Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[Manzanita]

People please don't turn this into another missile perfomance thread.

 

Back on topic:

 

Like someone already suggested, why not give the Flankers back their datalink? It seems that the human controlled GCI works really well for BLUE, and since that sort of cooperation is mostly absent or non-existant for RED this sounds like a really good idea to balance things out a bit.

 

This is a really good idea.

+1

 

Thank you but I was looking for something more detailed if there is something. For example when you can conquer sites, what can helicopters carry...

 

The latest SOP seems to be down even then it's not current with what we having going on for testing right now. You could try giving round 8 SOP a look. http://www.foinikas.org/crash/data/SOP%20OPERATION%20BLUE%20FLAG.pdf

[microvax]

I dunno, the Mirage already doesnt have its datalink in game, asking for le flanker family datalink and disabling the D2M is a little odd. :D

 

 

I know the 2000c didnt carry the D2M in any airforces service, even with it beeing technically completely capable of it, its just that nobody bought the option for the C, just the N.

 

I mean bring it, but you will probably notice that if the Mirage pilot is doing his job correctly, removing it will change nothing in A2A, and will only remove the manpads warning functionality its really inteded for, when you are doing A2G.

 

 

The ET cant even pick up the Mirage headon before a properly launched 530 reaches the flanker, and in combination with ERs you are defensive while supporting the shot in anyways and you can not rely on the D2M because its only lower hemisphere.

So you assume Ts in the air and flare anyway.

So please, if you think thats going to make the flanker great again, bring it, even if I find it mildly funny that people think, that is going to give them the edge.

 

The numbers, as far as I have seen, did recover from the complete rubbish state. If possible datalink could be a dynamic feature at the start of a rotation. So if redfor was massively outnumbered last rotation, so they could not afford someone on GCI, enable it.

If the numbers are not worse then 2:1 keep it disabled. Just that nobody does GCI, doesnt justify datalink.

 

 

Oh and BTW. Flanker and F15 completely unrealistic feature, because of which ER and R and AIM7 would have to be removed like the D2M, to achieve more realism.

SARH missiles from FC3 are actively guided within the target track memory even outside gimball limits.

 

I am fine with D2M disabled, I am fine with D2M disabled and Datalink dynamically enabled.

I find it pretty topkek to ask for D2M disabled and datalink enabled, feels a lot like the wish to have it easier to kill mirages, while its not even of balancing concern, since both sides have Mirages.

[OnlyforDCS]

Someone please correct me if Im wrong but is it even possible to remove the D2M functionality of the Mirage as a server side mod?

 

I am against any further nerfing of any airframe, IMO I think they even took it too far by removing the ER, ET and AIM120C and the Flanker's datalink but if we really want a proper RED vs BLUE server I guess that's what we get. No more nerfs, but I think the datalink is not an unreasonable request to balance against Blue's superior Simple Radio use and better SARH missile choice. (AIM7)

[microvax]

You can disable the D2M server side since a kind of a what if feature in terms that it has the capability, but no airforce used it.

 

Imho E* and AIM120 simply have a to big F-pole for the distances we are fighting over. Same reason for not higher end base defence SAMs.

[kobeshow]

All of these discussions on different topics about balance are highly amusing, you guys keep running in your hamster wheels and seem to ignore anything that has been said by BS-team in the past and/or does not fit your point of view.

(I was gone for a week and just read the last ~20 pages)

[OperatorJack]

feels a lot like the wish to have it easier to kill mirages, while its not even of balancing concern, since both sides have Mirages.

 

I fly Mirages as my only A2A plane in BF you fool

[M0ltar]

I dunno, the Mirage already doesnt have its datalink in game, asking for le flanker family datalink and disabling the D2M is a little odd. :D

 

 

I know the 2000c didnt carry the D2M in any airforces service, even with it beeing technically completely capable of it, its just that nobody bought the option for the C, just the N.

 

I mean bring it, but you will probably notice that if the Mirage pilot is doing his job correctly, removing it will change nothing in A2A, and will only remove the manpads warning functionality its really inteded for, when you are doing A2G.

 

 

The ET cant even pick up the Mirage headon before a properly launched 530 reaches the flanker, and in combination with ERs you are defensive while supporting the shot in anyways and you can not rely on the D2M because its only lower hemisphere.

So you assume Ts in the air and flare anyway.

So please, if you think thats going to make the flanker great again, bring it, even if I find it mildly funny that people think, that is going to give them the edge.

 

The numbers, as far as I have seen, did recover from the complete rubbish state. If possible datalink could be a dynamic feature at the start of a rotation. So if redfor was massively outnumbered last rotation, so they could not afford someone on GCI, enable it.

If the numbers are not worse then 2:1 keep it disabled. Just that nobody does GCI, doesnt justify datalink.

 

 

Oh and BTW. Flanker and F15 completely unrealistic feature, because of which ER and R and AIM7 would have to be removed like the D2M, to achieve more realism.

SARH missiles from FC3 are actively guided within the target track memory even outside gimball limits.

 

I am fine with D2M disabled, I am fine with D2M disabled and Datalink dynamically enabled.

I find it pretty topkek to ask for D2M disabled and datalink enabled, feels a lot like the wish to have it easier to kill mirages, while its not even of balancing concern, since both sides have Mirages.

 

I don't know that anyone is calling for the D2M to be removed. I think people are just bit annoyed at how nerfed the flanker and 29 are. I'm one for giving and enabling everything in the game and not taking anything away. Give the 15 the 120 and give the flanker the data link. Doesn't bother me. However, I don't think that will happen.

 

I just want the flanker and 29 to have something a bit better. The R and R are garbage missiles that are way below the aim 7 and 530. If that something is the ET, fine. If that something is the ER, fine. If that something is data link, fine. I just want something to help a bit. The 73 can only do so mich and I think this is the reason you see the complaints about the D2M is because red really only has the 73 and sneakyness.

 

Also, add A10C to red.

 

Edit: Also one of the only reasons I think we're are seeing a closer match in numbers is because Even went red this testing round. So what happens when we go blue next round? Could be wrong, but that is what is see.

Edited February 27, 2017 by M0ltar

[BodyOrgan]

Sorry for assuming all Huey's were BLUE. (As they have always been). IFF was out of question since he was grounded and couldn't get a lock but that's just another excuse. :)

 

Because your RvE buddy literally said he would and funnily enough I got shot right after by someone in friendly territory?

 

I'm not, my original post was more making the point why having kill-messages re-enabled is important. Seems because I mentioned RvE, you and your boys have mounted the defensive. Wouldn't be the first time.

Rounds 7-9 are the only rounds WARSAW vs NATO. Prior to those rounds strike aircraft/choppers were shared between the teams.

 

I feel sorry for the poor chopper pilot who wasted 40+ minutes of flight to be team killed by the horde of QuakeAir.

 

So please, if you think thats going to make the flanker great again, bring it, even if I find it mildly funny that people think, that is going to give them the edge.

It isn't about edge, but about making the Flanker competitive if that's even possible with those missiles.

 

Oh and BTW. Flanker and F15 completely unrealistic feature, because of which ER and R and AIM7 would have to be removed like the D2M, to achieve more realism.

SARH missiles from FC3 are actively guided within the target track memory even outside gimball limits.

Oh you mean like the Mirage radar maintaining lock through mountains or when it isn't even facing the target?

 

All of these discussions on different topics about balance are highly amusing, you guys keep running in your hamster wheels and seem to ignore anything that has been said by BS-team in the past and/or does not fit your point of view.

(I was gone for a week and just read the last ~20 pages)

Welcome to the wishlist thread.

 

Here's what I'd like to see:

 

• Strike Aircraft, and Choppers shared between the teams. I'd like to get some multi-crew action in a Gazelle too, why does Bluefor have to be so stingy? ;)
  
• Leave Mirage as is including D2M.
  
• Leave F-15C as is.
  
• Give Russian aircraft their datalink, and better SARH missiles. (I don't understand why everyone thinks they must go into combat having the worst SA, and the worst weapons or it's OP.)
  
• EDIT: Almost forgot. One I really want to see is own plane removed from F10 map. I can't wait for everyone to get lost.
  

I think the only reason everyone is afraid to give the Flanker its datalink is because it will force them to work as a team using legitimate tactics. No more of this cat, and mouse crap where everyone is flying at 1 meter off the ground hunting RWR spikes.

 

EDIT: Having the datalink would also make capturing the Comm arrays very important for Bluefor, because that's how datalink is propagated in multiplayer. Might also like to see a FARP pad at the Comm arrays to launch a small contingent of choppers (like 2 max) from a Comm array giving more options for strike.

Edited February 27, 2017 by BodyOrgan

[karambiatos]

 

EDIT: Having the datalink would also make capturing the Comm arrays very important for Bluefor, because that's how datalink is propagated in multiplayer. Might also like to see a FARP pad at the Comm arrays to launch a small contingent of choppers (like 2 max) from a Comm array giving more options for strike.

It's propagated by friendly radars, and having line of sight to them, and should also be propagated by planes in your group, but that doesn't work in MP.

[BodyOrgan]

It's propagated by friendly radars, and having line of sight to them, and should also be propagated by planes in your group, but that doesn't work in MP.

Yes, that's what I mean. The EWR at the Comm arrays. You're right about friendly aircraft in your group, but as you said that doesn't work in MP :(

[QuiGon]

• EDIT: Almost forgot. One I really want to see is own plane removed from F10 map. I can't wait for everyone to get lost.
  

