Right Wing Dip On Landing . . . . help please!

[Davee]

Hi Guys,

I continually make good touchdowns under 100 mph with very little or no bounce - they are usually 3 pt. landings. However, after rolling for about 5 seconds, the right wing suddenly dips and bites into the turf initiating a ground loop.

 

Throttle is off, pitch is fine, brakes are not applied and the stick and rudder are neutral.

 

There is no drift left or right after touchdown and it goes straight except - yup, right wing suddenly dips.

 

Any suggestions please - with much thanks.

 

Cheers,

Cats . . . .

Edited December 20, 2016 by Catseye

[Little_D]

Hi Cats,

 

nice to see you here :pilotfly: . Sorry but this is spit, you know :helpsmilie::music_whistling:-

 

regards

 

Little_D

[razo+r]

Make sure that you land on both wheels at the same time and not to drift right or left

 

Landing on one wheel first was the major issue for me...

 

Try to hold a straight line, and if you have trouble finding a straight line, look backwards and try to align the tail with one of the lines on the ground

[Davee]

Hi Cats,

 

nice to see you here :pilotfly: . Sorry but this is spit, you know :helpsmilie::music_whistling:-

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

Ha Little_D,

And this from a 109 driver? :)

 

Nice to see you here also . . . been a while from COD.

Cheers,

Cats . . .

[cromhunt]

Which is the moment you cut the throttle?

Before touching or after touching ground?

[ricktoberfest]

From what I saw in another thread 100 might be too fast

 

 

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[razo+r]

yeah, 90 is for me upper limit, ussualy my touch down is at about 70-80mph

[Hub]

I am having same issue. .. I watched replay. And have Attempted around 35 landings. All but 2 have resulted in the right wing dipping and hitting the ground.

On the replay, I make a perfect 3 PT landing at 85 mph. And after a few seconds with both wheels rolling fine the wing suddenly drops and scrapes ?!! I touched down with both wheels at same time, and rolled smooth ,, then. Sudden wing drop occurs .

 

 

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[Wags]

Touch down between 60 and 70 mph on three points.

 

Dance on rudders during roll out until rudder loses affect, then use GENTLE braking.

[Hub]

Must be too fast then. I feel

Like it's gonna stall out any slower. But will give it another go...

 

 

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[ricktoberfest]

Must be too fast then. I feel

Like it's gonna stall out any slower. But will give it another go...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

It makes sense that if you land too fast it takes until you slow down for the weight to be all the way on the wheels. Is the wings dropping right as you slow past stall speed? That might be an indication. Most planes are meant to be landed just a few knots above stall speed.

 

-or it could be a bug as it's a new module

 

 

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[Chief Instructor]

It's important to remember that during your deceleration after touching down, the aerodynamic damping effect of the control surfaces is constantly diminishing with diminishing airspeed. However, all of the non-power related factors which cause swing are still present and will start to grab the aircraft again as you slow down.

 

This is a common "gotcha" for many tail-dragger pilots, as they tend to be more concerned about the touchdown phase, then relax too much once they're on the roll out.

 

The roll out phase is just as hazardous as the take-off acceleration phase, so as Wags says, dance on the pedals to keep straight.

 

Never forget - when you're handling a tail-dragger, it ain't over till it's back in the hangar! :thumbup:

[coldViPer]

Hi Guys,

I continually make good touchdowns under 100 mph with very little or no bounce - they are usually 3 pt. landings. However, after rolling for about 5 seconds, the right wing suddenly dips and bites into the turf initiating a ground loop.

 

Yeah I had the same issue but figured out that after a good touchdown it is absolutely important to keep the bird straight line with rudder and brakes (yeah had to be very careful to not pressing too long brake button, usually one quick tap is enough). And I don't use brakes right away after touchdown, only rudder. At some point you have to use brakes also.

[Hub]

This module is awesome. I must have been slightly above the right speed ,, this time touched down around 70mph and used rudders and brakes. And finally had a smoooooth landing!! Thanks for the input and help.

Now my question is, in WWII how prevalent was this? Or were pilots instructed to make sure they were below 85mph. I am gonna go hunt YouTube for some modern day spit landings .

THis thing is too much fun

 

 

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[Davee]

Which is the moment you cut the throttle?

Before touching or after touching ground?

 

Before and let it settle in.

[Davee]

I am having same issue. .. I watched replay. And have Attempted around 35 landings. All but 2 have resulted in the right wing dipping and hitting the ground.

