other VR devices for DCS...

[wormeaten]

Just bit the bullet and ordered a Pimax. Not what i want, but i can justify the cost even if it is worthless in a years time.

 

I'm watching that too.

There was some problems in the past with DCS but looks like it was solved.

This is still in developing faze product similar like DK2 was but look like Pimax start to developing everything from the scratch. Before was based on DK2 drivers like OSVR for example.

 

Right now I'm watching some All in One Android VR's based on 2560x1440 IPS display for dissent money.

GenBasic Quad HD Android Virtual Reality System

Magicsee M1 PRO

 

Also 3 Glasses Blubur S1 is coming out soon. Preorder is 399$ full price will be 499$. But lets see some reviews first to check how this dual displays 1440x1440 (2880x1440) and positional tracking works in real usage.

 

[wormeaten]

pegon just to teas you till you waiting postman. :thumbup:

 

 

Compare little bit more and take attention in clearness of the picture and how much better you can read in numbers so imagine this advantage in DCS cockpit and HUD.

 

 

[dogbite]

Not the way Dirt Rally looks in my CV1. Mine looks just fine thank you. Taking a picture of a projection often exaggerates an image.

[John Hargreaves]

At least those videos appear to be like for like comparisons, that looks fantastic to me, a big step up. Second generation VR is going to be worth the wait. As you mentioned above dogbite, all the titles we are currently playing were retro fitted with VR capability, but the ones currently in development will have better visual performance and be designed with VR in mind in a much more fundamental way.

I wouldn't have been without my CV1 for a minute, I love it, but one thing you can usually be certain about with tech is that something better is around the corner. Future is looking bright, can't wait.

[wormeaten]

Not the way Dirt Rally looks in my CV1. Mine looks just fine thank you. Taking a picture of a projection often exaggerates an image.

 

Cant be more objective than that. As you see same man, same cammera, same condition. This is it when you compare it technically under same condition.

 

It is hard to and maybe not possible at all present it in 2D even true lens but definitely showing difference between this two displays. On video is obvious Pimax got sharper and more clear picture and CV1 got better colors. All this is because Pimax got 2560x1440 resolution on 803 PPI LCD display and CV1 got 2160x1200 430 PPI OLED display. And that's a fact like it or not.

 

One more important issue about this videos. CV1 is running on SS 2.0 whot is more than 4K resolution and pimax running without SS on native 2560x1440. So impact on hardware is less than CV1.

That means for same level of details in CV1 you need GTX 1080 but on Pimax You will be good with !060 or 1070 or RX 480/580.

Edited May 18, 2017 by wormeaten

[wormeaten]

At least those videos appear to be like for like comparisons, that looks fantastic to me, a big step up. Second generation VR is going to be worth the wait. As you mentioned above dogbite, all the titles we are currently playing were retro fitted with VR capability, but the ones currently in development will have better visual performance and be designed with VR in mind in a much more fundamental way.

I wouldn't have been without my CV1 for a minute, I love it, but one thing you can usually be certain about with tech is that something better is around the corner. Future is looking bright, can't wait.

 

Exactly. I'm not against Rift, fact is Rift got unbeatable positional tracking if we not count Vive. But as I say before I don't understand why they forcing more expensive and inferior solution.

DK2 was cost 340$ when it start few years ago using Samsung 1920x1080 360 PPI OLED display from Note 3. Just six months later Samsung release Note 4 with 2560x1440 540 PPI display. Comparing production cost than and today DK2 with Note 4 display should cost less than 340$ and such DK2 will be superiour product than CV1 in almost Half price. That is what I'm talking about.

 

I'm just call on Oculus promise to produce affordable and superior VR.

Fact is they break promise giving to us. and that is fact.

 

It is sad that we have to combining diferent products and inventing some DIY solutions to reach standard they promise and never fulfill it.

Edited May 18, 2017 by wormeaten

[pegon]

At least those videos appear to be like for like comparisons, that looks fantastic to me, a big step up. Second generation VR is going to be worth the wait. As you mentioned above dogbite, all the titles we are currently playing were retro fitted with VR capability, but the ones currently in development will have better visual performance and be designed with VR in mind in a much more fundamental way.

I wouldn't have been without my CV1 for a minute, I love it, but one thing you can usually be certain about with tech is that something better is around the corner. Future is looking bright, can't wait.

 

One thing i want to mention regarding development of VR games. Your periferal vision acts just like a radar in the sense that it has an acute sense of movement. What your eyes actually do when you scan for a moving target, is that your periferal vision detects movement. Then your focus shifts to the spot where movement vas detected. If you fail to focus your eye will overshoot, again putting your target in periferal view. Your eye will do this over and over until the target is locked in focus.

As you know, finding a target in VR is the hardest thing to do. You have a limited field of view, and currently, you have only the number of pixels of an aircraft to identify it. I think ED has to look more closely into how the eye actually works in order to develop a method to display aircraft that compensates your lack of periferal view.

[pegon]

pegon just to teas you till you waiting postman. :thumbup:

 

 

Compare little bit more and take attention in clearness of the picture and how much better you can read in numbers so imagine this advantage in DCS cockpit and HUD.

 

 

 

Thanks for this. I am looking forward to see if the instruments are clearer in the Pimax. Perhaps the one area where it may be better than the competition.

[dogbite]

That the fresenel lenses of the CV1 don't record well doesn't surprise me. However the video is nothing like the view of Dirt Rally when actually wearing the CV1. I find Dirt Rally (my favorite VR title) looks great -no glare, when actually wearing it. This video DOES NOT represent the actual experience.

[freehand]

It is well known the Pimax has a sharper image but unfortunately it ends there the package is half baked so there is still only 2 boys on the block for dcs the vive and rift for me personally a waste of money no expensive maybe.

[dburne]

It is well known the Pimax has a sharper image but unfortunately it ends there the package is half baked so there is still only 2 boys on the block for dcs the vive and rift for me personally a waste of money no expensive maybe.

 

Agree, no positional tracking and 60 hz refresh would be a no go for me no matter the image. Also I am able to run a pretty decent Pixel Density so my image ain't all that bad either.

IMHO only Rift and Vive are the serious contenders currently. It will be interesting to see how things shake out by the time the second generation of these two launch.

[pegon]

I agree that Vive and Rift have overall better features. But you say it yourself dbourne. By the time next gen VR comes, this gen will end up in the dustbin for those of us that are early adopters. No one of them offer what we want !

I figured out long ago that if you buy last years best CPU and GPU, you can have overall better performance from your PC by changing components more often.

To understand my opinion, you just have to ask yourself ; Will i buy a new VR headset as soon as something better comes to market ?

[dogbite]

It is well known the Pimax has a sharper image but unfortunately it ends there the package is half baked so there is still only 2 boys on the block for dcs the vive and rift for me personally a waste of money no expensive maybe.

 

 

In a sit down gaming environment, the Pimax seems to offer a compelling option and competition is good for the future of VR. I suspect that the price will be a lot higher if and when they offer roomscale tracking and hand controllers. When I bought my Rift, I didn't order Touch as I was sure being a pilot and racer that I would never use them. Boy was I wrong. When the price was halved, I ordered Touch and to my surprise I use them on a regular basis. Playing Robo Recall, Doom BFG Fully Possessed and Golf Club VR is sublime. It would be interesting to know if Pimax's 60 hertz would induce vomiting in Mount Wingsuit but without full tracking and hand controllers, I guess we'll have to wait for that answer.

 

 

Whatever one considers to purchase, they would be well advised to do as much research on the pros and cons of these "first gen hmds" with particular attention to what you want to play on it. One thing is for sure. If you get one that is highly regarded (reviewed) for what you intend to play. it will not be a waste of money, imo. Just don't be too sure you won't want to play in a roomscale setting with hands in game until you have experienced it.

[Bearfoot]

Will i buy a new VR headset as soon as something better comes to market ?

 

The answer is an immediate "yes"!

 

In the mean time, however, I am thoroughly enjoying the CV1! Even if a new model comes out tomorrow and makes it obsolete instantly, I will not only buy one immediately, I would have ABSOLUTELY no regrets about getting the CV1 a couple of months ago for all the hours of fun I've had: the last couple of months with the CV1 alone have already paid for itself many times over in the thrills and excitement and immersion and entertainment.

 

The argument about it being "overpriced" is remarkably almost child-like its naivette. The price is not (directly) determined by the cost of the product or the value of it, it is determined by whatever the market demand will support. Basic economics 101: go back to school or just google it to figure it out. Now, granted, the consumer demand itself is influenced by (perceived) cost/value ... but it is self-evident that both the CV1 and Vive are priced well enough for what they offer.

