To many aircraft?

[klem]

A bit OT I know but it also affects which servers are available to fly in. There are a depressing number of servers with no-one in them and often at the most just 2 or 3 (I know there are time zones involved). There are a few that are more of a magnet but the thinly spread player base and wide aircraft choice can make it hard to find a server with good numbers and my aircraft of choice at the time. I'm happy with the aircraft choices, just wish more would fly as an online community in good public missions rather than hiding 2 or 3 players behind 20 passworded servers.

[funkyfranky]

Hawkeye, completely understand your "problem"! ;)

[Hawkeye60]

Hawkeye, completely understand your "problem"!

 

Yea.....

 

Right now I'm so addicted to the Gazelle..........

 

I think I caught the Gazellika virus!:D

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself!:doh:

[Angelthunder]

Well,just wait until ED and other 3rd parties implements fully modeled controllable Bombers,transports,reconnaissance,drones,ASW,SAR aircraft,tanks & APCs,vehicles,subs,destroyers,carriers,battleships,suface-to-air missles & ground artillery and maybe infantry someday.:D

[Coxy_99]

Well,just wait until ED and other 3rd parties implements fully modeled controllable Bombers,transports,reconnaissance,drones,ASW,SAR aircraft,tanks & APCs,vehicles,subs,destroyers,carriers,battleships,suface-to-air missles & ground artillery and maybe infantry someday.:D

 

Two weeks ;)

[Feuerfalke]

I don't think this is a problem of "too many aircraft".

 

But IMHO the number of aircraft we have are scattered over too many simulation levels and time periods with barely any connection between them other than every single one for itself is a legend.

[shagrat]

I don't think this is a problem of "too many aircraft".

 

But IMHO the number of aircraft we have are scattered over too many simulation levels and time periods with barely any connection between them other than every single one for itself is a legend.

That is, why good AI especially for ground units is so important.

Great co-op missions could be done for the ground attack/support and CAS focused modules, e.g. Su-25, Ka-50, A-10A, A-10C, Huey, Gazelle, LC-39ZA, Hawk, C-101CC... and even M2000C and F-5E are great in that capacity.

The rest has nice matching adversaries, but the majority of interesting gameplay would profoundly benefit from more sophisticated AI options.

WW II without working bomber formations, modern conflicts from CAS to COIN without civilians to protect/keep out of harm.

And the overall lack of detailed damage and damage effects on AI planes, ground vehicles and such, makes it difficult to build interesting co-op scenarios and living, immersive war environments until today.

 

If we just add more consistent player planes, we still only get "dogfight-arena"...

 

I had a total blast today flying in Gazelle dual-cockpit with two friends!

This is the greatest invention in DCS since years, to man a machine and work together.

Yet it was utterly frustrating to get hammered, by the "Uber AI".

I can't see a DCS mission where 40 to 60 players man the AAA, Tanks or APCs in the near future, just to help some pilots have a more realistic and immersive mission environment, thus in my oppinion a fair and intelligent AI with options to be restricted or in depth controlled by mission designers, can provide a perfect environment for a whole more bunch of planes and helicopters.

[Kaszub]

(...)And the overall lack of detailed damage and damage effects on AI planes, ground vehicles and such, makes it difficult to build interesting co-op scenarios and living, immersive war environments until today.

 

Have I missed something?

 

If we just add more consistent player planes, we still only get "dogfight-arena"...

 

I disagree. Look at the most popular servers in DCS: half of them are airquakes. The problem is, without consistent planes, we cannot create realistic scenarios for missions. For example: I want to create a pvp mission and in that mission I will fly Mirage with my buddies. Who is gonna be our oponent? Mig-21s? Mig-15s? Or I want to fly Mig-21 and it's the same thing: Sabre? Mirage? F-14? You see? There has to be at least one blue aircraft and one red aircraft from the same time to face each other, like Mig-15 vs F86 Sabre. Without that, pvp is basically on its knees and the only way to fly together is coop, but killing AI isn't that much fun after a while...

[shagrat]

Same time?! That would be

MiG-21bis vs. F-15C (early armament, AIM-9 and AIM-7) or F-5E, or Mirage2000C... and no, they are not "balanced", if you want balance you need same planes on both sides, as there was virtually never a "fair and balanced" fight in real life.

 

You can look up production and use dates on Google.

For example the MiG-21bis introduced in 1985 is still in active service today.

So is the F-5E and the M2000C seems to be retiring now (Peruvian air force still have them, but mostly not in flying condition these days?).

