bug.

 

The answer to my questions requires someone who owns a headset to look at the "axis" portion of their controls menu and simply requires a yes/no to clear me up.

 

It hasn't been clearly put to me - does the control menu change when you check the oculus rift box in DCS World?

 

Head tracking in VR is 1:1. There is no option to change the turn rates, zoom, etc. VR head tracking is not like trackir. It has to maintain 1:1 ratio with your head or it will make you very sick very quickly. Don't think of it like trackir. It is much much better. It is the same as real life - instant and exactly 1:1 with your own head movement.

[Headwarp]

Head tracking in VR is 1:1. There is no option to change the turn rates, zoom, etc. VR head tracking is not like trackir. It has to maintain 1:1 ratio with your head or it will make you very sick very quickly. Don't think of it like trackir. It is much much better. It is the same as real life - instant and exactly 1:1 with your own head movement.

 

I'm not talking about adjusting turn rates/curves like you would in TrackIR software. (or adjusting curves at all.)

 

 

I'm talking purely about the the axis controls menu within DCS world guys...

Edited April 6, 2016 by Headwarp

[Frusheen]

I'm not talking about adjusting turn rates/curves like you would in TrackIR software.

 

 

I'm talking purely about the the axis controls menu within DCS world guys...

 

Then the answer is no.

[Headwarp]

Then the answer is no.

 

Alright. The Axes for vive/rift are unassignable in the DCS world controls menu.

 

Got you. Thank you for looking at you controls menu and verifying that.