Dogfighting in VR: so few pixels!

[Jamesp1]

I'm struggling to dogfight against the AI in VR (with labels on) because the enemy plane is so few pixels I can't really see what they're doing.

 

Mainly I've been trying WW2 fighters.

 

Anyone doing much dogfighting in VR?

If so, how do you find the lack of pixels and do you use the zoom function (haven't tried this yet) mapped to a hotas axis or something to help?

[Justin Case]

The zoom is implemented by a key, it works OK once you're used to it.

 

I honestly don't have that much of a problem dogfighting in VR. Last time I did it we flew MiGs Vs Sabres and that worked fairly well, without labels. I can't really say that any of my friends did better or worse with their monitors.

 

I have pixel density at 1.7, maybe that helps?

[metzger]

Hm.. I don't think number of pixels are different in vr or monitor. Vr is no different than montor you just looks at it very close. If the bandit is rendered on 2 pixels in a monitor it will be the same on the vr screen with the same res but you will see those 2 pixels larger. The sde is messing the visibility for VR.

I have some expirience with the dora against avarage p51 ai and most of the time I kill him. The problems for me were more like checking my six due to the limited fov and the fact that the AI flyes very clean while I overpull sometimes or mess the rudder inputs but this is another topic.

 

 

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Jamesp1]

Hm.. I don't think number of pixels are different in vr or monitor. Vr is no different than montor you just looks at it very close. If the bandit is rendered on 2 pixels in a monitor it will be the same on the vr screen with the same res but you will see those 2 pixels larger. The sde is messing the visibility for VR.

I have some expirience with the dora against avarage p51 ai and most of the time I kill him. The problems for me were more like checking my six due to the limited fov and the fact that the AI flyes very clean while I overpull sometimes or mess the rudder inputs but this is another topic.

 

 

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

Isn't the field of view tighter on a monitor though? 75 degrees vs the 90-100 you get in the rift.

 

You're probably right though and it's just my brain isn't piecing the image together as much. Especially because I'm using 1.0 supersampling in DCS 1.5 to increase the performance (will increase this).

 

Thanks guys, just wanted to check that other people are finding dogfighting practical before I go mad chasing after a speck ;-)

 

Edit: Maybe it's also that I used zoom a lot before VR and haven't used it at all since. I'll give this a try.

[metzger]

Well yes but in order to check your six with TRACKIR you turn your head 10 degrees(which is sort of cheating toghether with zoom) With VR you have to rotate with your body and head keeping the controls and flying the same time and just when you would be able to see your six the rift limits your vision(which can be the same wearing helmets/glasses real ww2 pilots do) and this extra efford needed gives me neck pain after 20-30 minutes dogfighting :)

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Astronut]

With VR we are experiencing some of the problems real pilots would have to deal with when it comes to maintaining SA.

[Gladman]

I personally don't find it harder or hard to see in VR. To be frank, I think its easier because I'm more aware of where I am and what the aircraft is doing based on where I'm looking.

 

Labels do help with spotting, especially with the rift update for AWS (or whatever its called) causing more blurring than before. Theres a .lua out there that takes away the big names and just puts a period or whatever in place. Its a lot less like cheating and a lot more like reality in my opinion. I fly both with and without labels. If I just wanna have fun, labels on (the period thing) and if I want to test my fate, labels off.

[average_pilot]

Hm.. I don't think number of pixels are different in vr or monitor. Vr is no different than montor you just looks at it very close. If the bandit is rendered on 2 pixels in a monitor it will be the same on the vr screen with the same res but you will see those 2 pixels larger. The sde is messing the visibility for VR.

I have some expirience with the dora against avarage p51 ai and most of the time I kill him. The problems for me were more like checking my six due to the limited fov and the fact that the AI flyes very clean while I overpull sometimes or mess the rudder inputs but this is another topic.

It's a problem of pixels per degree, which is way lower on the Rift and the Vive than in any monitor. When a bandit is rendered on 2 pixels in a monitor that's because the superior resolution in pixels per degree on the monitor allows to render it like that at a distance where in VR it would be virtually zero pixels. When the bandit is close enough to be 50 pixels wide in a monitor in VR it would be like 5 pixels.

[metzger]

Yeah that makes sens

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Goblin]

It's a problem of pixels per degree

 

True.

The average monitor show maybe 45-60 degee field of view, whereas VR show 100-110.

Using a monitor is like looking through a scope, compared to VR.

 

When I was using a 34" 21:9 Ultra wide curved screen I had close to the horizontal FoV of the Oculus Rift. But the vertical FoV was nowhere near that of the Rift.

[Haukka81]

Any monitor can show 100 degrees if you want but it wont look good, just zoom out fov in dcs :P

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Johnny Dioxin]

We've been doing okay in the F-15C. We are not very experienced at air to air at all, but we are doing fine on my own missions and on dogfight servers like BASIS, without labels.

 

I personally have medium enlargement set and I can spot another fighter at some distance if he is flying across my view or diagonally. Don't know about head-on and from the rear I usually just follow the smoke or contrails.

 

The problem is recognising exactly which type of plane, or side they are on!

[Knock-Knock]

Just replied this in the Burning Skies thread.

 

Regarding labels or no labels.

Im a VR driver, and I just did a few tests using the BF109 Instant Action free flight, with this and that pixel density and AA amount.