On the replay, I make a perfect 3 PT landing at 85 mph. And after a few seconds with both wheels rolling fine the wing suddenly drops and scrapes ?!! I touched down with both wheels at same time, and rolled smooth ,, then. Sudden wing drop occurs .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Whew - sorry to learn of your issue but thankful that I'm not the only one. :)

 

ps. I made a mission and ensured that there was NO wind to test this with the same results.

[Davee]

Touch down between 60 and 70 mph on three points.

 

Dance on rudders during roll out until rudder loses affect, then use GENTLE braking.

 

Thanks WAGS. With the old steam guages it is hard to determine the 60/70 mph so was settling level at 100 until stable then cutting throttle several feet above ground.

 

This is an amazing bird if it will still fly at those lower speeds but I will give it a good go and convince myself that I won't dent the tarmac at the threshold.

 

ps. Following your take-off demo, I can get it to fly off the runway just as you have demonstrated.

 

Question: after you lifted off, I gather you trimmed fast to slightly nose up during the climb-out?

 

Thanks,

Cats . . .

Edited December 20, 2016 by Catseye

[Davee]

-or it could be a bug as it's a new module

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Aye, that is the rub to quote the Bard.

 

However, many in the community are successful . . . . . :)

[Davee]

It's important to remember that during your deceleration after touching down, the aerodynamic damping effect of the control surfaces is constantly diminishing with diminishing airspeed. However, all of the non-power related factors which cause swing are still present and will start to grab the aircraft again as you slow down.

 

This is a common "gotcha" for many tail-dragger pilots, as they tend to be more concerned about the touchdown phase, then relax too much once they're on the roll out.

 

The roll out phase is just as hazardous as the take-off acceleration phase, so as Wags says, dance on the pedals to keep straight.

 

Never forget - when you're handling a tail-dragger, it ain't over till it's back in the hangar! :thumbup:

 

Hmmm, reminds me of the law of diminishing returns at a specific point. Would you encourage some right rudder or left aeleron input at the point of wheels touching? In this case.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Catseye

[REDEYE_CVW-66]

I shyed away from the brakes in landings, but after I started using them (gently, like Wags said), I am starting to rack up nice and clean landings. Did some formation flying with friends today... Best module I ever flew.

[Hub]

I was using too much elevator trim up on approach , made my final flare not as clean as it should be .. starting to get it

 

 

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[Davee]

Finally!!

 

After umpteen trys with various settings I finally did it.

 

Tweaked the stick settings a bit until the response felt good for me.

 

In the landing training mission I approached the runway with pitch set to 2650, throttle approx 0 boost, passed down the center of the runway at 220 mph at 200 ft and effected a military landing breaking to the left and climbing a bit to 300 ft.

 

Trimmed the aircraft while maintaining 180 mph on the downwind and left base to final speed reducing to 120 mph at the threshold and continuing to reduce while I maintained "gentle" control on pitch a couple of feet off the runway. Throttle was pretty well off by this time but gently shut the throttle completely and kissed the runway with NO BOUNCE. Checking the replay after I saw that my speed had reduced to just below 100 mph and wheels down was at 85-90 mph. Let her roll out with very little rudder needed.

 

Even if I may have not done it according to the book, it was beautiful to watch.

 

The goddess Fortuna being fickle in nature I'm sure will want some further sacrifice until she grants me another such landing.

 

Anyway . . . . thank you all very, very much for the feedback. It helped me tremendously! Very happy knowing that it is possible.

 

Cats . . .

 

ps. I think my issues before were crossing the threshold too slow and too high and when pulling back a bit on the stick it started to flare and approaching stall dropped a couple of feet too much. I had little to no control. Crossing the threshold at 120 allowed me to maintain control while tweaking her as the speed further reduced and finally gently settled down.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Catseye

[Davee]

I was using too much elevator trim up on approach , made my final flare not as clean as it should be .. starting to get it

 

 

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Great to hear Hub.

I also had a tendency for too much up trim so I trimmed it best I could on the downwind for level flight.

[Hub]

Nice. I wouldn't think it would be so hard. Watched a video online. Of a spitfire GO PRO landing. Airspeed at touch down looked to be around 70mph.

 

 

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[Davee]

Nice. I wouldn't think it would be so hard. Watched a video online. Of a spitfire GO PRO landing. Airspeed at touch down looked to be around 70mph.

 

 

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I agree. It's possible that - as I understand it from pilot info from time to time - that it is harder on the computer than doing it actually. 2 dimension, feel etc. etc.

 

One can only hope. :)

 

Cheers

Edited December 21, 2016 by Catseye