How much better is Rift than Vive for DCS World?

[captainkoloth]

I've tried both units at demo locations at stores and I've been really really impressed with VR generally and am going to invest in one of the two headsets. Here's my situation: I think primarily I will be playing more hours of DCS World than anything else in VR. I know that it looks significantly better in Rift than Vive. However, my problem is that I'm a glasses wearer, I have eye issues that prevent me from wearing contacts, and I find the Vive to be much more comfortable with glasses than Rift. So my questions is this: How bad, really, truly, are the Vive graphical issues vs. Rift? Are we talking (subjectively) 5% worse? 20%? 50%? I work crazy hours so I'm probably going to be able to play maybe 2-3 hours a week. If I get lucky. So are the issues things I'm going to immediately, obviously notice, or are they things I would only see after playing and straining my eyes to see tiny text things after 750 hours+? Because I'm not going to be able to play anywhere near that amount of time. So basically, I realize the Rift's graphics are better, but are they that much better to be worth the tradeoff of extreme discomfort and if I'm only going to play a max of a few hours a week? Because the tradeoff here for me to have the improved graphics is, quite literally, physical pain.

 

PLEASE PLEASE don't turn this into an thread to bash Vive, or the developers, or whatever; I've gotten really frustrated with that on other forums where I've posed this question. Putting aside how we got to this point and whether this performance disparity should exist, I just want to know, as things stand today, and given what I laid out above, are the Vive problems really so bad that I should still go with the Rift?

[NeilWillis]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167648

[captainkoloth]

Yes, I read that, but it didn't answer the question I put here, which is why I asked it.

[RoyMi6]

Subjectively I'd say that Vive is about 10% worse than the Rift when it comes to the screen door effect and pixel fill issues - which is what you're really referring to.

 

The problem is that the Rift isn't 100% what you need to play DCS.

 

The Rift is only maybe.... 70/80% what you really want.

 

You can get by with the Rift, but there's a learning curve to understanding what things say when you can only JUST make out the text.

 

By being only 10% worse it really drops the experience down to a 60/70% kind of satisfaction with the Vive.

 

Some have argued that they don't care as it's the field of view increase with the Vive that makes the difference, but playing in the F15 I don't know how anyone can do it with the Vive and the radar - even with 20/15 vision without experience of what it MIGHT say I find it hard to read exactly what's going on.

 

However, this could all mean nothing if it's physically painful to wear the Rift with glasses... I suppose the only thing to consider is that permanent adjustments could be made to the headset to allow your glasses to fit better - like cutting away some of the foam.

[Justin Case]

8.3% worse.

 

On a more serious note I can contribute to this by telling you I'm using the Rift over my glasses and it works fine. Perhaps you could invest in a smaller set of glasses?

Edited May 31, 2016 by Justin Case

[Chivas]

My glasses are too wide to fit into the Rift comfortably. I just took the arms off a second pair of glasses I had and secured them into the headset so they could be easily removed if someone else wanted to try the Rift. The Rifts custom display, custom lenses, lightweight comfort, and especially the ATW Oculus software that allows for smoother game play makes it the more obvious choice for flight simmers. There is no way of knowing for sure, but I'm also expecting the Rifts controllers to be more refined as well. That said there is still a lot of immersive entertainment value in the Vive.

[captainkoloth]

I've read about some framerate issues with Vive vs Oculus, how bad are those? That's what I've been more worried about.

[Shabi]

Having gone from a DK2 to a Vive I can see a huuuuge drop in playability. It's not necessarily the frame rate drop but rather the fact that Vive reprojection doesn't work as well as Asynchronous Timewarp (in DCS at least).

 

For vive repro to work well you need at last 45fps, while ATW doesn't need that high a refresh rate. You can have a lot of settings on high and still get a decent experience with the Rift, whilst it's much more limiting in the Vive. This seems to me a bigger issue than optics, where I really don't think they are that different, or at least the difference is an order of magnitude smaller than the juddering from repro vs ATW.

 

THAT SAID, who knows what the drivers and dcs will do next week? It's all in development and you're a test rat in a cockpit ;)

[captainkoloth]

But to be clear, are you saying given a lower framerate the Rift is better, or that the framerate is inherently higher on Rift? There's a huge difference.

[Brewnix]

I Saw this. Looks like the Kickstarter was funded.

http://www.roadtovr.com/vr-lens-lab-brings-prescription-lenses-rift-vive-kickstarter-now-live/

[Shabi]

But to be clear, are you saying given a lower framerate the Rift is better, or that the framerate is inherently higher on Rift? There's a huge difference.

 

Given a lower framerate, the Rift is better than the Vive.

[hansangb]

In lower frame rates, the ATW helps. So it's that Rift is better performing. And if I were to put a subjective number, I would say it's 10-15% worse, but mostly due to lack of ATW. Who knows, it could be that Vive needs to tune things, or DCS may need to tune things for Vive. But bottom line is that you'll experience a better experience with CV1 *in* DCS.

[npole]

The game is nowhere optimized for VR... neither if you own a 1080 and set everything to low.

Of course this is not because of those devices, but because of DCS (in other games, with much more details, better gfx and such you can do four times those fps).

 

In conclusion: it's DCS that is not ready for VR... I believ the developers are investing their time to fix other things, rather than dedicate their time to the VR. It's an unfortunate situation for us.. but I understand this decision, since most ppl doesn't own an HMD (yet).

[adrianstealth]

I only use VR and only DCS over the last month & enjoying it alot

 

There are many others like me & the numbers are growing so it is really worth DCS devs committing to VR

 

if DCS didn't have compatibility I would have never tried it or bought about £120 worth of content, so DCS investing in VR works with out a doubt even at this fairly early stage

 

Flight Sims are really not very good looking at monitors

[NeilWillis]

I'd take your Rift along to the opticians and ask them for some assistance getting the right glasses/lenses and carriers for the system.

 

It would of course be a great step for diopter adjustment to be built in to the lenses, and I am sure with future developments, that will be a feature on their list of updates.

 

A set of cheap, small frames, and standard clear lenses won't cost a huge amount however. especially given the money invested in a Rift/Vive in the first place.

 

As for which to choose, I have seen very few people advocating the Vive over the Rift. It seems to me that on anything except room sized activity or a game in which you need the Vive style controllers, then the Rift is the best choice. It costs less too.

[npole]

As for which to choose, I have seen very few people advocating the Vive over the Rift. It seems to me that on anything except room sized activity or a game in which you need the Vive style controllers, then the Rift is the best choice. It costs less too.

 

I were used to think like this (I owned the Rift from the DK1...), until I tried the VIVE.

I was all: but I don't need this room scale thing... I'm only interested to the sims, etc... then the day I tried the VIVE and used its controllers, I really understood what the immersion is.

 

It's correct, for DCS only it doesn't make a big difference, but many of us doesn't play DCS only.. sometime you wanna enjoy something different, and ho man.. you don't understand what the VIVE is about until you try it.. the first day someone had to turn it off, coz I were by 5 hours "inside" there. :)

 

It costs more because of the tech: sensors and controllers... if they'll release the same for the Rift, the Rift will be eventually more expensive than the VIVE.

[sniperwolfpk5]

I were used to think like this (I owned the Rift from the DK1...), until I tried the VIVE.

I was all: but I don't need this room scale thing... I'm only interested to the sims, etc... then the day I tried the VIVE and used its controllers, I really understood what the immersion is.

 

It's correct, for DCS only it doesn't make a big difference, but many of us doesn't play DCS only.. sometime you wanna enjoy something different, and ho man.. you don't understand what the VIVE is about until you try it.. the first day someone had to turn it off, coz I were by 5 hours "inside" there. :)

 

It costs more because of the tech: sensors and controllers... if they'll release the same for the Rift, the Rift will be eventually more expensive than the VIVE.

