Ryzen price politics

[Nash]

Damn...

They Ryzen 7 1700X and Ryzen 7 1700 prices in India are higher than the i7-6700k and 7700-k...

I was hoping it would be lesser or at least on par with Intel prices...

[Pilotasso]

It's because pre-order costs more, wait a few weeks to stabilize once you find them on the shelves

[Nash]

It's because pre-order costs more, wait a few weeks to stabilize once you find them on the shelves

Nope... No Pre-ordering available in India...

They are the retail prices from 2nd March onwards

[Krippz]

Ordered the R7 1700X. Been waiting for Team Red to make a comeback.

[Nash]

Ordered the R7 1700X. Been waiting for Team Red to make a comeback.

 

Which MoBo you planning with it?

Edited February 24, 2017 by Nash

[SkateZilla]

I'm really interested in the 5 series with 6 cores and 12 threads to see how they compare against the Intel I5-7600k and even the I7-7700k.

 

 

Ok now just read that the 5 series is planned to be released later in Q2 as late as June.

 

However the Ryzen 7 1700 looks interesting for such a low TDP part. Tweaktown has reported that a OCUK member has overclocked on the Asus Crosshair VI board to over 4Ghz on all 8 physical cores fully stable. That is pretty darn impressive. One other interesting thing to note is that the overclocks were far more successful on this and one other board. Very early days I guess. I'm sure all will be revealed when the NDA is lifted 3rd March and there is a torrent of reviews online. Guess I will have to lock myself away for a week to digest all the findings before determining weather to wait for the 5 series with 6 cores (12 threads) or going the full hog 8 core (16 thread experience).

 

The VRM Array on that board is hands down better than the others, thats why.

[Konovalov]

The VRM Array on that board is hands down better than the others, thats why.

 

 

 

Ok thanks SkateZilla. Interesting that with this board they did away with any display ports and instead it has another 4 USB3 ports. In total it has 14 USB ports on the rear I/O panel! It only has a single M.2 slot on the bottom of the board however. Before reviews come out this one is currently top of my list from a feature and aesthetics viewpoint.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SkateZilla]

DisplayPORTs would only be used if there was embedded Display Engine in the Chipset or CPU.

[Hadwell]

Ok thanks SkateZilla. Interesting that with this board they did away with any display ports and instead it has another 4 USB3 ports. In total it has 14 USB ports on the rear I/O panel! It only has a single M.2 slot on the bottom of the board however. Before reviews come out this one is currently top of my list from a feature and aesthetics viewpoint.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

it only has one M.2 slot because the ryzen CPUs only have 24 pci-e lanes, also they don't have built-in graphics like the intel chips do, so not much reason to have a hdmi/displayport connector...

 

socket 1151 has 20 pcie lanes...

 

Really if you want a lot of I/O you'll wanna get a socket 2011 CPU, they have up to 40 pcie lanes...

 

it looks like you might be confused as to what the VRM is... it's basically the powersupply for the CPU, it makes sure the CPU is getting a constant extremely clean power source, so the better the VRM, generally the more stable your cpu is.

[SkateZilla]

Larger, Better Components in the VRM allow Better Overclocking.

 

Cheaper And Smaller VRM Array's will overheat and blow out easily when overclocking.

 

 

 

As for M.2

 

The ASUS and ASRock Boards both have a M.2 PCIe3 and M.2 PCIe2 Slot.

[sobek]

Can anybody point me at performance per Watt comparisons between Ryzen and Intel chips?

[GeorgeLKMT]

Can anybody point me at performance per Watt comparisons between Ryzen and Intel chips?

 

NDA falls in 3 days, then we'll find it on every major hardware site.

[sobek]

NDA falls in 3 days, then we'll find it on every major hardware site.

 

I see, thanks.

[SkateZilla]

Ryzen is 10% smaller than intel's chips.

[gavagai]

I see the 8-core is up for preorder on newegg.

 

$330 for the 1700, and $400 for the 1700x.

 

I still do not understand why AMD is pushing these 8 core CPUs so hard when the benefit for most users ends at 4 cores.

[BitMaster]

HUGE price drop on many Intel i7 CPU's happening across the globe :P

 

AMD Go Go Go !

 

For example: 7700k no goes for 299;- 5820k-6c goes for ~319

 

The top end CPU's tho remain at an utopic price...FOR NOW hehe

[Tailhook]

I still do not understand why AMD is pushing these 8 core CPUs so hard when the benefit for most users ends at 4 cores.

 

Because AMD knows best.

 

6-8 cores is the future for multi-tasking and rendering. More is simply better and the majority of the market isn't people who 'just' game. Think about the market as a whole. The production industry in general always needs more computing power and the more cores gets the job done faster. Physics based rendering benchmarks of Intel 6-8 cores crush the benchmarks of any Intel 4-core. Quad cores are great for just dedicated gaming. Higher frequency, less power usage, less heat, but less strength. The moment you want to factor in more processes while gaming, you can expect performance degradation. Biggest performance hit nowadays is streaming which is still a growing hobby and a new market target as of 2013. HD (720+ high bitrate/medium encoding) streaming is a very stressful load in and of itself which really tanks quad cores and below. Most top streamers you see on Twitch now are running either a 6 or 8 core processor setup, or they are feeding video to a separate system dedicated to just rendering tasks.

[Tailhook]

The top end CPU's tho remain at an utopic price...FOR NOW hehe

 

Why the flagship extreme edition CPU of my socket (4960X) is $2,810 on Newegg currently is absolutely flipping beyond me...

 

As much as we all expect Intel to drop prices, I feel they might just keep the pricing of enthusiast processors as-is just for greed.

[gavagai]

Because AMD knows best.

 

6-8 cores is the future for multi-tasking and rendering. More is simply better and the majority of the market isn't people who 'just' game. Think about the market as a whole. The production industry in general always needs more computing power and the more cores gets the job done faster.

 

I agree with that. Are those users the same as the early adopters though? I probably phrased my question poorly. For the sake of market share I would have expected the 6 and 4 core versions to be available sooner.

[BeastyBaiter]

Something had to be first, they chose top end. It makes a lot sense tbh, AMD really needs to be the undisputed performance king for a bit just to get people to notice them. Targeting the very top with aggressive pricing certainly draws attention. Another reason is early adopters. They may only want a quad core, but will buy the 8 core simply because it's first. Thus more money for AMD.

[Hadwell]

Something had to be first, they chose top end. It makes a lot sense tbh, AMD really needs to be the undisputed performance king for a bit just to get people to notice them. Targeting the very top with aggressive pricing certainly draws attention. Another reason is early adopters. They may only want a quad core, but will buy the 8 core simply because it's first. Thus more money for AMD.

 

AMD going top end depends on overclocking headroom, being able to beat a 7700K at stock speeds means nothing, as it pretty easily hits 4.9GHz and stays stable, even with super high end ram...

 

Where i see the ryzen cpus being useful is for the mainstream gamer that likes to stream to youtube or twitch while they play their not DCS games... DCS is mostly single-threaded, so if money isn't an issue best wait for the 7740K and see what that clocks to...

 

and this is a DCS forum, so everything I'd talk about is first and foremost with DCS context...

[BitMaster]

AMD going top end depends on overclocking headroom, being able to beat a 7700K at stock speeds means nothing, as it pretty easily hits 4.9GHz and stays stable, even with super high end ram...

 

Where i see the ryzen cpus being useful is for the mainstream gamer that likes to stream to youtube or twitch while they play their not DCS games... DCS is mostly single-threaded, so if money isn't an issue best wait for the 7740K and see what that clocks to...

 

and this is a DCS forum, so everything I'd talk about is first and foremost with DCS context...

 

Yep, that has not yet been proven.

 

I honestly hope AMD will get very close, meet or exceed Intel's IPC performance, which is great if you use all the new options that we have now, AVX Offset, CPU Temperature Control Offset, etc. .

 

The thing is, AMD also has a few tricks up the sleeve that make OC a lot more comfortable and easy to deploy for "different" workloads. That is the new hype when overclocking, and has to be.

 

With prime95 28.10_b1 and it's utmost brutal AVX usage you will very likely not have a 7700k that will take the load at 5GHz or even more without delidding. I have done it and pulled the chord, I mean I stopped the test. It didnt fail but ran into the 100°C and just everything went red but it didnt fail. That aside, who needs that ? Handbrake, the realworld usage for most users is the only thing right now you will get in touch with AVX code aside from stress testing and benchmark apps. Handbrake instead, uses FAR LESS watts when doing a 1h full stress test, it is not even close to what prime AVX eats away. Numbers I havent noted but where somewhere 90W vs 130W.

 

Even more gentle as it doesnt use AVX is older prime95 26.60b3 ( and not later as it then uses AVX ).

Mind you, that overclocker Guru "der 8auer" who sells his stuff with Case King and Overclocker.co.uk shop sells his signed rigs tetsed with version 26.6b3 and does NOT apply AVX stress loads beyond certain GHz values as Watts and Temps are beyond what the real world dies can deliver, you just wont get it to 5.2 with Full AVX and just water cooling. That is reserved for other cooling sub zero and not of real 24/7 use I guess.

 

Back to topic, AMD announced their OC Suite and more leaked what and how those Ryzen dies can be clocked. It seems that also them differentiate between low load, medium load, full load for 1 or few core, same with many-to-all cores.and then AVX loads. The chip will likely adjust with clocks and cores on/off ( that would be COOOOL as hell !! ) to compensate for the powerdraw and/or heat. Whatever has priority and applies. More cores cooler or less cores bit those faster ( cool for DCS and such ). Say it could drive 4 cores to 4.4 and 4 Off while keeping HT on, that would be a cool feature. Presets would be nice, GAMES, MULTIMEDIA, DESKTOP etc.

 

 

I have meanwhile myself compromised to an AVX offset of 2, so AVX is done at 4.8 to not stress the die too much until I finally delid it. I will do it as it has proven 5G worthy and stable, 3866 as well but not again with primeAVX, any other one but not that. Also RealBench got excluded, as it failed all the time for GPU driver reasons. It's of no use if it fails due to conflicts and issues.

 

It holds any game I played at 5.1 3866 but for stress testing stability I would have to delid it first I guess, but the benchmarks run till 5.2 and those numbers are agressiv, AMD Ryzen has to deliver a lot to get close to a 7700k at 5 or beyond.

 

At 5.0 a 7700k pushes like this:

CineBench R15 clocks in at around 1100 MP and 220 SC / 5.02 factor

UBM says its an UFO with 120%CPU and 128%RAM

GeekBench 4.0.4 6435-SC 20119-MP

Passmark IPC 2900

Aida64 memory 52GB/sec 59GB/sec 52GB/sec 42.6ns

 

And now, this is available for 299,-€ and boards will eventually drop in price too as Intel lowered the Chipset price for board makers as well.

 

With a 5G 7700k and fast RAM you are on-par or just a little below a 6-core 5820k at stock settings and 2133 RAM in about all MP-benchmarks and way faster in IPC. The gain in speed pays for 2 of those cores in MP. That much more it can push at 5G, it can substitute a full 2 stock clocked cores of an 5820k and the fast RAM almost reaches the speed of Quad Channel at 2133.

Looking at the 5820k, that comes almost as a bargain now. The boards are still too expensive but it usually clocks to 4.4 on water and that is with all 6 full bore AVX. As it has a superior IHS it takes the punch aka power fed into it. At 4.4GHz you can safely fire up DCS as well and enjoy it.

 

I personally think the 1700 without the X will be the choice for most PC's. the 1700X and 1800X will be for the high end priced rigs only. They sell for more than a 7700k then.

 

One can pull his hair soon when making decisions, that I can say. The prices are competitive by now, the performance seems plenty on both...make your pick :P

 

 

I forgot to add:

Asus ROG OC Guide for Kaby Lake states all 7700k hit 5G, just some 20% with AVX and the other 80% have to lower AVX to like 49 or 46 or such. That is a bold statement.

So the above values are somewhat general world values as well, not only mine.

Edited February 27, 2017 by BitMaster

[dburne]

I do hope the better competition from AMD at least makes prices better , along with larger leaps in technology for the cpu. Heck I am running an X-79 system with a 4820K at 4.5 GHz rock solid, and even today three years later from when I did this build, I don't see anything that would give me a big enough gain to justify the expense of a new system build.

 

I used to run AMD , both CPU and GFX several years ago and was a big fan. However after Intel's Core 2 Duo offering I switched back to Intel and have been with them ever since. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Hopefully though when I do build my next system, maybe next year, I will benefit dollar wise from the better competition from AMD.

[SkateZilla]

AMD Targeting Performance Tier First is the correct route, They've been lacking in that department for over 6 years.

 

You win back the Performance Market, you win back gamers and Performance Enthusiasts,

 

You Force Intel to Cut their MSRPs of their Chips, which affects their overall revenue stream.

 

Performance AMD Chips is what every has wanted for the last 6 years the APUs and Low Teir Chips already performed OK for what they were, even the Intel Faithful, because they are tired of Paying $1200+ for chips.

 

Dr. Su needs to be up for Nobel Prize for saving AMD, they where in a free fall just 6 years ago.

[BitMaster]

If I had the pocketmoney now ( getting another Baby we just found out ) I would get an Ryzen and make me a nice HomeServer out of it, put it next to my TV in M-ITX format, add a nice GPU and enjoy some games and stuff on my TV, have it on 24/7 as a fileserver as well.

 

A true 24/7 runner that save your a%§ ( 24/7 Backup, NAS, etc.. )

 

That 1700 would be enough....darn !