New File Integrity Check

[GGTharos]

That's only because it was easy to take out of context in the conversation as it was. The 'we' was not the royal we. Someone essentially seemed to want to dictate what belongs in MP and what doesn't, but what they really meant was 'this shouldn't belong on the servers I fly on regardless of whether I have a say or not in the administration of those servers'.

 

Also I was concerned about this:

 

 

 

But hopefully, none of this matters anymore and we can move on.

[msalama]

want to dictate what belongs in MP

 

Can't speak on behalf of the others, but what I _do_ want to dictate is what the folks flying on my personal server are allowed to do - or, indeed, run, at least as far as external nav/sensor/combat aids/programs go. Meaning I set the rules, not you ;)

 

EDIT: right-o, reading your comment again it actually seems that we agree on this. Dayuumn, should read more carefully ;)

Edited April 29, 2016 by msalama

[*Rage*]

That's only because it was easy to take out of context in the conversation as it was. The 'we' was not the royal we. Someone essentially seemed to want to dictate what belongs in MP and what doesn't, but what they really meant was 'this shouldn't belong on the servers I fly on regardless of whether I have a say or not in the administration of those servers'.

 

Lol GG just admit you were wrong. It wont hurt as much as you think:)

[Solty]

Will this affect freetrack usage? I mean we need to add Headtracker.dll to make it work. Will this be complicated?

[Darkwolf]

Sure. Current policy is that server has the same freedom as the single-player mode.

The present allow_object_export option does affect only clients. allow_ownship_export will work the same way.

Can't you just cut short all data that are relative to radar ? I'm wondering if ED staff knows a bit about their customer base. Homecockpit builder will badly get hit because of that, and if i can't play MP anymore, I will just get my money somewhere else.

 

 

 

Let's just hope the IC system will block one of the most laughable cheat you can do in DCS, just editing the impostor.lua with notepad to get bigger blobs.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Darkwolf

[T_A]

However please stop claiming it's a hack. Leavu is based on ownship data given by APIs documented by ED. There is no more hacking involved then developing new flyable aircraft like the mig21. Leavu has no gods eye data source of the battlefield - it runs entirely on data from own aircraft instrument and sensors shared across a flight data link.

 

about red part :

 

sure ED allows you to export ownship data , but it was never intended to be shared with others like this, that is the real issue.

[RvEYoda]

about red part :

 

sure ED allows you to export ownship data , but it was never intended to be shared with others like this, that is the real issue.

 

Imo the only relevant part really is what a server admin considers legal for their game or not. Leavu was developed with the ground that server admins could allow vs disallow it - depending on what kind of game/atmosphere they prefer.

 

It turned out that the game's IC was not capable of that - so the developers will very shortly add a new setting to remedy that. That's really what this thread should be discussing.

[*Rage*]

Leavu was developed with the ground that server admins could allow vs disallow it....

 

Oh please. You knew full well it bypassed IC. You were flying on public servers with it and posting videos online! A minor detail like the fact that it was not IC'd and could not be controlled by server admins would not have passed by an expert coder like yourself. You even caught the guy who does the integrity check (Coff) off guard.

 

And I remind you of this, posted almost 2 weeks ago:

 

LEAVU won't show up in IC. Ever.

 

Whatever we want to belong in MP ... will belong in MP

 

So was it designed to bypass IC or did GG speak out of turn?

[RvEYoda]

Oh please. You knew full well it bypassed IC. You were flying on public servers with it and posting videos online! A minor detail like the fact that it was not IC'd and could not be controlled by server admins would not have passed by an expert coder like yourself. You even caught the guy who does the integrity check (Coff) off guard.

 

And I remind you of this, posted almost 2 weeks ago:

 

Actually I had no idea it bypassed IC when I started developing it. I thought server admins were free to allow and disallow whatever scripts and files they wanted configured through IC. But apparently we now have learned that unpatched IC does not check the Saved Games/DCS folder.

 

Not sure what you mean about catching Coff off guard. Coff has been very friendly in helping out the community with both setting up server configuration and helping out modders. I was recently invited to an ED lua developer mailing list where we can discuss bugs, features, etc of the lua export.

 

I find the aggression totally unnecessary. I have no quarrel with you or your squad so I don't know why all of this hostility has to be written here.

 

 

So was it designed to bypass IC or did GG speak out of turn?

 

GG did not build leavu - I don't know why his comment made you think Leavu was "designed" to bypass IC. He did however help out with finding out what the correct rwr unit names are, which I thank him for.

 

GG is simply stating limitations of unpatched IC as far as I'm concerned. Again, you'll need to ask him.

Edited May 1, 2016 by =RvE=Yoda

[*Rage*]

The frustration is that this has (?had) the potential to ruin to multiplayer on public servers and events where LEAVU is unwelcome. Assuming ED patch it it will only ruin it for home pit builders on those servers.

 

And to think weve been through all this once before 8 years ago. So it cant have been a surprise to you.

[RvEYoda]

The frustration is that this has (?had) the potential to ruin to multiplayer on public servers and events where LEAVU is unwelcome. Assuming ED patch it it will only ruin it for home pit builders on those servers.

 

And to think weve been through all this once before 8 years ago. So it cant have been a surprise to you.

 

I hear you. I'm listening to you. But not necessarily agreeing with your opinion. From my perspective we're opening up the sim to a wider and more deep range of gameplay options. Now that ED is improving the server admins' options - it should not stop either group from having fun. I believe every server admin should have the right to restrict the options for their server, and staying within the rules of the server any player should be allowed to play the game to his/her maximum enjoyment. Example: RvE dedi will allow export.lua based cockpit mods (incl leavu), while other servers might not, depending on their preference.

 

I don't recall actually what happened 5+ years ago (I stopped playing lofc/dcs for personal and professional reasons), but I've seen some people kept using leavu2 (still top thread in fc2 mod forum) up until the leavu3 release.

 

There have also been some leavu clones made out there incl dlink. I've been away too long so I don't know what really has been going on in the community.

 

Was leavu2 and the other mods incl dlink also banned from public servers and events?

Edited May 1, 2016 by =RvE=Yoda

[Beeroshima]

Sigh. It seems like the small minds will win this debate. I hope they don't break helios in the process. Then again, I'm probably "cheating and hacking" by using it so maybe they should. /facepalm.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[sobe]

If Helios is banned, then I will quit DCS and go back to Falcon BMS.

[Beeroshima]

Guys, please, calm down. One of the points of the new IC is to make MP a fair play.

This mod, which I was unaware of before, runs outside of the scope of the IC. It uses the Export API. We have a server-side option to allow/forbid world objects export, but no option to control the ownship export, just because it was assumed to be safe.

 

So, talking about LEAVU-style mods, this is a simple question of adding a server-side option to allow/forbid ownship export. If I understand you correctly and this is what you want - the option will be added soon - it is relatively simple to implement.

I sincerely have great concern that this will affect helios and those that have built their own pits with functioning guages. Can you confirm if this will or will not affect them?

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Beeroshima]

If Helios is banned, then I will quit DCS and go back to Falcon BMS.

Likewise. The amount of money and time this will render wasted for me is staggering and heartbreaking.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[HiJack]

If Helios is banned, then I will quit DCS and go back to Falcon BMS.

Yes this is a great concern. I don't use any of this and don't have a cockpit build but I'm pretty sure ED will think of this. Maybe ED will create some ID that can be identifying each MOD so we can disable/enable types of mods. I hope we come out of this on the positive side sobe. While we are waiting for ED to deliver just don't let us draw any conclusions up front. :noexpression:

[c0ff]

I've thought about allow_ownship_export breaking the homecockpits...

It is possible to split this option into several ones with finer granularity.

Any ideas?

[GGTharos]

Yes, split out the sensors - Radar, RWR, optics, own position and disallow those. Export HSI/ADI properly, not own position. This will address the immediate issue.

 

A better idea - create the sensor layer (I know, I know, probably won't happen for FC3) and export what is exported to the cockpit sensors; have a completely separate 'export everything' telemetry function, but for cockpits, have a lua layer that exports what is seen in the cockpit.