 

As for all these other offerings on the horizon ... without 6DOF they are not worth the cheap plastic they are made from. All the arguments of "wait till the resolution gets better blah blah blah" are made by people who really have not tried VR. After using VR for a while, the priority is: 6DOF, FPS, and only then resolution. And this is coming from a guy who used to fly with TrackIR on a 4K monitor. Take the 6DOF from the VR experience and I would rather eat my headset than use it. I would love more resolution, but honestly, today if someone gave me the choice of doubling my FPS or doubling my resolution, I would take the FPS in a heartbeat. It makes that much of a difference. After sorting all that out, then I will ask for more resolution. But until that comes out, I can tell you this: you won't find me desperately scanning the news, waiting anxiously for word of the holy grail high resolution VR headsets promised in the paradise of the future. Instead, I will be happily living in the present and enjoying the current CV1 a lot more than I could have ever imagined.

[cichlidfan]

All I know is that the CV1 costs less than what I paid for each of my two most recent monitors, and TIR was still another $150 on top of that, so I don't have an issue with the price.

[pegon]

All I know is that the CV1 costs less than what I paid for each of my two most recent monitors, and TIR was still another $150 on top of that, so I don't have an issue with the price.

 

Tell me, what would you choose for a online dogfight, CV1 or a 4k monitor ? Might i imply that the CV1 price comes on top of the price of a fancy monitor ?

VR is now in its infancy. Remember when we had "desktop replacement" laptops ? They were very expensive, and still you could get something twice as fast and half the weight 12 months later.

If you are willing to go trough all the generations of VR, paying top money each time for something that quite isn't good enough, then by all means do.

 

But it will be expensive. I guess the headset we want is still 3-5 years out. In the mean time i will do the "el cheapo"

[Bearfoot]

Tell me, what would you choose for a online dogfight, CV1 or a 4k monitor ?

 

Practical experience proves this: CV1. A week after getting the CV1, I moved my 4K to my work laptop and have not looked back. VR makes a practical difference: waaaay better gunnery, target tracking (mapping movements in head space) etc. etc. Spotting is difficult, sure. But spotting is difficult in 4K as well. ID'ing is more challenging.

 

Might i imply that the CV1 price comes on top of the price of a fancy monitor ?

 

You may, but it is false calculus: you don't need to buy a fancy monitor if you have the CV1.

 

 

VR is now in its infancy. Remember when we had "desktop replacement" laptops ? They were very expensive, and still you could get something twice as fast and half the weight 12 months later.

If you are willing to go trough all the generations of VR, paying top money each time for something that quite isn't good enough, then by all means do.

 

Everything is in its infancy. VR currently is good enough. Not great. But good enough. I would hardly call $500 "top money", and yes, I am happy to spend $500 or more every couple of years or so. The entertainment value of that $500 over the last few months have more than paid for itself.

[pegon]

So, i have had 2 VR headsets before. The first one i can not remember what it was called, but it was back in the time when the FW190 was a new thing in IL2. I tried it twice, then disposed of it. The next was the DK2. It was also disposed of when i moved 9 months ago. I have tried the CV1 and found that i would not spend the money based on previous experience.

The point of this tread is to discuss alternatives to Rift and Vive. Have you ever tried an alternative, and if you have, can you give some objective feedback ?

[Bearfoot]

Have you ever tried an alternative, and if you have, can you give some objective feedback ?

 

 

Sorry, no: have not tried any alternative.

 

Apologies for the noise.

 

(I will say, though, that, for me, any alternative will be assessed using the aforemention criteria in that order: 6DOF, FPS, resolution. That is: no 6DOF makes the VR just a gimmick that will grow old after the wow factor disappears, drop in FPS makes in literally sickening. Only after first two criteria are met, do I even care about increasing resolution over the current gen. Of course, FPS is a combination of CPU + GPU + memory + specific software optimization, and headset tech may only play a secondary role here ...).

[wormeaten]

Why every article about CV1 alternative turn into a fight?

I'm always scared thet in next moment someone will jump out of the screen with explosive vest and start screaming "CV1 UAKBAR"

 

Lets just focus on what this thread is about.

Is there alternative to CV1? Yes there is.

Is it perfect? No they not.

Is CV1 perfect? No perfect but complet solution.

 

Why you people are against alternative to CV1? We need it if we want better Rift in the end. Only competition forcing us to be better. Did you see what is happened after AMD ryzen release? Even those who will never buy AMD CPU because religion forbids it should be happy about Ryzen because they finally force Intel to wake up from hibernation they drop in without real competition. Now I'm expecting faster progres in new CPU tehnology.

[wormeaten]

So, i have had 2 VR headsets before. The first one i can not remember what it was called, but it was back in the time when the FW190 was a new thing in IL2. I tried it twice, then disposed of it. The next was the DK2. It was also disposed of when i moved 9 months ago. I have tried the CV1 and found that i would not spend the money based on previous experience.

The point of this tread is to discuss alternatives to Rift and Vive. Have you ever tried an alternative, and if you have, can you give some objective feedback ?

 

I'm exactly trying to do that. Like I say try it all, android based VR, DK2 and CV1 and it is based on multiple people experiance and conclusion.

 

I believe everyone who own CV1 if now have opportunity to buy DK2 with 2560x1440 Note4 display for 400$, like Oculus promise when ask money on kickstarter, will buy such advanced DK2 version before CV1.

 

Just to remind you DK2 was cost 340$ and CV1 was cost 600$ today 5oo$.

Dont forget in Europe CV1 drop price just less than 50$ and still cost on Amazon.de around 650$ (600€)

[pegon]

Ok, so we have it down then, we all want the best VR device. I have the following criteria :

 

Price : I expect to buy a new VR device within 12 months, so i don't want to spend a fortune on a intermediate solution.

 

Resolution : After trying CV1 i was back and forth a bit, but decided to hold off for a while. I hope Pimax is better

 

FPS: Pimax has only 60 fps, will this result in stutter when you move your head ? I don't know, time will tell. I have little motion sickness in real life, and none in VR, so not to worried.

 

6DOF : This is of course great to have, but i only intend to use the Pimax in DCS, so it is not critical.

 

If the Pimax seems ok, i will buy a stand alone 6DOF tracker for it in a few months. If not, there is a better product on the market, or it is simply not worth spending more money on.

 

All in all, i will try to offer objective feedback on it.

 

BTW, i described the intense feeling of immersion on my first VR headset as follows : "Like an Eagle, Leering at the sky trough a Keyhole"

[wormeaten]

There is few simple solutions and some more complicated DIY solutions so contact me when you got your Pimax. Also in June Nolocome to open market as well and we will see first reviews.

[hansangb]

So, i have had 2 VR headsets before. The first one i can not remember what it was called, but it was back in the time when the FW190 was a new thing in IL2. I tried it twice, then disposed of it. The next was the DK2. It was also disposed of when i moved 9 months ago. I have tried the CV1 and found that i would not spend the money based on previous experience.

The point of this tread is to discuss alternatives to Rift and Vive. Have you ever tried an alternative, and if you have, can you give some objective feedback ?

 

 

It's been discussed many many times. Back in late 2016, people found it lacking because you have to use it as an extended monitor, no 6DOF tracking which is important so you don't get nauseous, and folks had to tinker with the monitor orientation (horizontal/vertical) to see the menus etc.

 

And would i buy the next gen VR? of course. But it's a red herring since the folks here tend to be early adopters of every aspect of compute.

[dogbite]

As to the topic of this thread. The only way your going to get an honest opinion as to whether there is a better option in your hmd choice is:

1- to hear from thoses who have more than one

2-believe that they are being truthful and not just lying fanboys

3-hope their comparisons are relevant to your gameplay preferences

4-hope their concerns are the same as yours (our they affected by vr sickness, godrays, screendoor, visible Fresnel rings and so on)

 

 

As we humans all detect light at different frequencies, we all have different preferences about what we like and dislike in graphics, color, motion,etc.

The only true way to be sure what VR hmd will suffice would be to try all contenders which in many cases is not possible unless you know someone with one you are considering, they play what you (think) you want to play and then actually try it. I would think this will be a challenge for smaller installed base hmds such as Pimax. In these cases you would just have to take a leap of faith.

I think it would be fair to say that once you try a Rift or Vive in VR in general and, say, DCS in particular you should have a better understanding of whether reviews of other products have merit. I read many comments in many forums where it is obvious that the poster has never tried VR, yet tries to opine on the subject. caveat emptor