A question about F-15 radar

[Frostie]

The list of MSIP II upgrades is lengthy and you won't find them on wikipedia, probably not really available on the web either.

 

According to some active pilots, the MSIP II upgraded radar (not specifically the -70s, but those too) working in its most degraded performance was as good as the best tuned-up pre-MSIP radars.

 

Even an older, smaller, noisier non-planar array F-4's radar could pick up a MiG-21 at 60nm, and report 55nm pickup look'down at the MiG lifted off - and that's not even a test of maximum detection distance - it's just the longest distance at which the HAVE DOUGHNUT tests started - and that info you can probably find on the web - the official HD report.

It seems they didn't get the v(1) upgrade until 2001 though.

 

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2001-04-02-U.S.-Air-Force-F-15-Eagles-Receiving-Boeing-APG-63-V-1-Radar-Upgrade

[GGTharos]

They were continuously getting upgrades. In '95 the overt differences between the two radars were the radar panel and the 63 didn't have a bunch of the ground mapping modes.

The APG-70 sets were also supposed to be replaced with APG-63v1s so make of that what you will.

 

One of the more interesting (to me) reliability issues came from trying to be environmentally friendly.

[Ironhand]

Here it is. But only 1 fighter sized target just entering 80 miles in this vid. I did track them till i could get a radar ID on it. That's why i know it where fighters.

 

 

Description:

 

Is this normal behavior?:

 

1. TWS solid track to Jammer when locked.

2. Long range detection of enemy aircraft past 80 miles.

 

In this video you only see 1 target coming from past 80 miles t angels 1. But i have seen groups of fighter targets that i can detect and track every move from 80 to 90 miles. Most of the ones i see are jamming. But sometimes i can even bug them from 80+ miles.

 

Is this normal? Why are some jammer targets always seen as Jammer stropes, but others are seen as solid tracks until you lock them? Is it normal i can detect fighter sized targets from over 80 miles in DCS?

The weird thing is that i can not do this in every mission. And this is recently.

That jamming behavior looks very much like what you see in the Flanker when you use a hard lock (STT) on the AI. Their jammer comes an instant after you lock them. Doesn't happen with a "TWS" lock, though.

[Chrinik]

[b

I think the MPCD was part of the basic C.

 

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f15_25.html

 

"A new multi-function display armament control panel was introduced."

 

Don´t know if I am interpreting this wrong.

 

The Eagle got the FDL starting in 1995. You're correct in that it wasn't part of MSIP II, however.

 

It is quite possible that F-15Es didn't get the FDL until 2001, but I have no info. Just for example, look at AIM-9X...Fielded on F-15Cs like ten years ago? Not yet fielded on USAF F-15Es, as far as I know.

All mentionings of "Fighter Data Link" refer to the MIDS variant for use in the F-15, and all fiscal reports start mentioning those around 2001.

And while operational status was granted, I read procurement did favor the Strike Eagle over the regular Eagle, and bugs in the system were worked out before they gave it to the Fighter Eagles, who were competent without the system for a while.

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2003/dod-peds/0604771D8Z.pdf

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2001/dot-e/airforce/01fdl.html

 

"The host platforms for the FDL are the ANG F-15A/B and USAF F-15C/D/E fighters. Initial Operational Test and Evaluation (IOT&E) was completed in FY00 and an Follow-On Test and Evaluation (FOT&E) was completed in FY01. The FDL was found to be operationally effective and suitable and it has been fielded to operational squadrons."

 

 

But yeah, I would concur that it is 2000ish...

Edited May 1, 2017 by Chrinik

[Chrinik]

Only a few F-15Cs got AN/APG-70s. It wasn't a fleet wide thing.

 

Yeah, the last couple got APG-70s, then they rolled out the much improved 63(v1) and put that into them. USAF got about 180 of them, 18 of the (v2) AESA variant, and unknown (v3)... I think that´s how it went...But didn´t they put the APG-63(v1) into the ones that had still 63s at a higher priority? Or have they replaced all of them by now.

I just mentioned it because it was the first one to have NCTR, was rolled out with the MSIP program first.

 

This would be much easier if we have the nice Block designations, or the russian "let´s change the letter whenever we change anything" systems, but unfortunately, McD/D didn´t roll that way, and whenever a decent update rolled around, most of the existing F-15Cs were just upgraded to that new standard, no matter when build.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Chrinik

[Sweep]

Alriiiiighty, re-read some documents of various dates. The MPCD was indeed an MSIP addition in the mid-80s. The -34-1 from 1981 supports that, as well (old pit layout, no MPCD section, etc.). As for the FDL, yeah, definitely think what I read was regarding when the program started. Program initiation in 1995, FOC in '01 or '02, sounds right doesn't it?

 

By the way, all the v2s are out at Kadena right now with the 44th FS. 18th Wing runs all v2s and v3s...Possibly with the exception of their D models. AFAIK the Ds aren't being upgraded as much as the Cs.

[twistking]

Hello guys,

i have some questions concerning the radar.

 

1. When i change the range of radar display (10, 20, 40 80, 160...), does it change the energy output of the radar, or does it just limit, wich return signals get processed, or does it nothing, but change the display?

(a.k.a. does it make sense to limit range to stay undetected for a longer time?)

 

2. when in TWS mode, is there a way to "zoom" in, or have the contacts spread out a bit? when engaging a flight of f.e. bombers+fighter escorts, it is nearly impossible to lock on / identify a single contact, because they are so close together and it is pure luck, to click the escort fighter.

 

3. when i designate multiple targets in TWS, it only switches to the next target, if previous was destroyed or lost. is there a way to switch to the second target by press of a button? with the aim-120 it should be possible to engage multiple targets at the same time, but without a button to switch contacts, it is not really practical to do so. am i missing something here?

 

4. when firing an aim-120, how long does it take for it to go active homing? i checked hud and radar, but did not see any timer, or symbology for when it would be safe to disengage the radar.

 

thanks for your help:)

[red_coreSix]

1. No, it's only the display range.

 

2. Simple answer, in DCS, no. There are modes on the real APG-63 like raid assessment that help with that but those aren't simulated in the sim.

 

3. When you bugged multiple contacts in TWS it will auto switch to the next one when you've launched an AMRAAM. Other than that there is no way, AFAIK, to cycle through designated TWS targets.

 

4. You get the post-launch timer in the bottom left of the HUD. IIRC, "T" is time to pitbull and "M" time to impact.

[JINX_1391]

thanks for your help:)

 

This will help:

 

http://www.mudspike.com/dcs-f-15c-combat-guide-for-beginners/

 

Not trying to blow you off - but above is a tremendous amount of knowledge. :thumbup:

[twistking]

thanks to both of you!

[Sryan]

Thanks for posting a link to my guide, Jinx! :)

 

On top of what already has been said.

 

1: Contacts detected by your radar, but outside the current display range will actually be drawn along the top of the display.

 

3: Once the AMRAAM has been fired from TWS, the jet should automaticly cycle to the next target, just like Redcore explained. If it's absolutely necessary to switch targets. You can use UNLOCK TWS TARGET (no default binding) to unlock specific targets until your most important threat becomes the primary. Note that when you drop tracks like this, AMRAAMs already being guided on targets you're unlocking will no longer receive datalink information.

 

In the lower left corner of the HUD, T denotes both the time to pitbull and impact. The lefthand number is the time to pitbull, the righthand number is the time to impact. M indicates the amount of time it would take for a missile to impact, if it were fired right now.

[twistking]

thx, sryan! just read through your guide. really well done!

 

everything one needs to know for the f-15 and also technical enough to give some general insight, which will probably help pilots prepare for the upcoming f-18 :)

Edited May 5, 2017 by twistking

[Subferro]

Piggybacking on this thread with a few questions of my own:

 

1. I understand the radar is roll stabilized so that as I bank the scan zone stays parallel to the horizon, but to what degree is that true? I saw that the Mig-29 for instance is stabilized to +/- 120°, but no info on the Eagle. Also, is there any pitch stability? I.e., are the altitude scan borders still accurate if I pitch up and down?

 

2. Does roll stability still apply in AACQ modes? Specifically VS mode, where it seems like it would be more useful if it were not roll stabilized and rather linked to my lift vector for acquisition in a dogfight

 

Thanks

[red_coreSix]

1. The F-15 radar is roll stabilized to 120° left/right IIRC, and pitch stabilized to 60° up/down.

 

2. No, in the AACQ modes the radar is not stabilized but follows the aircraft boresight.

[Chrinik]

2. Does roll stability still apply in AACQ modes? Specifically VS mode, where it seems like it would be more useful if it were not roll stabilized and rather linked to my lift vector for acquisition in a dogfight

 

Thanks

 

And because it seems more useful, this is exactly the way it works :thumbup:

 

In AACQ modes, the Radar follows fixed patterns, in VS (vertical scan) it literally just scans vertically along your lift vector, whichever direction you might be pointing it right now :smilewink:

[J34]

F15 radar distance

 

In manual you can increase rr distance with + and decrease with - Which minus? Can not find it.

[Joni]

the ones to the left of the Backspace key :)

[Svend_Dellepude]

but it doesn't necessarily say ''minus'' on the key, depends on language of keyboard.

[Joni]

Yeah, but it does not matter. The keys are those to the left of the backspace :)