Receiving TILS Reception

[Weegie]

I've been flying Sgt Cyanide's simple bad weather TILS mission into Senaki, I have tried both auto TILS selection and also setting the TILS for channel 12 (Senaki) and I do have the 11-20 selection switch in the right place.

 

I usually go to Nav on master selector on turning to the landing waypoint at around 1000m and about 20-25kms out.

 

I always see the radar screen indicating the airfield but quite often I don't get a TILS lock, or receive any HUD guidance.

 

Am I missing something or am I executing (or not executing) some procedure I need to get TILS to function reliably?

[razo+r]

You are in the wrong master mode, it's at the "Landing" on the right side, this "NAV" mode is the one you need

[Weegie]

Thanks for the reply, I should have been clearer

 

I have the master selector in Landing Mode, with the sub mode Nav selected, i.e. the first of the 2 available Landing modes

 

Sometimes I get a TILS lock but most often I do not, so it does work but it's intermittent

[Weegie]

[mafuasu]

Try to engange the Land/Nav mode more far away from L1.

The waypoint the HUD guide you for is the LB1 Waypoint wich ist 20km away from the Airfield on a circle depending on the side of the runway you are by activating the Land/Nav mode. Look in the manual at page 143. there and before is a good explaining for this.

 

When you want to engage the Land/Nav mode not so far away aprox 15-20km, then choose the LAND/PO and switch back to LAND/NAV and the TILS should working. Then you get waypoint LF1 wich is 10km away from runway treshold and ist also equal to the descent point.

 

Sorry for my bad english.

 

Mafu

[Weegie]

No apologies necessary mafuasu

 

Many thanks for the tip, I'll go back to the manual and check it then try to engage TILS earlier and see how I get on

 

Many thanks for the reply

[Ramsay]

I don't own the Viggen but it looks like "Altitude Hold" might inhibit TILS ? However it may also be that you are to far/high to pick up the TILS signal (which then disables Alt Hold ?).

 

3° Glide Slope = 50 m/km = 500 m @ 10 km = 1000 m @ 20 km

 

In your video, y̶o̶u̶ ̶p̶i̶c̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶T̶I̶L̶S̶ ̶s̶i̶g̶n̶a̶l̶ at 8 km at you were still at 900 m altitude and high above TILS beam

 

In Fishbreath's Video @ 45:00 he approach the glide slope @ 500 m.

 

Source: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3044070&postcount=4

 

 

Source: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3044172&postcount=5

 

Edit: Add Gudauta TILS approach runway picture.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Ramsay
Reviewed @1080p, the TILS lamp was still flashing at 8 km, but perhaps height was still a factor ?

[Rudel_chw]

Hi,

 

On my case I don't know why the HUD steering cues drift away on the latest part of the approach (the early approach to LB and then LF works OK) ... I have the TILS light on, but the vertical bar path drifts away from the runway

 

... If I really were in low vis conditions I would never find the runway, here is a typical screen capture of one of these approaches:

 

 

It look like it could be that my navigation has drifted, but this is a training mission where my plane starts on the air at 35 Km from the airport ... it shouldn't have drifted in so short a leg

 

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks

Edited March 30, 2017 by Rudel_chw

[spiddx]

Drift should not be of concern as soon as catch the TILS signal.

Did you select the channel for Vaziani or are you in Automatic mode? Maybe Automatic guides you to Lochini instead...?

[Rudel_chw]

Did you select the channel for Vaziani or are you in Automatic mode? Maybe Automatic guides you to Lochini instead...?

 

 

I was in automatic ... will check, and also will try a different airbase ... thanks for the suggestions :)

[JanTelefon]

Hi,

 

On my case I don't know why the HUD steering cues drift away on the latest part of the approach (the early approach to LB and then LF works OK) ... I have the TILS light on, but the vertical bar path drifts away from the runway

 

... If I really were in low vis conditions I would never find the runway, here is a typical screen capture of one of these approaches:

 

 

It look like it could be that my navigation has drifted, but this is a training mission where my plane starts on the air at 35 Km from the airport ... it shouldn't have drifted in so short a leg

 

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks

 

The TILS system doesn't guide you down the runway centerline, but rather in at a 3 degree angle from the runway centerline. Look at Ramsays post above where you can see that there's a difference between the guide beam and the centerline.

[Ramsay]

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks

 

The TILS system doesn't guide you down the runway centerline, but rather in at a 3 degree angle from the runway centerline.

 

Gudauta TILS approach from Fishbreath's Video @45:00, following the TILS guide beam to 900m before the runway threshold.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Ramsay
Spelling

[Rudel_chw]

Thanks for the input .. I tried other airbases and certainly are differences, some works like I expect it to, while others do not ... here is one where the TILS path guides me to the start of the runway (at Mineralnye airbase):

 

 

I made a small mission to try the approach to several different airbases, will attach it to this post in case anyone wants to try it :)

 

Regards.

AJS37 - Landing Training (by Rudel_chw).miz

Edited March 31, 2017 by Rudel_chw
Adding mission file

[Neon67]

small questions about TILS

 

 

Do I have to change any slave switch prior to landing ?

 

Is it me or the autothrottle is mostly trying to kill me ? Speed is a bit too low very close to stall speed ?

 

thanks

Edited April 5, 2017 by Neon67

[Weegie]

There was a thread on Autothrottle somewhere in here already and the consensus was YES!! It will kill or try to kill you unless performing a perfect by the book landing in VFR.

 

Personally (and I'm a crap pilot) I found the lag too long and it is reacting to the physical orientation of the aircraft. So it's always better for the pilot to control the throttle as he knows what he is about to do, or has done and can place move the throttle accordingly to account for it. The autothrottle has to wait to receive the input before reacting.

 

I do find it handy for loitering or holding aircraft speed when busy with other things eating doughnuts, drinking coffee etc:

 

Regarding the slave I'm still waiting to understand that, I think you place the HUD to SLAV but I'm not really sure what that does

[Neon67]

ah by the way I found out that in an ILS approach , whatever the aircraft, you are suppose to hold the minimum descent altitude (MDA/H) at 250 feet (75 meter). As long as you don't see visually the runway threashold, don't attempt to land. This info is yet not present in the IFR landing checklist in the manual

 

From my understanding, the TILS helps you for the approach, the final stage of landing is still up to the pilot to decide. If the visibility is too poor, you will have to go to alternate

 

 

Facility Lowest MDH

ILS (no glide path - LLZ) 250 ft

VOR 300 ft

VOR/DME 250 ft

NDB 300 ft

Edited April 6, 2017 by Neon67

[CoBlue]

ah by the way I found out that in an ILS approach , whatever the aircraft, you are suppose to hold the minimum descent altitude (MDA/H) at 250 feet (75 meter). As long as you don't see visually the runway threashold, don't attempt to land. This info is yet not present in the IFR landing checklist in the manual

From my understanding, the TILS helps you for the approach, the final stage of landing is still up to the pilot to decide. If the visibility is too poor, you will have to go to alternate

Facility Lowest MDH

ILS (no glide path - LLZ) 250 ft

VOR 300 ft

VOR/DME 250 ft

NDB 300 ft

Not quite right. What you are describing is an Non-Precision Approach not an ILS.

 

ILS=Precision Approach, uses DA/H (Decision Alt/Hight) minimums.

ILS CatI DA(H) 200'(60m), ILS CatII 100' (30 m), ILS CatIII >50'(15m).

Visual reference requirements for continuing- approach lights in sight.

RVR (Rwy Visual Range) is also important.

 

Non-Precision Approach, uses MDA/H (Minimum Descent Alt/Height).

 

For Viggen the minimums were 60m, in peace time AFAIK.

[Over_G]

Gents, I've got a question.

In my case after a glideslope interception TILS light goes out and the HUD/flight directors indication doesn't look accurate enough (even for this system, but this could be just my perception). Isn't TILS light supposed to stay on all the way down to the runway?

Edited August 25, 2019 by Over_G