Trouble Hovering, and Vertical Landings

[LtMacGowan]

Look I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. when i try and hover over an object ill pull up and cut power until my speed drops, then im constantly fighting to keep the pitch/power right and im dancing all over the place drifting forward, drifting right, etc etc

 

and when i try to land i get the same issues except sometimes i seem to cause a vortex ring state, however, ive learned to avoid entering that condition most of the time now but i still worry that when i land ill slice off the tail boom with my own rotors

[NeilWillis]

Yep, it is the most difficult aspect of rotary wing operations to master.

 

There are lots of things you can do to make life easier, the most obvious of which is to have a good set of pedals, and a stick extension so you can make those small precise inputs.

 

Next, VR will give you that extra depth perception that brings these evolutions into the realms of reality, so you can tell exactly how your ship is behaving.

 

Given the fact that you're asking the question here tells me that you'll persist and master it regardless of the gear you're using, and that's fundamentally what matters. Time, sweat, and frustration leads to accomplishment, and that brings a huge sense of satisfaction.

 

Basically, try to react small, and react early to any undesirable movements, look at a reference point well away from you, and practice practice practice.

[lmp]

drifting forward, drifting right, etc etc

 

That's actually how it's supposed to be. One thing that might help you is to set your trim before take off to about 1/8th - 1/6th of the way back and right. Use the control indicator at first (CTRL + ENTER) to help you judge this. And then as you take off, trim often. Practice hover taxis, then introduce transitioning to and from cruise. Leave yourself lots of space, try to make your maneuvers as precise as possible.

 

You can also experiment with the joystick curves. I have mine set to 17 on the X and Y axis and it helps me to be a lot more precise. Some people argue against using curves... I say, try and see what works for you.

 

Regarding VR and stick extensions: Investing a ton of cash in hardware is all well and good, but I guarantee you can get good results with a $50 T.16000m joystick.

Edited July 26, 2016 by lmp

[NeilWillis]

Very true Imp, curves can help some people, but they can also complicate matters so you can not build up muscle memory because you're always tweaking things.

 

And naturally, the hardware route isn't a practical solution for a lot of people.

 

Bottom line is just keep practicing, and try to understand the aerodynamics involved. A sloppy stick, and no depth perception just add to the challenge.

[Cibit]

I made a series of videos on this subject link in sig. They have helped a few folk and perhaps may help you too:)

[Looney]

A helicopter is inherently unstable as opposed to fixed wing aircraft who will leisurely follow whatever input is being given.

 

So, a helicopter always will try to do whatever you don't want it to do and you will constantly need to compensate with opposite control inputs. Make sure your corrections are small and smooth, avoid being abrupt because you'll quickly be in the "Pilot induced oscillation" region of movement where your inputs will only make things worse.

[Slazi]

Time on stick is key. After a lot of hours, you can predict how it will react to your inputs in most situations. Once you get to this point, you'll be controlling the helo and it will no longer be controlling you.

[Looney]

Time on stick is key. After a lot of hours, you can predict how it will react to your inputs in most situations. Once you get to this point, you'll be controlling the helo and it will no longer be controlling you.

 

This more than anything else. Last night, I was on our MP server just doing traffic patterns with touch and gos on the runway. I must've made 10 or 20 landings and the more you have under your belt, the more you realize you get closer and closer to that sweet spot of controlling e.g. she does exactly what you want her to do!

[lmp]

I recently got back to the Mi-8 and it almost felt like starting all over again. You need to practice helicopter flying regularly to stay proficient. After a few hours I was again in control when it came to landings in flat terrain. But mountain flying is a different thing altogether...

 

Which is actually a pretty good newbie advice - start somewhere flat and once you get that down, be prepared to spend yet more hours practicing mountain operations. The horizon line is an important reference and when it's behind a mountain, things get harder.

[Grogshop]

Pedals. Pedals. Pedals.

 

I bought some pedals yesterday and have witnessed the single biggest improvement in my helo piloting skills to date.

 

Logitech 3D Pro - I don't crash ALL the time,

X55 Rhino - I only crash sometimes.

X55 + pedals - I'm going to land on the top of the control tower. Because I can.

 

If you can afford them, then PEDALS.

 

I've even managed to use the opposite cyclic & rudder technique to successfully get my Hip out of VRS, which I've never quite managed before.

 

But yeah, practise also helps!

[Socket7]

As you raise the nose to slow your forward speed, you have to lower the collective to avoid climbing. As your forward speed reduces, you begin to lose translational lift and you then need to reapply collective to maintain altitude. If you anticipate needing that extra collective because of the loss of translational lift, and add it before you being sinking, your transitions will get a lot smoother and you'll be less prone to getting into VRS during them. Keep a note of how much collective you need to hover while stationary, and you'll begin to get a feel for how much you need to give it to slow to a perfect hover from forward flight.. It will all become natural instinct once it "clicks".

 

For landings try and get as low as possible before entering a hover. Descending 100 meters in a hover leaves you in a precarious situation for a very long time, making you impatient, making you rush things and crash. (Or at least, that's what always happens to me.)

 

If you want to practice hovering, try sling loading cargo. It demands precise hover control.

 

I made a mission for landing practice in the MI-8, actually. When you can beat this mission reliably, you'll be an expert! Or at least competent. :pilotfly:

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1277734/

 

Uhm. Let me know if the latest version of DCS has broken anything in it. I dont think it should have.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Socket7

[Rogue Trooper]

Look I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. when i try and hover over an object ill pull up and cut power until my speed drops, then im constantly fighting to keep the pitch/power right and im dancing all over the place drifting forward, drifting right, etc etc

 

and when i try to land i get the same issues except sometimes i seem to cause a vortex ring state, however, ive learned to avoid entering that condition most of the time now but i still worry that when i land ill slice off the tail boom with my own rotors

 

I think you get it right in your description; It is a dance and a dance that requires the finest of inputs of all three inputs at once, pedals, cyclic and collective. But you need to "feel" how each module in the sim has weight. How long does this machine take to stop in any given direction with the given cyclic input to stop. How does its weight behave after you have inputted a cyclic/collective command to the opposite of its current direction of motion. How much time passes before it obeys your command. This is critical per module.

 

Further and as you know and are learning, VRS is a mother in this big old girl... but again it is the same old thing, how is the weight working with my input... she drops into VRS very slow but once she has entered VRS she accelerates hard into VRS!

it is a simple case of understanding the choppers weight in the SIM. she initially maintains forward flight through sheer mass but once she drops into VRS she maintains VRS through Sheer mass.

 

This is the hardest thing about choppers in the Sim world and is the most important thing to master.... what is the machines weight and is it modelled correctly or does it "feel" right?

The MI-8 is top notch coding by the way.

 

Until multipit,you just have to soldier on. Once Multipit becomes real then the experienced Sim pilot in the co-pilot seat will immediately tell you what is needed in flight.

In the holy of grail of chopper sims... the DCS multipit is long overdue.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Rogue Trooper

[Cibit]

 

Until multipit,you just have to soldier on. Once Multipit becomes real then the experienced Sim pilot in the co-pilot seat will immediately tell you what is needed in flight.

In the holy of grail of chopper sims... the DCS multipit is long overdue.

 

You saw this right ?

[Zimmerdylan]

One very important thing to keep in mind that no one says to do because they're so use to doing it and forget that it's happening is that if you move the collective at all, you need to counter that move with the rudder. So the movement of the pedals and the collective should become one simultaneous movement. It's like an orchestrated dance. Once you get that into your mind when you fly rotocraft, it makes things less of a wreck and makes everything flow a bit better. Just remember, you change the collective, you move the rudder at the same time.

[Slazi]

The most significant improvement I made in my flying came from oil rigs. I had an air start misson near an oil rig. I would spend an hour or more just hovering, landing, and taking off. After that, I was a much better pilot.

[firmek]

Time on stick is key. After a lot of hours, you can predict how it will react to your inputs in most situations. Once you get to this point, you'll be controlling the helo and it will no longer be controlling you.

True point. It really takes time to get a good feel of when and how much input to apply. The controls are not taking immediate effect but it takes a while for the chopper to react. In result the precise, details maneuvers to some extend require predicting as how much reactive force should be applied to the controls.

 

Might seem as a boring thing to do but what helped me a lot was practicing a hover taxi by just flying really low (in ground effect), slow (below transitional effect) and precisely over the taxiways and runway in circles. By precisely I mean keeping the chopper over the taxiway without flying outside of its boundaries it into the grass. Especially the sharp turns can be difficult but a lot of fun.

[ebabil]

i have very fewer hours with mi-8 than uh-1. but although this i can say that controlling mi-8 is way more easy than huey. you can predict its manuevers, huey is acting like a wild horse.