R-77 for Sukhoi's

[Sweep]

why upgrading the flanker? why not downgrading the eagle instead? :-D

 

That face when a half-decent 80s F-15 would beat the living excrement out of our current Eagle.

 

:D

 

 

(really good info here)

 

:thumbup:

[pepin1234]

The Flanker don't really need the R-77. The Su-27S does not carry this missile. But the R-27R smaller version ( R, not ER )have not the range that suppose to have. In game this missile is extremely downgraded. This is a real problem for real. Because this is the right missile that need the flanker.

[GGTharos]

Don't worry, everything is range according to the same philosophy in game.

[pepin1234]

Don't worry, everything is range according to the same philosophy in game.

 

No is not. Actually The people in game must take every time the ER version because the R version is very short in range, I mean too much. The people even don't make a payload with this missile.

 

The regular Flanker payload is only with two ER. and we must take full ER payload instead the R version. thats not right, the reasons are obvious. The R version have not the range like IRL have.

 

the Flanker tactics are shot first the longer range ER version and then continue combat with a lighter configuration R version.

 

I think is becoming the time things change for real. Not only this chapter is unfair. There are some others...

Edited June 12, 2017 by pepin1234

[probad]

people take the ers every time because they can.

[GGTharos]

No is not.

 

Yes it is.

 

Actually The people in game must take every time the ER version because the R version is very short in range, I mean too much. The people even don't make a payload with this missile.

 

Everything is too short in range.

 

The regular Flanker payload is only with two ER. and we must take full ER payload instead the R version. thats not right, the reasons are obvious. The R version have not the range like IRL have.

 

Ok, prove it. The range graphs for the R-27s are out there, you can find them easily.

 

the Flanker tactics are shot first the longer range ER version and then continue combat with a lighter configuration R version.

 

Where did you read this? Sounds like an interesting source for doctrine.

[OnlyforDCS]

Everything is too short in range.

 

 

 

This. However you can't claim that tactics wouldn't change if missile modeling improved and Eagle Dynamics managed to simulate the "real" ranges of all the missiles in the game. By range I also mean everything that goes with it, including guidance improvement, countermeasure resistance, etc.

 

At the very least people wouldn't be able to bring up threads like these every few weeks and complain constantly about how unrealistic missile modeling is in the game. Sure people would still find "reasons" to complain, but at least they wouldn't have a pebble to stand on in that regard.

[Cmptohocah]

... By range I also mean everything that goes with it, including guidance improvement, countermeasure resistance, etc.

 

My point exactly: what is the point in having better range when the missile doesn't fly towards the target? Even 200km range on R-27 wouldn't help.

 

Then when I mention that the R-27 guidance is a piece of crap (the missile starts self homing at 30km chasing chaff and then going ballistic) I get told of that I don't know how to fly and am using wrong tactics.

 

This is what is causing all the frustrations and of course people will take 6 x ERs, because that's how many you need to bring down an opponent at BVR (little exaggeration perhaps but you get the point) - unless you are engaging a tanker :)

Edited June 12, 2017 by Cmptohocah

[Nick Bones]

If you all are fine dealing with the upcoming F-18 and Thypoons on board of flankers armed with nothing more than SAHM then there's nothing to add, all is fine the way it is.

 

If we are waiting for something new like some newer version of Flankers in order to even-out the fight, that is also fine, but in my opinion this is not happening anytime soon.

 

For all the rest there is my suggestion which is to kindly ask for the addition of R-77 to su-27/33 evening out the BVR fight with NATO planes without taking away anything to anyone. To those that are saying that it is not 100% historically accuratec, my answer is "big wooop, who cares" :) .

[myHelljumper]

Then give mica and meteor missiles to the mirage 2000 and Aim-120D to the F-15C "wooop, who cares".

 

Balance for "even-out the fight" have no place in a simulator.

Edited June 12, 2017 by myHelljumper

[Nick Bones]

Fair enough, i can agree with that.

[myHelljumper]

Fair enough, i can agree with that.

 

:megalol:

 

Then DCS is not a simulator anymore...

[Koty]

Why not give flankers at least the P and EP, which entered service around the same time as ET and ER?

 

And if you want R-77... Sure, put it on Su-27SM. Along with some Kh-37P and A, A-G capable radar, terrain mapping included,... IIRC it had also TV guided bombs and missiles,... sure why not...

[Nick Bones]

As i originally stated, i do not play MP (i do not have nor time nor will to dedicate much time to it) so i care very little about balance in the game between airframes.

It just bugs me that the most advanced missile in the russian arsenal present in DCS is not available on the most advanced russian plane.

I'd be willing to sacrifice some historical accuracy in order to have that, and i wanted to see if i was the only one that felt that way.

From the comment it surely seems so ;).

[GGTharos]

Why not give flankers at least the P and EP, which entered service around the same time as ET and ER?

 

There is no official evidence that they entered service, nor is there available documentation regarding how they operate or how they are targeted.

[GGTharos]

As i originally stated, i do not play MP (i do not have nor time nor will to dedicate much time to it) so i care very little about balance in the game between airframes.

 

Then mod it into your game.

 

It just bugs me that the most advanced missile in the russian arsenal present in DCS is not available on the most advanced russian plane.

 

It is, but that aircraft just isn't available for you to fly ;)

[myHelljumper]

Then mod it into your game.

 

That's it.

[pepin1234]

Why not give flankers at least the P and EP, which entered service around the same time as ET and ER?.[/i]

 

Good point. This is one of several issues about. The EP versions are made to be compatible with old early radar serie.

[OnlyforDCS]

That's it.

 

Exactly. If you're flying single player, modding missile loadouts is probably one of the simplest mods you can do in the game.

[Frostie]

As i originally stated, i do not play MP (i do not have nor time nor will to dedicate much time to it) so i care very little about balance in the game between airframes.

It just bugs me that the most advanced missile in the russian arsenal present in DCS is not available on the most advanced russian plane.

I'd be willing to sacrifice some historical accuracy in order to have that, and i wanted to see if i was the only one that felt that way.

From the comment it surely seems so ;).

 

What you want is for the devs to put a missile on an aircraft that has never been put on said aircraft. The Su27S has never been able to carry R-77, not because of historical accuracy but because of technology accuracy. It's no different to asking for R-77s be put on the Su25 because the Su25TM could carry them or asking for an F1 Ferrari engine put in your 1960s Dino, in a simulation sense it's a daft request.

 

Modding for fun or balanced mission reasons is all well and good but asking for the default sim to be mixed up when it is supposed to be a sim based on realism is a non starter here.

[probad]

the most advanced russian plane.

its not, and if you think otherwise then you're purely playing word games to suit your own interests.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Is the most advance Russian plane INSIDE DCS.

[myHelljumper]

Is the most advance Russian plane FLYABLE INSIDE DCS.

 

Corrected it for you ;).

[Esac_mirmidon]

True. XD

[FLANKERATOR]

I've never come across anything showing Ps or EPs mounted on a Flanker so I don't know if they have ever been tested or used in training or combat but just out of curiosity, isn't this version supposed to home in on radar emission, i.e deny an enemy fighter from keeping it's radar on?