starting engine procedure inconsistent M-2000C

[fitness88]

I've tried starting the engine several times by following the DCS training session as well as Chuck's guide and sometimes it starts but more times it doesn't.

I follow the training session to the letter however can someone please outline just the procedure that pertains to getting the engine running.

Is there a known issue about this?

 

 

Thank you.

Edited April 24, 2017 by fitness88

[jaguara5]

Ensure that the throttle lever is on the OFF position (full back), before

starting the engine. If it's not you have to press the red button next to the right of the throttle and then follow the normal procedure

[lemoen]

Ensure that the throttle lever is on the OFF position (full back), before

starting the engine. If it's not you have to press the red button next to the right of the throttle and then follow the normal procedure

 

Almost certainly this ^

[Conroy]

You can also ask for rearm - refuel when the start engine procedure is going on.

 

Don't forget also to push a bit the throttle soon after you have started the engine.

 

Mirage is a very good choice for quick takeoff and scramble.

[fitness88]

Thank you all for the help! I'm assuming the photo below is what you are referring to regarding the red button to be pushed if your throttle is not all the way back when starting the engine. What does that button do and why would it be in the design of the plane if it's only purpose is to allow the plane to start with the throttle in any position. Wouldn't it be more design efficient not to have it and for pilots to not start their plane with the throttle in any other position than totally off [full back]?

 

 

 

 

Capture.JPG

[fitness88]

You can also ask for rearm - refuel when the start engine procedure is going on.

 

Don't forget also to push a bit the throttle soon after you have started the engine.

 

Mirage is a very good choice for quick takeoff and scramble.

 

 

 

Are you saying the plane can have it's engine running while rearm-refuel is going or just when I'm doing everything else but the actual engine start?

[fitness88]

What jaguara5 and lemoen said.

The mirage only requires 2 switches (and 1 button) to get the engine spooling (from a default DCS `cold` config).

 

Battery ON, Fuel shut-off valve down.

So if the starter does nothing after that, check the throttle to see if it is fully back, if not, hit the tiny red switch to the right of it to do so.

 

 

 

Thanks! Yes I did what you said and the engine spooled up...so why are we told to flip the other switches in the start engine panel as well if all that is needed is 2 switches (and 1 button)?

 

 

What is the procedure to stop the engine properly either to end the mission or to restart shortly after?

Edited April 24, 2017 by fitness88

[razo+r]

Are you saying the plane can have it's engine running while rearm-refuel is going or just when I'm doing everything else but the actual engine start?

 

you can rearm, repair and refuel with running engine in any module except the FC3 ones and SU-25T

[baltic_dragon]

Thanks! Yes I did what you said and the engine spooled up...so why are we told to flip the other switches in the start engine panel as well if all that is needed is 2 switches (and 1 button)?

 

Hey! I will have to check that, the training missions were built when Mirage was still in earlier stage of development. I need to wait for the final manual and then check the training against it. You will find one or two more things in the training missions later on as well that are still not modelled yet, but it is bound to change.

 

Enjoy the Mirage!

 

BD

[The_Tau]

I belive that button is fuel cutoff. U pull throttle full back and then u press that button so throttle "locks" one step back. It is required by APU i believe to first have throttle in fuel cutoff and then after APU is running (around 11% of rpm) to push throttle forward to idle. That switch is also used to turn off engine. To be fair that throttle "lock" is also present in Viggen and MiG 21 so its not just Mirage using this mechanism.

 

So to turn off engine:

Fuel cutoff button

pumps off (left/right)

fire extinguisher off.

Edited April 24, 2017 by The_Tau

[fitness88]

you can rearm, repair and refuel with running engine in any module except the FC3 ones and SU-25T

 

 

 

Thanks...only on the apron or taxi way?

[fitness88]

I belive that button is fuel cutoff. U pull throttle full back and then u press that button so throttle "locks" one step back. It is required by APU i believe to first have throttle in fuel cutoff and then after APU is running (around 11% of rpm) to push throttle forward to idle. That switch is also used to turn off engine. To be fair that throttle "lock" is also present in Viggen and MiG 21 so its not just Mirage using this mechanism.