 

What I mean by this: I know that in FC3 the RWR update delay is cosmetic. Get rid of the cosmetic and instead create a sensor that feeds information in at the correct rate, and export that data to lua also.

 

In this way, a Su-27 exports which RWR lamps are lit for example, with the same update rate as in-game.

 

You probably understand what I'm getting at - properly implement and export the instruments. This gets rid of a lot of problems like TVs giving you target info, or a Su-27 with an eagle radar, etc.

At the very least, implement such a thing for DCS level aircraft.

Edited May 4, 2016 by GGTharos

[Beeroshima]

Im not really sure as I have a fairly vague idea of how it works but I know several have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars and hours setting up their cockpits. If the work and money theyve spent gets turned off because of panic of some who are speculating and spreading falsehood and assumption as fact, it will be an absolute travesty. Honestly the mod is good enough to receive some endorsement from ED. If they would embrace it, and make it a standard, it would be a great service to what is probably the most popular airframe.

 

That's a pretty tall request but the whole turning off the game's ability to use ownship data is very concerning. If you want to ban the mod, because you're concerned with the rights of those refusing to use it, I hope the rights/work of those who use helios and home pits are taken into account as well, especially considering they are a recognized "sanctioned" part of the community that have contributed far more than the misinformation spreading whiners.

 

If track IR, teamspeak, and a joystick are considered additions that grant an advantage, I fail to see why this mod can't join that standard, especially when disabling it conceivably voids and makes unviable the work of such a large portion of the community.

 

I look forward to the discussion happening though.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Beeroshima]

Yes, split out the sensors - Radar, RWR, optics, own position and disallow those. Export HSI/ADI properly, not own position.

Doing this will probably break a lot of home pit builds. Touchscreens are another probable casualty

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Snoopy]

Im not really sure as I have a fairly vague idea of how it works but I know several have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars and hours setting up their cockpits.

 

I'm one of those, I was an early adapter of Helios and have been flying with it ever since. It exporting of the MFCDs, clock, CMSP, etc goes away it will take a large portion of the fun out of DCS for me.

 

Also curious how I'll have to change my weapon repaint mod to ensure it works. Tried to read through all 13 pages but I may have missed something.

[GGTharos]

What on earth would this have to do with touch screens? You can arrange things so that you can still export switches so you can manipulate displays, and you can still export the displays. You just can't export the data from the displays.

 

Doing this will probably break a lot of home pit builds. Touchscreens are another probable casualty

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[OldE24]

first off beeroshima you need to stop trolling..there are mod users and there are NON mod users get over it just the way it is.

 

 

GGTharos is on to maby the better ideas but as he says it probably wont happen with FC3 but the other aircraft might be easier? maby just somehow block the export of this infor for just FC3.

 

i'm a HUGE user of the VTB viewport on the mirage and if you think people have an issue with leavu i get crap for just having my radar on my main screen in the top right corner...

Edited May 4, 2016 by OldE24

[Beeroshima]

What on earth would this have to do with touch screens? You can arrange things so that you can still export switches so you can manipulate displays, and you can still export the displays. You just can't export the data from the displays.

Because why bother having a touchscreen if there's no real time data depicted on it because they've disabled it.....theres a word for the interface you can touch but conveys nothing back. It's called a keyboard.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Beeroshima]

first off beeroshima you need to stop trolling..there are mod users and there are NON mod users get over it just the way it is.

 

 

GGTharos is on to maby the better ideas but as he says it probably wont happen with FC3 but the other aircraft might be easier? maby just somehow block the export of this infor for just FC3.

 

i'm a HUGE user of the VTB viewport on the mirage and if you think people have an issue with leavu i get crap for just having my radar on my main screen in the top right corner...

First off, you need to get over this idea that im trolling. Your concerns, although idiotic were addressed. I made a statement that coff felt the need to respond to. I'm not sure who you think you are that you get to tell me to stop. If I want any more crap out of you, I'll squeeze your head. If you dont like what I have to say, dont include yourself in the conversation.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk