Separate launchers for each terrain

[Lixma 06]

Calm down guys, let's not get to feisty here (yeah I just said that).

 

The problem is, if we have desktop shortcuts that lead to a particular map, the shortcut in effect would bypass the 'new mission' window inside the mission editor so when you click it, the editor loads with the map you selected from the shortcut right?

 

The problem is, the mission editor is not a separate application, so you'd still have to load everything through to get to that stage in the first place, unless there's some way of getting a shortcut to bypass through stages of an application - it all sounds a bit complicated but it would still entail work, plus if you were to retain the centralised DCS 2.5 and even after you selected a map from the shortcut you'd still be able to select which map you want defeats the point of having the shortcut in the first place. When you might as well just load up DCS like normal and select the map you want there - which is probably what you'll have to do anyway...

 

No, you misunderstand - that's my fault.

 

The shortcuts would load DCS as usual, not go straight to the ME. But after firing up DCS when you went into the ME it would automatically load the terrain of your shortcut - rather than loading whichever terrain was being used in the previous session.

[Northstar98]

No, you misunderstand - that's my fault.

 

The shortcuts would load DCS as usual, not go straight to the ME. But after firing up DCS when you went into the ME it would automatically load the terrain of your shortcut - rather than loading whichever terrain was being used in the previous session.

 

Ahh I see, thank you for correcting.

 

So you hit the shortcut -> DCS loads as normal, like any other time -> you still have to press 'mission editor' but when the mission editor loads you have your terrain loaded up - effectively bypassing the 'new mission' window where you select which terrain you want and how your coalitions are set up correct?

 

If so (and please don't take this personally, I don't wish to be rude or condescending, I only wish to make a point), it seems that realistically you are only saving a mouse click - I can't imagine this saving any significant time over selecting the terrain from the 'new mission' window that should pop-up when you hit mission editor. Plus if you are planning on creating a mission with different coalitions, you save no time at all, - at most a second from moving the mouse and clicking.

 

Taking the above we seem to be asking for more effort than what is gained from the feature - that's all I'll say about it.

[Johnny_Rico]

command line options would be better if you wanted something like this eg

 

dcs.exe -normandy

 

would load dcs and prep the normandy map for use

[Lixma 06]

Taking the above we seem to be asking for more effort than what is gained from the feature - that's all I'll say about it.

 

You're correct in theory - but in practice we are creatures of convenience.

 

We can go into the C\Eagle Dynamics\bin folder and launch DCS - it's only a couple of mouse clicks.

 

Or we can use a desktop shortcut.

[Bearfoot]

I, too, am with the majority here. Pointless waste of effort. Not to mention, a pointless waste of effort that clutters my desktop. And this clutter will only increase as more theaters are added and as we start getting into 2.5 beta, 2.5 alpha etc. etc.

 

So, it's a strong "Noooooooooope" for me. Sorry.

[Lixma 06]

Not to mention, a pointless waste of effort that clutters my desktop. And this clutter will only increase as more theaters are added and as we start getting into 2.5 beta, 2.5 alpha etc. etc.

 

Optional.

 

Not compulsory.

[Northstar98]

You're correct in theory - but in practice we are creatures of convenience.

 

We can go into the C\Eagle Dynamics\bin folder and launch DCS - it's only a couple of mouse clicks.

 

Or we can use a desktop shortcut.

 

Well for me, I can either load up my computer and hit a shortcut which is in front of my face, is fairly large and noticeable (and is no more than 2 mouse clicks and a small hand movement) or I can click the start menu, hit computer, hit my C drive, hit program files (x86 mind you not the plain one), scroll down until I find Eagle Dynamics, click it, click DCS world, click bin, do some more scrolling until I find DCS.exe which has a standard application icon for me so it's easier to miss. Providing I'm on the ball (sometimes I scroll past things, sometimes I miss things and it takes me longer to find what I want) I save 10 seconds start to finish best case scenario, at worst half a minute in case I click a wrong directory and have to go back which is easily done when you're rushing around, having the shortcut for DCS in front of my face from the get go is far more convenient than choosing my map before opening DCS World rather than after - they both take near identical amounts of time, the convenience is marginal at best - saving one mouse click.