 

So to turn off engine:

Fuel cutoff button

pumps off (left/right)

fire extinguisher off.

 

 

 

I appreciate the info. Got INS, start/take-off, land, been working the radio. The next is to learn the NAV which I've been working on. As for the radio it seems the V/UHF is the prime radio covering 118-400 MHz, [pre-set & custom channels] is the UHF just for back-up operating at 225-400Hz?

Edited April 24, 2017 by fitness88

[Azrayen]

What does that button do and why would it be in the design of the plane if it's only purpose is to allow the plane to start with the throttle in any position.

IRL it unlocks the throttle so that you can take it from the "idle" to the "stop" position.

Slightly different in the sim, as the idle/stop stop cannot be reproduced on our physical throttles.

 

 

so why are we told to flip the other switches in the start engine panel as well if all that is needed is 2 switches (and 1 button)?

Because you start the whole aircraft, not just the engine.

For example: only the start-up fuel pump is needed for starting up the engine. But then, when in flight with much more fuel flow, you'll need the main fuel pumps. Those need AC current, which is only provided by either the APU (if you got one) or the engine running alternators. That's why there is a third, specific fuel pump, runs on DC (= battery is enough) to be able to start when you don't have APU available.

 

What is the procedure to stop the engine properly either to end the mission or to restart shortly after?

After having shut-down other systems (BR, DA, D2M, LL, Radar and IIFF, INS, Sec ADI (caged + its power switch to the rear), ermergency hyd pump "EP", radioaltimeter, VTH, VTB, radios and lights):

- Throttle to STOP (use the little red round button)

- all 3 fuel pumps to OFF

- Fuel Cut Off to CLOSE (cover open/switch to the left side)

Then after engine has stopped:

- BATT switch to OFF.

 

I belive that button is fuel cutoff.

That's not its name.

The fuel cut off valve does exist, it's a guarded switch in the start-up well "Coupe-Feu".

Edited April 25, 2017 by Azrayen
right => left. my mistake

[Davee]

IRL it unlocks the throttle so that you can take it from the "idle" to the "stop" position.

Slightly different in the sim, as the idle/stop stop cannot be reproduced on our physical throttles.

 

 

Hi Azrayen,

I've mapped it on my WH Throttle using script. Works very nicely.

As well as engine throttle shutdown.

 

Cheers,

Cats . . . .

[Azrayen]

Hi Catseye,

 

You're right of course, it does indeed with a Warthog HOTAS. But we cannot use the reverse move to go from STOP to IDLE (IRL this is what is done when the N > 10% on start-up).

 

Such a thing is implemented/works on the DCS: A-10C, but not on the DCS: M-2000C.

Obviously not a game changer, but still... too bad (and the reason I didn't map it yet on my Warthog).

 

Regards :)

[fitness88]

IRL it unlocks the throttle so that you can take it from the "idle" to the "stop" position.

Slightly different in the sim, as the idle/stop stop cannot be reproduced on our physical throttles.

 

 

 

Because you start the whole aircraft, not just the engine.

For example: only the start-up fuel pump is needed for starting up the engine. But then, when in flight with much more fuel flow, you'll need the main fuel pumps. Those need AC current, which is only provided by either the APU (if you got one) or the engine running alternators. That's why there is a third, specific fuel pump, runs on DC (= battery is enough) to be able to start when you don't have APU available.

 

 

After having shut-down other systems (BR, DA, D2M, LL, Radar and IIFF, INS, Sec ADI (caged + its power switch to the rear), ermergency hyd pump "EP", radioaltimeter, VTH, VTB, radios and lights):

- Throttle to STOP (use the little red round button)

- all 3 fuel pumps to OFF

- Fuel Cut Off to CLOSE (cover open/switch to the right side)

Then after engine has stopped:

- BATT switch to OFF.