 

And realistic(!) PvP engagements would be MiG-15bis vs. F-86F or P-51D vs. Bf-109K-4 or FW-190D-9... Maybe Mirage 2000C and F-15C vs. Aggressor F-15Cs and F-16(AI) over NTTR. Not sure a fight between MiG-21bis and F-5E ever happened.

 

I know what you want, but since Korea there wasn't a fight with "balanced" planes, as one side or the other pitted more modern stuff into the fight.

 

As was discussed many times in many threads, DCS is not about balancing, contemporary planes, but simulating, available/contracted planes to the highest possible level. If you don't get the green lights from the military, Intellectual Property owners, no accurate blueprints, information, etc. it can't be done.

 

You still have the option to "balance" the weapons to appropriate timelines (F-15C, MiG-21bis)...

[Kaszub]

Same time?! That would be

MiG-21bis vs. F-15C (early armament, AIM-9 and AIM-7) or F-5E, or Mirage2000C... and no, they are not "balanced", if you want balance you need same planes on both sides, as there was virtually never a "fair and balanced" fight in real life.

 

You can look up production and use dates on Google.

For example the MiG-21bis introduced in 1985 is still in active service today.

So is the F-5E and the M2000C seems to be retiring now (Peruvian air force still have them, but mostly not in flying condition these days?).

 

And realistic(!) PvP engagements would be MiG-15bis vs. F-86F or P-51D vs. Bf-109K-4 or FW-190D-9... Maybe Mirage 2000C and F-15C vs. Aggressor F-15Cs and F-16(AI) over NTTR. Not sure a fight between MiG-21bis and F-5E ever happened.

 

I know what you want, but since Korea there wasn't a fight with "balanced" planes, as one side or the other pitted more modern stuff into the fight.

 

As was discussed many times in many threads, DCS is not about balancing, contemporary planes, but simulating, available/contracted planes to the highest possible level. If you don't get the green lights from the military, Intellectual Property owners, no accurate blueprints, information, etc. it can't be done.

 

You still have the option to "balance" the weapons to appropriate timelines (F-15C, MiG-21bis)...

 

I'm not asking for balance, but for a thinking, some kind of plan when deciding on creating a new module. You've mentioned some conflicts/training scenarios, but for example, for Mig-21, there should also be in plan creation of F-4 Phantom, which was his main adversary in Vietnam War. I'm asking for a posibility of creation a pvp mission with fighters from the same generation and both sides(East and West), that's all. I'm glad, that there is no balance in DCS, like buffing missiles just because some people complainted, that "they can't kill stuff and opposite team can."

[shagrat]

I'm not asking for balance, but for a thinking, some kind of plan when deciding on creating a new module. You've mentioned some conflicts/training scenarios, but for example, for Mig-21, there should also be in plan creation of F-4 Phantom, which was his main adversary in Vietnam War. I'm asking for a posibility of creation a pvp mission with fighters from the same generation and both sides(East and West), that's all. I'm glad, that there is no balance in DCS, like buffing missiles just because some people complainted, that "they can't kill stuff and opposite team can."

There can't be a "masterplan", as I explained it is about the possibility to get the license, contract, data, manuals, and if possible pilots to model a certain plane.

It isn't that companies don't want to make an F-4E Phantom II, or a Tornado, or XXX. They don't necessary get the license involve, or maybe they can't afford it. Sometimes there isn't enough data or a manual available, and sometimes no modeler is interested in making a certain plane everybody wants.

 

Even if all data and license is available, the whole development must be financially viable, invest vs. revenue... at least it should be.

[Feuerfalke]

I disagree. Look at the most popular servers in DCS: half of them are airquakes. The problem is, without consistent planes, we cannot create realistic scenarios for missions. For example: I want to create a pvp mission and in that mission I will fly Mirage with my buddies. Who is gonna be our oponent? Mig-21s? Mig-15s? Or I want to fly Mig-21 and it's the same thing: Sabre? Mirage? F-14? You see? There has to be at least one blue aircraft and one red aircraft from the same time to face each other, like Mig-15 vs F86 Sabre. Without that, pvp is basically on its knees and the only way to fly together is coop, but killing AI isn't that much fun after a while...

 

Exactly my opinion.

 

There is no AI ever as good and unpredictable as a real player.

But if you set something up realistic or balanced, it's always different eras and simulation-details making a runup against each other.

 

About the opponent: That is exactly the weak point, IMHO. Currently, we have Dora/109 against P51, Mirage 2000 against Mig21, Mig15 against Sabre or something like eastern A-10Cs against western A-10Cs, eastern full set of FC3 against the same aircraft with western nations, etc.....

Sadly, the above is a list of 95% of all online servers.

 

But none of them offers the feeling of a consistend battlefield. At least not for me.