 

Don't forget, if I want to change my coalitions around, I have to go through the 'new mission' window anyway so it saves no time at all, plus I might decide that actually I want to do another map instead - and yes you said you don't want to remove the ability to change map from the mission editor - but if this ability is retained it negates the point of having separate shortcuts for different maps in the first place.

 

EDIT: It takes me 12.85 seconds to set DCS in motion without using the shortcut, it takes 50x less using the shortcut, and part is me hitting start and stop on the stopwatch.

It takes less than a second extra for me to hit 'new mission' when I'm in the mission editor compared to without (map already loaded, which is what the shortcut will achieve) so the convenience is really, really marginal at best, and for me the new mission window doesn't open automatically when I hit mission editor (I have DCS 1.5.8 so only 1 map) if it did the time I save is virtually nothing.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Northstar98

[Yurgon]

The idea wasn't to restrict DCS to one terrain at a time.

 

It was to give the OPTION to be able to fire up DCS with your desired terrain ready to go rather than having to wait while the mission editor loaded whatever terrain was used last session and then wait some more while it loads the terrain you want to work with.

 

You can still switch terrains, nothing changes.

 

There is no downside.

 

I see.

 

Makes sense. I probably wouldn't use this feature, but I can see the upside under certain circumstances.

 

Not that this is a majority vote, but you have my +1. :)

 

I know people say this way too often, but it sounds like this might be very easy to implement; some map must be pre-selected anyways, and the logic behind that must take into account installed/activated maps and probably the one that was previously used. Adding a command line option that could be sent to DCS via shortcut... it sounds to me like a competent GUI programmer could add this feature in 5 minutes. ;)

[Northstar98]

I see.

 

Makes sense. I probably wouldn't use this feature, but I can see the upside under certain circumstances.

 

Not that this is a majority vote, but you have my +1. :)

 

I know people say this way too often, but it sounds like this might be very easy to implement; some map must be pre-selected anyways, and the logic behind that must take into account installed/activated maps and probably the one that was previously used. Adding a command line option that could be sent to DCS via shortcut... it sounds to me like a competent GUI programmer could add this feature in 5 minutes. ;)

 

I'm not a programmer (limited, and I mean limited farting around with arduino is all I got, apart from scripting an annoyance program - which is like 20 characters) but it's being done via a shortcut, a shortcut is essentially a duplicate of the thing you're trying to execute - not entirely accurate a description - it's closer to a hyperlink, all it does is execute a program from somewhere else, the map selection is something that to my untrained eyes happens inside the program so to speak, the shortcut doesn't actually run some code so that DCS runs with the map already selected (which still has to be loaded in any case regardless - saving no time apart from a single mouse click - providing the 'new mission' window opens whenever you hit the mission editor).

 

Programmers out there or people who actually know what their talking about, if I am mistaken please feel free to order me to shut my mouth and I will gladly oblige.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Northstar98

[Buzzles]

I see.

 

Makes sense. I probably wouldn't use this feature, but I can see the upside under certain circumstances.

 

Not that this is a majority vote, but you have my +1. :)

 

I know people say this way too often, but it sounds like this might be very easy to implement; some map must be pre-selected anyways, and the logic behind that must take into account installed/activated maps and probably the one that was previously used. Adding a command line option that could be sent to DCS via shortcut... it sounds to me like a competent GUI programmer could add this feature in 5 minutes. ;)

 

Thing is, the OP's suggestion is just a work around for the actual problem of DCS remembering your last edited map and defaulting to it.

 

If it didn't try to be clever by doing that and just asked the user in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

The current behaviour does actually annoy me slightly, because you have to load *a* map regardless (which takes time) to get into the ME to swap maps to the one you want.

[Northstar98]

Thing is, the OP's suggestion is just a work around for the actual problem of DCS remembering your last edited map and defaulting to it.

 

If it didn't try to be clever by doing that and just asked the user in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

The current behaviour does actually annoy me slightly, because you have to load *a* map regardless (which takes time) to get into the ME to swap maps to the one you want.

 

Yeah that's a better request - which I will take as when you hit mission editor from the DCS main menu, have it so that the 'new mission' window (where you reassign countries to coalitions) pops up automatically allowing you to choose a map from the start without loading one in automatically. Just have it so you can select map from that window (which I believe you already can (I don't have DCS 2.x so I don't know)) and an open tab allowing you to go back to what you were doing last - done.

[Yurgon]

Programmers out there, if I'm wrong, please feel free to order me to shut my mouth and I will gladly oblige.

 

Well, a shortcut can send a command line argument as was suggested somewhere in this thread already. Let's imagine it being

dcs.exe -default_me_terrain=normandy

or some such.

 

And somewhere inside the logic that selects the map to be used when the ME is opened, this argument needs to be evaluated. The logic is already there, obviously. I imagine it might be a diff of as little as 2, 3, 4 lines of code. Pseudo code (new code bold):

preselect_map = ""

[b]if (arguments.default_me_terrain != "" && is_valid_map(arguments.default_me_terrain))
 preselect_map = arguments.default_me_terrain[/b]

if ([b]preselect_map != "" &&[/b] user_session.previous_map != "")
 preselect_map = user_session.previous_map

open_mission_editor(preselect_map)

 

Thing is, the OP's suggestion is just a work around for the actual problem of DCS remembering your last edited map and defaulting to it.

 

I'd be a bit annoyed if the ME always started with the map selection. During testing and developing, I hop in and out of it a lot.

 

Actually we could expand OP's idea to include:

 

dcs.exe -default_me_terrain=always_ask

 

Now you could modify your shortcut and get the behavior you prefer as well. :thumbup:

[Bearfoot]

Thing is, the OP's suggestion is just a work around for the actual problem of DCS remembering your last edited map and defaulting to it.

 

If it didn't try to be clever by doing that and just asked the user in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

The current behaviour does actually annoy me slightly, because you have to load *a* map regardless (which takes time) to get into the ME to swap maps to the one you want.

 

+1

 

MUCH better than the OP's request.

 

His solution takes a (very) minor irritation that affects a few people just some of the time (mission designers creating missions, as opposed to people just playing), and makes it a major irritation for most people most of the time at the cost of the most limiting of limiting resources -- developer time.

 

Your suggestion actually fixes the problem for everyone once and for all, without bothering anyone else who was not affected by it or who really could live with the way it was before.

[Bearfoot]

dcs.exe -default_me_terrain=always_ask

 

Even better . :thumbup: . :thumbup: . :thumbup:

[Northstar98]

Well, a shortcut can send a command line argument as was suggested somewhere in this thread already...

 

There you go then, learn something new everyday :thumbup:

 

I'd be a bit annoyed if the ME always started with the map selection. During testing and developing, I hop in and out of it a lot.

 

I can see how that might get annoying, if your DCS missions tend to have the same basic set-up - for me however, just having the thing set-up so it asks me before I edit is better - countless times I've started editing a new mission and just as I've set the bullseye location, airfield allegiance at mission start and basic things like that - I've realised I've left a country out of one of my coalitions that I want included, now I have to hit new mission to get the window up which is the only time effective way of editing coalitions which means I have to start all over again, now if I wasn't too hasty this wouldn't happen I admit that but it's very easy to do in my experience however regardless it can be sometimes infuriating - especially with my system specs.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Northstar98

[Yurgon]

[...] I've realised I've left a country out of one of my coalitions that I want included, [...]

 

That once happened to me - but with a mission I'd worked on for hours and hours. I was giving it the finishing touches when I realized the coalition setup didn't make too much sense. At that point it was an easy choice to just live with it. :(

 

But I think the option to edit countries/coalitions after starting work on a mission, that's definitely an item for a wishlist as well. :)

[Lixma 06]

+1

 

MUCH better than the OP's request.

 

His solution takes a (very) minor irritation that affects a few people just some of the time (mission designers creating missions, as opposed to people just playing), and makes it a major irritation for most people most of the time.....

 

How in your mind does an optional workaround (desktop shortcuts) turn into "a major irritation for most people most of the time"?

 

[Northstar98]

That once happened to me - but with a mission I'd worked on for hours and hours I was giving it the finishing touches when I realized the coalition setup didn't make too much sense. At that point it was an easy choice to just live with it. :(

oh no, you poor deprived soul, I mean I can't... even... blimey... :shocking:

 

But I think the option to edit countries/coalitions after starting work on a mission, that's definitely an item for a wishlist as well. :)

 

Yeah I imagine so, I also quite liked the idea of adding/editing/renaming and removing coalitions too https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=161289

 

Anyway back on topic

 

How in your mind does an optional workaround (desktop shortcuts) turn into "a major irritation for most people most of the time"?

 

I don't think I'd go as far as saying major irritation for most people most of the time, but I believe having the 'new mission' window pop-up is a better option, and removes the issue of having whatever map you used previously loaded up - also it eliminates the issue that myself and Yurgon were discussing.

 

The main thing for me is it sounds like more work for what would be little or no gain from how I see things - obviously both relative terms. For me it would be better to spend the same amount of work (obviously assuming here) on removing the problem rather than what is to me a more or less redundant solution, that in some cases actually solves nothing. As again, if I decide that I actually want a different map, or need to change my coalitions it saves no time - it would be better from my standpoint to just have the initial set-up window pop-up when I hit mission editor from the DCS main menu.

 

I could drone on for ages repeating the same thing over and over again, but hopefully I've made acceptable points, I think I will leave this here.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Northstar98

[cichlidfan]

The main thing for me is it sounds like more work for what would be little or no gain from how I see things

 

^^This.

[Buzzles]

I'd be a bit annoyed if the ME always started with the map selection. During testing and developing, I hop in and out of it a lot.

 

As in, dropping out to the main menu or swapping between missions?

 

Seems odd workflow, because currently if you're in the ME with a mission open and click the green fly button (or from drop down), when you exit you go straight back into the ME at the currently opened mission.

 

I wouldn't expect that to change.

[Yurgon]

As in, dropping out to the main menu or swapping between missions?

 

A bit of everything. Sometimes I fly other missions or hop on MP and then come back to the one I'd worked on, and that could happen several times over a couple of days. I mean, it was just an example.

 

In any case, if I know prior to DCS-launch which terrain I want to load up on the ME, OP's idea would save a few seconds. More so when DCS loads another terrain by default, which it currently does in 2.2. Loading a new terrain in that version actually takes a lot of time for me, and I don't even want to think about users who don't have an SSD yet, or who might develop on a laptop while they travel.

 

If I'm right and the whole thing could be done with a few lines of code, pretty much everyone could get the default they like best (and might test other options to see if they like those better after actually trying them).

[Bearfoot]

That once happened to me - but with a mission I'd worked on for hours and hours. I was giving it the finishing touches when I realized the coalition setup didn't make too much sense. At that point it was an easy choice to just live with it. :(

 

But I think the option to edit countries/coalitions after starting work on a mission, that's definitely an item for a wishlist as well. :)

 

Yes! This has happened to me too many times. Sometimes it is forgetting, especially with the ones that can be either side depending on who are the "good" guys vs. "bad", like "Insurgents", and other times is changing my mind or wanting to, for e.g., add other countries to get platforms/technologies not otherwise available to a particular coalition.

 

This -- the changing of coalitions after a mission has been created -- has been brought up before, and categorically and unconditionally rejected by ED:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=601226&postcount=4

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=605262&postcount=9

 

However, there have been instructions posted online on how to change the coalitions manually by unzipping the mission file and editing the text files. It is pretty painful, but I've used it before many patches ago, and it worked back then:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=121373

 

Now, there is also a mod by uboat, and Grimes, that allows you to do this magically within the Mission Editor:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168720

 

I've tried this, too, before, and when it worked, it worked BEAUTIFULLY!!! Unfortunately, with the public (ED site) version of this mod is enabled, 1.5.8 will not launch. There is a special patched version available for versions 1.5.8 and above, but I have not yet tried it:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3329822&postcount=65

[Yurgon]

Excellent suggestions, thanks Bearfoot! :thumbup: