[FIXED] Incorrect Elevators?

[Krupi]

I hate to be a party pooper however I just want to raise a point, from the pictures the Spitfire currently has angled elevators with a small hornbalance.

 

Now it is my understanding that the early IX which were converted from MkV only had these, we have here an IX modelled after the MH434 a Spitfire Mk IX with a Merlin 66 as far as I am aware this was produced with the straight hornbalance elevators?

 

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html/3

 

The website states that the type 1 was phased out during MA builds so an MH should have the type 2

Edited November 8, 2016 by Krupi

[MiloMorai]

[rel4y]

Extended-horn elevators were introduced 13-9-43, serial nos having no bearing on which a/c had them, and which didn't

[Alicatt]

Extended-horn elevators were introduced 13-9-43, serial nos having no bearing on which a/c had them, and which didn't

 

MH434 had it's first flight in August 1943, which is before the date you are quoting.

 

I did read somewhere that the elevators were replaced on MH434 to the extended horn ones but I can't remember where or when it was done.

[Krupi]

As far as I am aware they released a kit so that the mod could be carried out on existing aircraft so I still question if the elevator is correct!

 

Right now we have the wheel blisters which were a late mod so I am not sure this aircraft ever looked like it currently does, it is a mash up :(

[rel4y]

I think you guys are absolutely right. :) Pretty much nothing is stock on MH 434 by now.

[NineLine]

We already went over this internally and it was determined what we have now is correct for what is modelled.

[Krupi]

Urghh just makes it even more of a 1943 aircraft less and less like the Spitfire you would have actually seen over Normandy and the type 2 elevators apparently had a big impact on the aircraft.

 

I wish they would include a IXe in this like the Gazelle has the different versions :(

Edited November 9, 2016 by Krupi

[rel4y]

I wouldnt say there is a correct or incorrect tbh.

[Krupi]

We already went over this internally and it was determined what we have now is correct for what is modelled.

 

That is definitely not true for the teardrop wheel blisters, from what I have read that was a mod related to concrete airstrips!

[Talisman_VR]

We already went over this internally and it was determined what we have now is correct for what is modelled.

 

The web page says this:

 

"Elevators

All except the initial production Mk. IXs had elevators with extended mass balance horns. Whereas the early Spitfires had a 45-degree break in the hinge line, this new pattern had an additional 45-degree break, resulting in the tip of the elevator pointing straight forward.

As a rule of thumb the early pattern is seen on Mk. IXs converted from Mk. Vs, and early original Mk. IXs. I’ve seen both patterns on aircraft in the MA serial range (Castle Bromwich – mid-1943 vintage)."

So I presume our DCS model is either a converted Mk V or one of the early original initial production batch Mk IX mid 1943 vintage. Correct? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[NineLine]

I wouldnt say there is a correct or incorrect tbh.

 

That might be more true, there was a lot going on with Spitfires at this time... stuff changing fast and all the time. So its no more wrong than it is right ;)

[NineLine]

So I presume our DCS model is either a converted Mk V or one of the early original initial production batch Mk IX mid 1943 vintage. Correct?

 

 

That is my understanding.

[Krupi]

I wouldnt say there is a correct or incorrect tbh.

 

My understanding is that for a Normandy time frame the majority of IX would have had the type 2 elevators

[Krupi]

That is my understanding.

 

That makes no sense, a Merlin 66 isn't exactly an early Mk IX is it!?

[NineLine]

My understanding is that for a Normandy time frame the majority of IX would have had the type 2 elevators

 

And the K-4 and D-9 wouldn't be flying over it... send a message to Luthier and let me know what he says ;)

 

Seriously though, we did grill ED on this internally when we first got the Spit, and it was determined for what they were modelling, this is correct.

[Krupi]

And the K-4 and D-9 wouldn't be flying over it... send a message to Luthier and let me know what he says ;)

 

Seriously though, we did grill ED on this internally when we first got the Spit, and it was determined for what they were modelling, this is correct.

 

Even with the late teardrop wheel hubs?

 

I seriously doubt that they are correct!

 

The model looks absolutely stunning, however I don't think it currently matches the MH434 at any point in history

[NineLine]

Even with the late teardrop wheel hubs?

 

I seriously doubt that they are correct!

 

If you can show proof otherwise, I will be happy to bring it to ED.

[NineLine]

Possible this helps?

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html/3

 

(This statement however, may be still open to discussion: At least some early Spitfires Mk. IXc did have bulges over the wheel well, as can be seen on the Mk. IXc preserved at TaQ’ali museum in Malta. It is possible that this modification (No. 529) was introduced already on the Mk. VC, replacing the previous overwing “fences” with thicker-gauge skin, bulges and internal stiffeners in the wheel wells. – Ed. Thanks to Edgar Brooks for information on this item).

[Euan Emblin]

And the K-4 and D-9 wouldn't be flying over it... send a message to Luthier and let me know what he says ;)

 

Seriously though, we did grill ED on this internally when we first got the Spit, and it was determined for what they were modelling, this is correct.

 

 

Yes, these aircraft were much more about Defence of the Reich weren't they? The situational compromise is just something that we have to swallow as suspension of disbelief and get on with it and fly. We will never have every aspect of every model in a sim able to stand up to total scrutiny from a historical perspective and anyway, who really cares, as we weren't there anyway!

[Krupi]

Possible this helps?

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html/3

 

That was a different type of blister more of a D shape not a teardrop.

 

I will look into this to make sure.

[NineLine]

That was a different type of blister more of a D shape not a teardrop.

 

I will look into this to make sure.

 

Let me know, I can submit it if you find something solid.

[rel4y]

Well what has to be mentioned though is that the carburettor intake is not factory anymore, as the larger Vokes Aero Vee was standardized/ retrofit only in 44. Originally MH 434 had the small carburettor intake, so it is at least an overhauled 1944 version of MH 434. Looking at the service time of MH 434 this would probably have happened while being at 84GSU (15-6-44).

 

222S 13-8-43 shot down Fw190 9-43 84GSU 15-6-44 ros 7-7-44 76MU 27-7-46

 

Maybe the elevator wasnt changed in that overhaul/repair, I say we simply cant know if its correct or incorrect unless we have pictures with a certain setup for a certain timepoint. ED also may know more than we do in this regard.

[NineLine]

Dont get too hung up on the MH 434, its not meant to be an exact replica of that aircraft, its based on the documentation Yo-Yo found at various places.

[Krupi]

Let me know, I can submit it if you find something solid.

 

It appears that i was mistaken about the fairing.

 

Well what has to be mentioned though is that the carburettor intake is not factory anymore, as the larger Vokes Aero Vee was standardized/ retrofit only in 44. Originally MH 434 had the small carburettor intake, so it is at least an overhauled 1944 version of MH 434. Looking at the service time of MH 434 this would probably have happened while being at 84GSU (15-6-44).

 

222S 13-8-43 shot down Fw190 9-43 84GSU 15-6-44 ros 7-7-44 76MU 27-7-46

 

Maybe the elevator wasnt changed in that overhaul/repair, I say we simply cant know if its correct or incorrect unless we have pictures with a certain setup for a certain timepoint. ED also may know more than we do in this regard.

 

Now that is an interesting question! I do not think that I have ever seen a spitfire with a volkes filter and the old elevator type... :huh: