Ryzen price politics

[Hiromachi]

It's not exactly the perfect description. It's technically a single chip or one piece of silicon with two modules whereas dual cpu would imply two separate pieces of silicon. But yes, its not exactly like Intel models.

That of course creates some issues like mentioned in above link.

[SkateZilla]

^ to technically unknown, you'd assume that would be a huge issue (sorta like how AMD's 15h Modules on the FX Series was assume to be a problem, when it was more shared resources and slow cache, among other things).

 

The Intel Chips are Designed in Blocks as well. (iirc Intel Core Series is in Blocks of 2),

Every x86 O/S and Application knows how to use them correctly since they are all compiled using Intel's x86 Compiler.

 

The "CCX Problem" isnt a Problem w/ the Chip Design, it's a Problem with the O/S and Applications not knowing how to utilize the design.

 

Which can be fixed w/ proper O/S Scheduling, and Application Thread Management.

 

The Issue w/ Ryzen Right now is:

-Windows 10 Scheduler Needs a update to use AMD SMT and Manage Threads Correctly

(To that Point, so Do Games.)

-Windows 10 Needs a Updated Driver to Set Power Profile Correctly

-Motherboard BIOS' need updates to fix several Memory and PCIe Clk Issues

 

 

Windows 7 Isnt Supported by Ryzen Consumer CPUs,

And people benching on Windows 7 are using a Modified Driver.

 

 

The Odd part is, over the last 3 years, my FX8350 has Gained FPS in Benchmarks due to O/S Patches and Driver Updates.

 

 

I'm Happy/OK with What I have, as I'm not in desperate Need to upgrade / build a new system yet, but I will later this year,

I've already had access to Ryzen 7 CPUs, and Have already sent my observations/notes to the group I overclock and review for, their writers have already published their article.

 

However Testbench/review Builds are separate from in home/personal builds.

 

My reasons to Upgrade would be:

-Nearly 2.4x the Performance with Half the TDP (going By BenchMark Score vs Power Consumption Charts, the Ryzen 1800x Doubles my Scores while using half the Power)

-Newer Instruction Sets

-Future Support

-DDR4

-PCIe 3.0

-NVMe

-M.2

-USB 3.1 Type C/Type A

 

None of which are supported by the AM3+ Platform

Edited March 9, 2017 by SkateZilla

[Hiromachi]

I'd not call the last one odd :) I'd say that market has somewhat adapted to it, even though the cpu was on a lost position from the day one. Ryzen is in much better situation and it hits market when more than four cores finally matter.

 

I'd also say that by releasing so many multi core designs AMD basically wants to "force" market to take advantage more of them, as companies will have to take a notice of that when their consumers will use them in numbers.

 

I'm looking forward to the delivery of my 1700. And most likely I'll swap it next year for Zen 2 which should carry some significant improvements, particularly based on experiences and reviews of current generation.

[SkateZilla]

Linux was Patched on Day 1 to adjust for Ryzen,

 

Windows has yet to follow, the Scheduler needs to be patched, so it doesnt take a Benchmark off Thread 3 and slam it on thread 7, or have a Application using 2 threads using threads 2 and 6.

 

Locking an Application to Threads 0-3 or 4-7 in the Task Manager Affinity would stop Windows 10 from jumping them around.

[Hadwell]

 

 

the issue is, Ryzen Competes in 4K Gaming, and Everything else.

 

ryzen competes in 4K gaming and everything else in the same sense that a 4770K does... that it's not the best, not even close to the best, but still useable, not bad, pretty good for the price even, but not even close to the best, especially if you ignore price...

 

until there's a videocard that can peg the fastest CPU out there at 4K, no cpu competes at 4K gaming, the videocard has to be fast enough to make the cpu the slower part first, then 4K gaming can have cpu competitions...

 

in other words, the videocard has to be waiting on the cpu... right now it's the cpu waiting on the videocard, so even an i3 running 4K can get nearly the same score as an i7 at 4K... heck even an old AMD FX chip gets nearly the same scores at 4K...

 

in other words, untill there's a GPU out there that 4K acts like 1080p does on these CPUs, it's a GPU competition at 4K, and CPUs play no part in any 4K competitions...

Edited March 10, 2017 by Hadwell

[Hiromachi]

Not quite. I've been reading thorough yesterdays 1080Ti reviews in which many decided to use more than one platform to test, like here: http://www.eteknix.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-ti-cpu-showdown-i7-7700k-vs-ryzen-r7-1800x-vs-i7-5820k/

 

For the most part the maximum and average frames are not noticeably different and its gpu that limits. But check the minimum frames - thats where Ryzen is different and I think its quite important not to drop below certain range.

[BitMaster]

MS tweeted the existence of a scheduler issue in Win10 affecting Ryzen's performance.

[Nash]

Guys... Is it possible to run a Polaris and a Vega GPU together in Crossfire on the current X370 MoBos yet or when Vega launches ?

I remember reading it somewhere that AMD was going to provide this functionality...

Edited March 10, 2017 by Nash

[Hiromachi]

Considering VEGA seems to be coming in a matter of weeks : https://videocardz.com/67242/amd-vega-with-64-compute-units-spotted

That is fairly interesting question you've asked.

 

On the other hand Nash, how is the performance in DCS on Ryzen ?

[*Rage*]

Not quite. I've been reading thorough yesterdays 1080Ti reviews in which many decided to use more than one platform to test, like here: http://www.eteknix.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-ti-cpu-showdown-i7-7700k-vs-ryzen-r7-1800x-vs-i7-5820k/

 

For the most part the maximum and average frames are not noticeably different and its gpu that limits. But check the minimum frames - thats where Ryzen is different and I think its quite important not to drop below certain range.

 

I find that review interesting as it shows the 1800x beating out the 7700k. What explains the discrepancy with other reviews?

[SkateZilla]

this review wasnt done w/ 1080p low presets, they pushed the resolutions and presets higher.

[Nash]

Considering VEGA seems to be coming in a matter of weeks : https://videocardz.com/67242/amd-vega-with-64-compute-units-spotted

That is fairly interesting question you've asked.

 

On the other hand Nash, how is the performance in DCS on Ryzen ?

 

Hi Hiromachi,

I haven't got the Ryzen yet... It is more expensive to buy than the 7700K here in India to justify any kind of cost benefit ratio...

I will be sticking with Intel for the time being and jump to Ryzen when it is better than Intel in gaming benchmarks...

 

But I would definitely like to know if it is possible to run a Polaris and a Vega GPU together in Crossfire on the current X370 MoBos yet or when Vega launches ?

[Pilotasso]

3600Mhz RAM closes the gap between R7 and 7700K for gaming. We should see Ryzen break the threshold at 4GhZ RAM, and with a full Ghz CPU clock disadvantage, This is remarkable.

 

RZS2XHcQdqA

[BitMaster]

3600Mhz RAM closes the gap between R7 and 7700K for gaming. We should see Ryzen break the threshold at 4GhZ RAM, and with a full Ghz CPU clock disadvantage, This is remarkable.

 

RZS2XHcQdqA

 

 

Show me any benchmark that is not utilizing all cores and I will match it or surpass it.

 

Not that I am showing off or such, but I highly doubt you can close the 1GHz gap present.

 

Actually, gaming works fine till 5.2 GHz @ 3866MHz, you better clock that AMD skyhigh.

 

 

Gimme numbers and I will see how much mine does in comparison.

[BitMaster]

OK, I watched the vid, seems like their is "for our all sake" a lot of truth in what you stated, I have to row back somehow LoL

 

Still, he's saying the 7700k doesnt scale from 3200 to 3600...well, mine does at least in Benchmarks. I wonder why ghe didnt put the 3600er in the 7700k as well, just to exclude others complaining about it.

 

Also, getting the Ryzen above 2933 isnt simple, it was damn hard on mine while keepiing the OC at 5G and I guess it is not easier with the AMD as well.

 

 

Anyway, I am happy my first impression was wrong ! That must be said.

 

 

Isnt the 1700x more expensive than the 7700k ?? They should also compare the 1700 w/o X which is closer to the Intel price for 7700k.

[gavagai]

This news made up my mind on the Ryzen 5.

 

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ryzen-5-cores-are-disabled-in-symmetrical-pairs_192827

 

I would like to meet the person who made this decision for AMD. Intel should hire him as their next spokesperson.:doh:

[cichlidfan]

As usual, AMD is their own worst enemy.

[SkateZilla]

One of the gaming bottlenecks is the memory profiles, reviewers and day 1 owners are being forced to run their ram well below rated speeds u til the bios' are updated.

 

the Infinity fabric bandwidth scales with the ram profile.

 

faster ram profile alone means more performance, but it will also increase the infinity fabric bandwidth making instructions flow more smoothly from CCX to CCX.

 

 

Also the last few days FX prices have gone up

[Pilotasso]

they could have made 4:0 and 4:2 for their 4 and 6 cores but prices would go up as silicon flaws occur more often in both CCX's rather than just one of them.

[BitMaster]

It's sad that this wasn't announced early on by AMD, they must have known this correlation on Day ONE.

 

All those early adopters that went unknowingly with 2133MHz modules are now kinda screwed !

[Hiromachi]

No they could not make six core variant a 4+2, its design thing, cores must run in pairs. You cant disable half of one CCX and leave the other fully running. When it comes to 4+0 though I am not sure, that would be most reasonable but then again, there must be something that made them choose 2+2 and not 4+0.

 

Here is another "simulated" test:

 

There wont be any noticeable differences it seems.

[Pilotasso]

It's sad that this wasn't announced early on by AMD, they must have known this correlation on Day ONE.

 

All those early adopters that went unknowingly with 2133MHz modules are now kinda screwed !

 

Those modules are dirt cheap and they can upgrade in a few months after BIOS fixes anyway.

[Hiromachi]

DDR4 is no longer dirt cheap, in my country a decent set of 3000+ mhz low CL RAM costs as much as high end motherboards. But often its possible to overclock those low clock modules to a reasonable levels. My 2666 easily went to 3200 with low CL.

[BitMaster]

I paid 360,-€ for my 32GB 3600, I dont call this dirt cheap. That is exactly same as I paid for the 7700k !

 

and the prices are still climbing...

 

I bought 32GB XMP3200 6 weeks before...280,-€, now those exact same Corsair Vengeance modules are 340€ !!

Edited March 27, 2017 by BitMaster

[Pilotasso]

did not say 3600 MHZ mems were cheap, I mentioned the 2133Mhz ones. Not much of a loss to discard them.