 

+1

 

Oh yes! Please, make it happen! I don't understand why one of the most important things of proper airmanship (navigation) is kept away from the game, especially by a server like BlueFlag. :(

[Jugdriver]

 

 

Oh you mean like the Mirage radar maintaining lock through mountains or when it isn't even facing the target?

 

 

.

 

 

That was fixed months ago.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[BodyOrgan]

That was fixed months ago.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

Shh...... I was trying to set microVAX off ;)

[microvax]

Shh...... I was trying to set microVAX off ;)

 

Yeah difference is that the Mirage has a real track memory but doesnt guide SARH while no LOS is established, while FC3 track memory magically CW's a target beyond gimball limits. ;D

[BodyOrgan]

Yeah difference is that the Mirage has a real track memory but doesnt guide SARH while no LOS is established, while FC3 track memory magically CW's a target beyond gimball limits. ;D

NOOOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!! You were supposed to say something more profound! :thumbup:

 

EDIT: I guess I should quantify or maybe it's qualify....

Edited February 27, 2017 by BodyOrgan

[microvax]

I don't know that anyone is calling for the D2M to be removed. I think people are just bit annoyed at how nerfed the flanker and 29 are. I'm one for giving and enabling everything in the game and not taking anything away. Give the 15 the 120 and give the flanker the data link. Doesn't bother me. However, I don't think that will happen.

 

I just want the flanker and 29 to have something a bit better. The R and R are garbage missiles that are way below the aim 7 and 530. If that something is the ET, fine. If that something is the ER, fine. If that something is data link, fine. I just want something to help a bit. The 73 can only do so mich and I think this is the reason you see the complaints about the D2M is because red really only has the 73 and sneakyness.

 

Also, add A10C to red.

 

Edit: Also one of the only reasons I think we're are seeing a closer match in numbers is because Even went red this testing round. So what happens when we go blue next round? Could be wrong, but that is what is see.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3064080&postcount=1235 There is at least one. :D

 

I totally get that the FC3 missiles are garbage all together pretty much. The ER and ET and AIM120 pretty much only work because they have a higher booster output.

 

I think datalink really would be the best option. I personally do not mind flying against ER and ET or AIM120s with a Mirage, but I think a lot of other people would not like it and the ranges we fight over in blueflag are to small for that kind of ranges imho. Same reason for the kinda low end Airfield defences.

 

 

BTW afaik the AIM7 does have a lower topspeed then the r27, guidance should be the same AFAIK, dunno about chaff resistance.

Edited February 27, 2017 by microvax

[kobeshow]

NOOOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!! You were supposed to say something more profound! :thumbup:

 

EDIT: I guess I should quantify or maybe it's qualify....

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by kobeshow

[Manzanita]

So Blue has Mi-8's because they can do 160 knots whilst the Huey is slower. Should we give REDFOR F-15's because it's 100+ knots faster than the Flanker? When do you stop mixing in modules before both teams have every asset shared. Can we go back to trying to stay realistic to a setting instead of compromising realism for "balance". Give the 27 it's datalink for a start.

[Bersagliere81]

[*]EDIT: Almost forgot. One I really want to see is own plane removed from F10 map. I can't wait for everyone to get lost.

I approve this too. Other than the fun factor, it adds that extra challenge we all have a fetish for.

 

Also thanks for the pdf link

[microvax]

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

EDIT: So there is a video error with this, am I doing something wrong while embeding it?

 

 

lel You guys even havent found the best reference one could make for my nickname. :D

 

Try harder.

[kobeshow]

Not everything is about you and your memezlolz life (;

It was meant to be a funny reference to BodyOrgan trying to set you off, be happy about the fact that I don't want to start making jokes about your nickname, I don't even have to try hard to come up with something too inappropriate for this place.

 

And btw, what IS wrong with my videoembedding?

[Fedduk]

There is a thing called assymetrical (kek) balance. Ever heard of that?

Sides were balanced before the introduction of mirage, it was west vs east, now it is baguette fencing. I mean, balance might be even here, but diversity is not.

[OnlyforDCS]

Back on topic, again:

 

I have a question, is it worth it trying to do SEAD missions on the server? Are there even moderately dangerous threats worth taking out? Reason why I ask is I've yet to encounter anything really deadly (I mostly only fly AA) unless Im flying low.

 

Also, are the SAM sites also side specific (NATO vs Warsaw Pact) like most of the aircraft, or do both sides field Patriots, S300 etc. ?

[OperatorJack]

Back on topic, again:

 

I have a question, is it worth it trying to do SEAD missions on the server? Are there even moderately dangerous threats worth taking out? Reason why I ask is I've yet to encounter anything really deadly (I mostly only fly AA) unless Im flying low.

 

Also, are the SAM sites also side specific (NATO vs Warsaw Pact) like most of the aircraft, or do both sides field Patriots, S300 etc. ?

 

I think both sides get the same SAMs if I'm not mistaken

[OnlyforDCS]

So how is identification handled? How do you know which sites are hostile and which are friendly?