Anyway, spotting targets at a distance, even against the mountains, wasnt much of an issue - the lower the pixel density, the easier it was to spot. At 2.0 it became hard to spot), and I could follow the target in for quite some time. Wasnt until I was within 2 km, maybe even 1½km, and it would completely disappear - zoom or no zoom. Maybe at around 0.7-1 km or so, it would reappear. Hard to put exact distances on. And I remember this from when flying without VR too. Even without AA and 1.0 PD, the target would just pop out of existence.

 

So for me, the problem is that dead spot at fairly close distance, and not targets at a great distance.

 

Edit: Forgot to add. In one of the tests, I was using 1.0 PD and no AA, and I reached a AI plane, when it was on final and had turned on the nav lights. This caused a shimmering between dark/bright pixels, and was really help full. That shimmering, now that is something Id like to see added.

 

Pixel density has a huge impact on the ability to spot targets, especially at distance. With 2.0 (AA or no AA didnt matter much, but if you add 16Q on top, its surely not easier), it smears the 'dot' too much, and its super hard to spot. 1.0 PD and no AA, surely the best for spotting targets at far and medium distances. But boy is that a noisy spectacle.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Knock-Knock

[SkateZilla]

2.0 Pixel Density Turns that 1 px Dot into a Dot that only Takes up 25% of a Pixel, in which case the Screen doesnt draw that pixel to the color of the aircraft, but the background as 75% of the px color is of the background.

 

Same problem w/ 4K users that overcrank the resolution using VSR etc etc.

[SinusoidDelta]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but I feel this is currently the biggest issue with DCS in VR. Everything else is dramatically better in VR. Without imposters it's possible to see the point where an aircraft suddenly vanishes, making BFM and rejoins much more difficult.

[average_pilot]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but I feel this is currently the biggest issue with DCS in VR. Everything else is dramatically better in VR. Without imposters it's possible to see the point where an aircraft suddenly vanishes, making BFM and rejoins much more difficult.

In a few years we'll laugh remembering current resolutions and the size of the thing.

[Verde]

I think it would be best if object far would be very dark so we could get contrast. In rift blue sky and grey dot far isnt good enough why not to make object far very very dark;)

[Haukka81]

I think it would be best if object far would be very dark so we could get contrast. In rift blue sky and grey dot far isnt good enough why not to make object far very very dark;)

 

 

 

This , i have been in sim's since 320x240 was awesome rez ... its not just low rez , its how you make game or sim for it.

 

Plain flanker 1.0 style graphics for me thanks.. and i mean it. :)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Verde]

Gladman did say reasonable things about using label mod where planes are shown as single dot aka - "." In MOD default value in the mod is 15000m, what do you think guys what value would be more close to reality? I tried su27 quickstart interveption mission and tried values 50000, I think it's pretty close to default non VR sight. Or thats overkill? What do you think? Here is default MOD https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

[metzger]

Gladman did say reasonable things about using label mod where planes are shown as single dot aka - "." In MOD default value in the mod is 15000m, what do you think guys what value would be more close to reality? I tried su27 quickstart interveption mission and tried values 50000, I think it's pretty close to default non VR sight. Or thats overkill? What do you think? Here is default MOD https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

It is fine as long as you fly SP. But A2A with bots sux and you won't find any servers with labels enabled.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Verde]

But without those in vr you will never meet sabre in your mig in MP:(

[Gladman]

It is fine as long as you fly SP. But A2A with bots sux and you won't find any servers with labels enabled.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

Keep in mind that not all of us fly MP as you do. There are those of us that fly as squadrons to complete missions that may or may not include AI A2A threats. You see, for a lot of us DCS is about co-operative play and for those purposes labels work just fine in VR for MP sessions. To be honest I have been flying with DCS squadrons for a number of years now and have been on servers that are everyone for themselves or random people on either side only a handful of times. All my other rather extensive time has been spent on private MP servers working as a group to achieve goals and I've loved every minute of it.

[metzger]

Keep in mind that not all of us fly MP as you do. There are those of us that fly as squadrons to complete missions that may or may not include AI A2A threats. You see, for a lot of us DCS is about co-operative play and for those purposes labels work just fine in VR for MP sessions. To be honest I have been flying with DCS squadrons for a number of years now and have been on servers that are everyone for themselves or random people on either side only a handful of times. All my other rather extensive time has been spent on private MP servers working as a group to achieve goals and I've loved every minute of it.

It is always good to fly formation against another human formation and execute many to many tactics :).Going for MP coop is great fun but different expirience. For A2A I find the AI good only for practice missile evasion, detection and missile ranges etc..

 

I was referring for people who like pvp missions.

So yes against AI or private servers labels work.

But if OP intensions are to do pvp battles it is not easy to find server or even dcs squadrons which use labels.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Gladman]

Labels are rarely used that is for sure. Until the implementation of ASW it wasn't necessary. For A2G it still is not needed although it is more challenging but wil A2A its at a point right now that yes it can be done but you do loose the fun portion given the struggle.

 

I would not be surprised if more and more squads are using labels for AA combat at this point. Once ASW and DCS co-exist on a cooperative plain, it will revert. I personally hadn't flown with labels on for several years.

[Enduro14]

What exactly is ASW doing that makes it hard to see tgt?