 

Those are very strong points if you want to play other VR games and what I think future is VR, the dev will optimize both HMDs with the time and there will be time when there is negligible difference in both HMDs. Who knows dev support vive controllers, which will be game changer

[hannibal]

In conclusion: it's DCS that is not ready for VR... I believ the developers are investing their time to fix other things, rather than dedicate their time to the VR. It's an unfortunate situation for us.. but I understand this decision, since most ppl doesn't own an HMD (yet).

 

your conclusion us correct, and DCS HAS TO WORK ON OTHER Things!

i dont want to be stuck having to deal with 1.5 and 2.0 installs.

its a bonus when eagle dynamics introduces new or tweaked VR features, so i wil appreciate that.

 

VR optimizations will come! but not now, they are still knee deep in the game engine!

[Milopapa]

your conclusion us correct, and DCS HAS TO WORK ON OTHER Things!

i dont want to be stuck having to deal with 1.5 and 2.0 installs.

its a bonus when eagle dynamics introduces new or tweaked VR features, so i wil appreciate that.

 

VR optimizations will come! but not now, they are still knee deep in the game engine!

 

My problem with that is, the VR revolution has begun in April and while it has ways to go to become mainstream (as in masses will have it), now is the big opportunity to shine.

Trouble is, there is no real competition in this space, no alternative to DCS really. So a lot of us simply puts up with annoying decisions and looooong delays because this is still simply the best there is.

[dot]

I think this might be much better for DCS!

 

https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/06/raze...m-for-e3-2016/

 

 

from their:

 

Ask Them Anything: OSVR, makers of the OpenSource HDK VR headset, and unifying technologies to drive VR & AR success

 

 

On increased resolution - we want to make you guys happy, so maybe we just might have to give in to this request.

 

I'm hoping for at least 2550xRGBx1440 but hey said double so it could be higher :pilotfly:

[WindyTX]

I have both the Vive and the CV1. For dcs with pixel set at 2.0 and a gtx 1080 the CV1 is more like 70% better. Rarely any judder I can read the A10c hud and it is a much better experience overall.

I am keeping the Vive because the rest of my family love it. It plays DCS ok and if you need to justify the expense of VR to anyone else the Vive is the way to go.

Playing on a Vive is still way better than ever using a monitor and I found the fov and Color a significant step up from DK2.

Different A/C seem to work better in VR than others I find the F15c to be the worst. A10c is ok except for the HUD. The Russian A/C with the simpler HUDs are easier to read.

If you mainly want DCS get a CV1

Play other stuff Vive is a good choice.

All of it is better than a monitor.

 

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[hannibal]

what dcs mods and apps do you use with your VR setup?

[WindyTX]

Non I run the 1.5 beta tho' for me it has always been stable.

I prioritise frame rate over looks, tho I have not had time to look at all the settings for the 1080.

I have been exclusively VR since I got a DK2 nearly 2 years ago.

 

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[Wolf8312]

Andrew. You mentioned you take hits on area bombings as I do (10FPS). I was wondering do you just avoid missions with lots of such activity (Ka-50 battle, etc) and if so what do you focus on instead when playing DCS?

 

It seems that certain parts of the game are off limits no matter what rig one has right? I was just wondering how to play to get the best out of it....

[WindyTX]

Yep gave up on Battle. As for the rest I havent had a lot if time. Often just 2 player on A10c on my own mission fir training. 2player L39c instruction with a buddy tho he has only just received his Vive so instruction is about to start in earnest :).

104th was fine on CV1 and OK

on Vive once airborne. Tried a pairs take off on Vive tho on Open Conflict and that was a disaster because of the judder. ( update rate was so slow it was unuseable )

Plus on Vive F15 was noticeably worse than other Aircraft.

Overall I live with the judder at times I am lucky in that I am not susceptible to nausea or motion sickness so I just stick with it as it doesnt normally last too long.

 

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