 

 

That's not its name.

The fuel cut off valve does exist, it's a guarded switch in the start-up well "Coupe-Feu".

 

 

 

Thank you this is great! When I enter the plane the throttle is already at stop position, I can move it forward but then I need to use the engine shutdown button to get back to stop, if left alone I'm good to go.

 

 

 

1. When does this switch get pushed to the left?
   
2. Not sure I understand this 100%...is this when you're without ground power you can startup. How exactly do you do this?
   
3. 'Ignition/Ventilation selector – set to either GAUCHE (left) or DROITE (right) What does this do and why the choice between left or right?
   

[Azrayen]

1. My mistake, I edited.

Switch to the right = valve open, fuel goes to the engine

Switch to the left = valve closed, fuel doesn't go to the engine.

 

2. You always switch on start-up pump. It is enough if you don't have external power (APU = AC power. Refer to the manual for electric system schematics)

 

3. Aircraft equipped with two start-up plugs. Only one needed to start on the ground (both used to relight engine inflight). To even their wear, you change the one to use at each start up.

[fitness88]

1. My mistake, I edited.

Switch to the right = valve open, fuel goes to the engine

Switch to the left = valve closed, fuel doesn't go to the engine.

 

2. You always switch on start-up pump. It is enough if you don't have external power (APU = AC power. Refer to the manual for electric system schematics)

 

3. Aircraft equipped with two start-up plugs. Only one needed to start on the ground (both used to relight engine inflight). To even their wear, you change the one to use at each start up.

 

 

 

How long did it take you to get to know all this stuff about the M-2000C?, amazing!

I'm jealous...just kidding thanks

[escaner]

But we cannot use the reverse move to go from STOP to IDLE (IRL this is what is done when the N > 10% on start-up).

 

Such a thing is implemented/works on the DCS: A-10C, but not on the DCS: M-2000C.

Obviously not a game changer, but still... too bad (and the reason I didn't map it yet on my Warthog).

 

I agree, it would be nice to have this feature. That is how I start every other jet, except for the Mirage.

[Azrayen]

@fitness88: Not much more than a decade, really. :)

Got ~serious about it with this project.

[Davee]

Hi Catseye,

 

You're right of course, it does indeed with a Warthog HOTAS. But we cannot use the reverse move to go from STOP to IDLE (IRL this is what is done when the N > 10% on start-up).

 

Such a thing is implemented/works on the DCS: A-10C, but not on the DCS: M-2000C.

Obviously not a game changer, but still... too bad (and the reason I didn't map it yet on my Warthog).

 

Regards :)

 

Yes, I have it also mapped to go from stop to idle. Hope I understand you correctly.

 

Here is my script.

//IDLE CUTTOFF LEFT

MapKeyIO(&Throttle, IDLELON, PULSE+R_SHIFT+END, 0);

MapKey(&Throttle, IDLELOFF, PULSE+R_SHIFT+HOME);

 

Right throttle is not mapped.

 

The throttle must be in idle area before pressing the key for IO and then move back to cut-off.

 

For startup, once it is back in the cut-off position, just move it forward to the idle position. (After setting up the other switches including electrical power for startup of course.)

 

Cats . . .

 

[escaner]

For startup, once it is back in the cut-off position, just move it forward to the idle position. (After setting up the other switches including electrical power for startup of course.)

 

I also have it configured like that and just does not work. You still need to move the throttle forward through its axis for startup.

[protea1]

I CONCUR!

 

Almost certainly this ^

 

 

I CONCUR!

[norwegianwiking]

Ensure that the throttle lever is on the OFF position (full back), before

starting the engine. If it's not you have to press the red button next to the right of the throttle and then follow the normal procedure

 

Tripped me up for several attempts at the start-up training.

 

Also felt inconsistent until I figures it out, because making a start from ramp mission must have set it in the OFF position, and the process from the tutorial worked fine there.

[fitness88]

Exactly what jaguara5 says works for me as I too didn't realize the throttle has to be off.