D4n Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Happened two times now with Ktulu. U can ask him if u're not sure how he did it, but I pointed my EOS STRAIGHT at him, and, ... nothing. Blind EOS. DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
Ktulu2 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 As I said, we were at around 10NM I think and I was out of burner, so it does not seem crazy that you didn't see me. That is for the second time, the first, I simply can't remember to be honest. I could go watch the footage I recorded/maybe try to get a track, but that is if I have the time. I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
pepin1234 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Mig-29 is extremely downgraded. Some time I am from the rear and I cant lock my mate, he is with 100% RPM and even so the Mig-29 EOS cant track the hot sign. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
D4n Posted June 20, 2016 Author Posted June 20, 2016 As I said, we were at around 10NM I think and I was out of burner, so it does not seem crazy that you didn't see me. Well... here's the thing... (afaik) in real life the airplane fuselage will warm up from friction in air and will get HOTTER than the ground clutter (which is only problem with RADAR, not EOS systems afaik)... so it SHOULD've detected you... (and F-15 doesn't have stealth materials like F-22 / F-35 ;) ) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
Ktulu2 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 The range has a big effect, just as much as for radar (light waves, whatever the leght, loose their energy at the same distance rate). The fact I wasn't on burner lowers that initial intensity, thus reducing GREATLY the range of detection. Currently looking at tacview, will upload it shortly I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
GGTharos Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 That exactly why an IRST can see an aircraft in the air ... further than it can against ground clutter. Clutter produces a lot of noise that could present as false targets, and anything that isn't noise needs to have a much, much higher peak amplitude than the clutter to be detected. So you have: 1) Aircraft in look-down position 2) Aircraft with non-afterburning engines 3) Aircraft in a head-on position All of these contribute to reduce detection range, and ground clutter will contribute quite significantly. In 'ye olde times', certain IR missiles couldn't even lock onto the aircraft's tailpipe when against ground clutter, never-mind head-on encounters. While the sensors we are equipped with in this sim do not suffer from that particular issue, it blows your fuselage heating argument out of the water. This BS idea that clutter affects radar and not IR systems is just that: BS. Yes, the fuselage does get hotter due to friction, but not that much, and IRSTs aren't magical - the sheer volume of ground around the target return as well as absorption and blending of IR signature will cause your detection range to jump off a cliff. ;) Well... here's the thing... (afaik) in real life the airplane fuselage will warm up from friction in air and will get HOTTER than the ground clutter (which is only problem with RADAR, not EOS systems afaik)... so it SHOULD've detected you... (and F-15 doesn't have stealth materials like F-22 / F-35 ;) ) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Sweep Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 The S in MiG-29S means Salt-truck, right? :lol: Seriously, though, why are you using IRST against a high aspect target at 10 nmi? You got what you deserved: Degraded SA and no shot. Lord of Salt
Ktulu2 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) Ok : First engagement with you : We went down the merge after you tanked your way out of an aim120 ;), I cannot know when you tried going EOS in that. 2cd fight : You simply never really seemed offensive... 3rd fight : We got down to 4NM at significant altitude difference, I guess its just EOS usage... I said we didnt close to 10NM as I started shooting and decomiting at that point, you stayed commited to close longer Link to tacView : https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq_lEjzv-AgjgTlQ_TLOstPQVkK8 Edited June 20, 2016 by Ktulu2 I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
D4n Posted June 20, 2016 Author Posted June 20, 2016 Link to tacview: empty... :P DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
Ktulu2 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq_lEjzv-AgjgTlQ_TLOstPQVkK8 I have confirmation it works I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
D4n Posted June 20, 2016 Author Posted June 20, 2016 Oh I expected a YouTube video... (don't know how to play the file in TacView...) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
Ktulu2 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Download tacView, than simply double click on it I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
pr1malr8ge Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Mig-29 is extremely downgraded. Some time I am from the rear and I cant lock my mate, he is with 100% RPM and even so the Mig-29 EOS cant track the hot sign. Seems to be a Reoccurring theme with you.. RU= EXTREMELY DOWNGRADED NATO= WAY OVER POWERED pfft..... 1 For the WIN [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.
Frostie Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Ok : First engagement with you : We went down the merge after you tanked your way out of an aim120 ;), I cannot know when you tried going EOS in that. You seem to be outside or on the edge of gimbal limits of the MiG EOS. It seems he lost total SA on you and pointed the nose in the wrong place at 10km range. 2cd fight : You simply never really seemed offensive... This was pretty much a non contest, I don't believe the MiG even knew where you were and expecting to find you with EOS coming down on top of him like that is a tough ask. 3rd fight : We got down to 4NM at significant altitude difference, I guess its just EOS usage... I said we didnt close to 10NM as I started shooting and decomiting at that point, you stayed commited to close longer I don't understand the point of this, armed with R-77s against a lower bandit that is emitting at him but instead of using radar he is looking for you with EOS, bizarre, you seem to be out of burners and low creating a very low heat signature and really the MiG is just playing into your hands, flying blind and not too clever. These sort of tactics of flying around with just EOS work fine against guys that don't know what they're doing, if you're going to fly around at altitude like that against more experienced players you need to be more proactive and offensive with your radar. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
Ktulu2 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 I agree with Frostie. You should have been using radar there, I wouldn't have seen you ''more'' if you had it on. Probably keep EOS for sneaking up behind people/ post-merge. Not for head-on engagements where the enemy clearly has you. I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
D4n Posted June 20, 2016 Author Posted June 20, 2016 Well I managed to open it but don't know how to select my MiG and his F-15... Seems to be a Reoccurring theme with you.. RU= EXTREMELY DOWNGRADED NATO= WAY OVER POWERED pfft..... It's true, AIM-120 NO smoke AT ALL - R-77 and R-27 smoke like ******* ... (unrealistic) 1 DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
Ktulu2 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Ok... 1)simply look on the top you have plane selection (the only thing you can click on to have a list of planes) Not sure if this is genuine or just not trying enough. 2) the AIM-120 DOES NOT make smoke IRL! The R-27 DOES! This is a simulation, if you want a fair&balanced game unlike real life go play hawx or something. 3) Please don't turn the thread into a missile complain one, already so many out there. I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
*Rage* Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 EOS is very unreliable. It is not your primary sensor. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
Darkbrotherhood7 Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Well I managed to open it but don't know how to select my MiG and his F-15... It's true, AIM-120 NO smoke AT ALL - R-77 and R-27 smoke like ******* ... (unrealistic) It's not unrealistic, in real life the AMRAAM does not create smoke. At least not like the R-27/77 Mission: "To intercept and destroy aircraft and airborne missiles in all weather conditions in order to establish and maintain air superiority in a designated area. To deliver air-to-ground ordnance on time in any weather condition. And to provide tactical reconaissance imagery" - F-14 Tomcat Roll Call [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
ShuRugal Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 fuselage will warm up from friction in air and will get HOTTER WARNING: Pet-Peeve rant inbound Atmospheric "friction", while often cited, is not the cause of heating high-speed airborne objects. The cause is actually compression heating via Boyle's/Charle's Laws. As the plane passes through the air, it must move the air out from in front of it. As speed increases, the plane begins to push the air ahead of and around it faster than it can move out of the way (what with all the rest of the atmosphere in the way) and it compresses the air. As speed increases further, this compression takes place rapidly enough to significantly heat the air and any surface in immediate contact with the air being compressed. This phenomenon can be demonstrated on a small scale with a fire-piston. With this device, a small volume of air is contained in a chamber and rapidly compressed by slapping a tight-fitting piston down through the chamber. By this method, it is possible to briefly generate temperatures in excess of 150 degrees centigrade with only the power of your hand. A good example of how this applies to a plane is to look at all the engineering work that goes into keeping the inlets on supersonic aircraft from burning off (This is actually the major speed limiter on the MiG-25, since the Russians opted to use an all-steel construction) TL;DR version: "Air friction heating" is not a thing. "Air compression heating" is the most technically correct, but "air resistance heating" is also accurate, if less descriptive.
Sweep Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 It's true, AIM-120 NO smoke AT ALL - R-77 and R-27 smoke like ******* ... (unrealistic) Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...:music_whistling: [ame] [/ame] [ame] [/ame] https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a63ddcc0c289f9457bc3ebab.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/13808/aim_120__main.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vndv7xJchno/U13_owsaJAI/AAAAAAAABg8/j0YyMMNMZNY/s1600/AIM-120C_AMRAAM_Launch_From_F-22_lg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fZbKVKY.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/76/07/3e/76073eb69611d955e4fd5c7216ae2627.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Mig_29_firing_AA-10.JPG https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Su-27-R-73-point-of-view.jpg Lord of Salt
winchesterdelta1 Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 Tried to explain him yesterday. But no he was sure it was a EOS bug. But just like i expected from his story yesterday it is a total loss of SA and using the wrong sensors to try and find him. Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.
FLANKERATOR Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 Nice fight (0:29) but any reason you both kept pressing until you mutually killed each other? Situational Awareness: https://sa-sim.com/ | The Air Combat Dojo: https://discord.gg/Rz77eFj
Stuge Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 Conclusion: eos failed to lock because target non afterburning. Eos is great for stealth but if youre seen and eos doesnt lock immediately switch to radar instead... http://www.104thphoenix.com
Recommended Posts