Shrike88 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Greetings, More of a question for the Dev's at HB. I'm guessing the whole electronic countermeasures suite is going to be modeled for the F14, as well as the optional external pods. How well does the ED engine allow your coding to work against surface to air threats? Is this going to be modeled in the module ? I'm not referring to anything with electronic warfare against other aircraft. Just the ability of the HB F14 for jamming against SAMs and the role it will play. Is this something you guys are able to model? Thanks
Destroyer37 Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 If it had it I would expect it. The pod should be an option to expect limitations of DCS or otherwise. Specs:Fractal Design Define R5 Black, ASUS ROG Strix Z370-E, Intel Core i5-8600K Coffee Lake @ 5.1 GHz, MSI GeForce GTX 1080ti 11GB 352-Bit GDDR5X, Corsair H110i, G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2x16GB), Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB SSD
Lithion Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 Greetings, ... Thanks What I expect: the same ECM limitations that the rest of DCS currently has; ECM mostly just increases lock-on time, or the range from which they lock onto you T.16000m HOTAS + Pedals || TrackIR5 || Win10 64bit || 120+500GB SSD, 1TB HDD || i5 4440 @3.3GHz || 16GB RAM @ 1600MHz || GTX1070 G1 || FCIII, L39ZA, AJS-37, Normandy '44, Persian Gulf, Channel F/A-18C, Bf-109 K-4, WW2 Asset Pack, CA, P-47, F-16
QuiGon Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 What I expect: the same ECM limitations that the rest of DCS currently has; ECM mostly just increases lock-on time, or the range from which they lock onto you It also prevents IFF at range. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
turkeydriver Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 It also prevents IFF at range. That depends specifically on the type and frequency range of the jammer. IFF range degredation would be the result of a "noise" jammer. This is the most rudimentary form of jamming and easiest to counter against. VF-2 Bounty Hunters https://www.csg-1.com/ DCS F-14 Pilot/RIO Discord: https://discord.gg/6bbthxk
Lithion Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 That depends specifically on the type and frequency range of the jammer. IFF range degredation would be the result of a "noise" jammer. This is the most rudimentary form of jamming and easiest to counter against. I think QuiGon is referring to the in-game fact that jammers in DCS just muck up your ability to tag specs in TWS, and they don't return IFF in that specific case. That's what popped up in my head when he complemented my comment anyhow. T.16000m HOTAS + Pedals || TrackIR5 || Win10 64bit || 120+500GB SSD, 1TB HDD || i5 4440 @3.3GHz || 16GB RAM @ 1600MHz || GTX1070 G1 || FCIII, L39ZA, AJS-37, Normandy '44, Persian Gulf, Channel F/A-18C, Bf-109 K-4, WW2 Asset Pack, CA, P-47, F-16
Tiramisu Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 If it had it I would expect it. Are you sure about this? The AN/ALQ-167 is not mentioned anywhere, neither on the product page nor in any official post by Heatblur.
Shrike88 Posted November 20, 2019 Author Posted November 20, 2019 Well who knows now. I started this thread earlier last year and they never responded. I wonder if I read it on an initial product page and they removed it. I doubt I came up with the idea of it on my own. I'll see if I can do some history on my messages.
Harlikwin Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 What I expect: the same ECM limitations that the rest of DCS currently has; ECM mostly just increases lock-on time, or the range from which they lock onto you Yeah, ED seriously needs to Update/re-do etc the whole ECM system to something vaguely approximating reality. And no "its not classified". New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
Ignition Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 Yeah, there's no ECM in game. Only for FC aircrafts and its just noice for 1 single target. ED should focus on this as other features are being complete, but for now I think they are busy with a lot of things at the same time.
QuiGon Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 Yeah, there's no ECM in game. Only for FC aircrafts and its just noice for 1 single target. It's not only for FC aircraft, but also for the full fidelity modules. Jamming effects can be seen in the MiG-21 or the M2000C for example. They're missing from the F-14, Hornet and Viper so far. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Bunny Clark Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 Yeah, there's no ECM in game. Only for FC aircrafts Not true. The A-10C, Viggen, Mirage, and Tomcat all have working jamming systems in game. Oil In The Water Hornet Campaign. Bunny's: Form-Fillable Controller Layout PDFs | HOTAS Kneeboards | Checklist Kneeboards
Harlikwin Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 It's not only for FC aircraft, but also for the full fidelity modules. Jamming effects can be seen in the MiG-21 or the M2000C for example. They're missing from the F-14, Hornet and Viper so far. The hornet has jamming effects? since when? New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
IronMike Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 Everything Jammers is WIP atm regarding the Tomcat, and within DCS limitations, will be very limited upon completion, too. Heatblur Simulations Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage. http://www.heatblur.com/ https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/
QuiGon Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 The hornet has jamming effects? since when? ? I said jamming effects are missing on the Hornet atm. But that's just because they haven't been implemented yet, not because it's a full fidelity module. Full fidelity modules can have jamming effects just like the FC aircraft, as can be seen in the MiG-21 and M2000C already. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Harlikwin Posted November 23, 2019 Posted November 23, 2019 Everything Jammers is WIP atm regarding the Tomcat, and within DCS limitations, will be very limited upon completion, too. Any somke signals from ED they will upgrade the ECM code down the road? New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
Harlikwin Posted November 23, 2019 Posted November 23, 2019 ? I said jamming effects are missing on the Hornet atm. But that's just because they haven't been implemented yet, not because it's a full fidelity module. Full fidelity modules can have jamming effects just like the FC aircraft, as can be seen in the MiG-21 and M2000C already. It didnt read like that :). New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
Tiramisu Posted November 23, 2019 Posted November 23, 2019 Everything Jammers is WIP atm regarding the Tomcat, and within DCS limitations, will be very limited upon completion, too. So does that include the ALQ-167 pod? I just want to be sure about that.
Naquaii Posted November 23, 2019 Posted November 23, 2019 So does that include the ALQ-167 pod? I just want to be sure about that. The ALQ-167 was mostly used with TARPS so do not expect it before TARPS if we do it, which is not yet sure. (The ALQ-167 that is). Even so it's unlikely it will be more than a visual pod as we already have a jammer in the F-14. DCS ECM is limited to a single on/off boolean, you're either jamming or not, nothing in between. So having two jammers won't make a difference until such a time as when ED further advances what's possible in DCS in regards to ECM.
BonerCat Posted November 23, 2019 Posted November 23, 2019 A cosmetic pod would still be very nice to have. It improves immersion, and allows for more accurate missions, and cinematics. I can see why it's low priority tho Modules: F-14, F-15C, F-16C, F/A-18C, M-2000C, A-10C, A-10C II, AV-8B N/A, MiG-29, Su-33, MiG-21 Bis, F-5E, P-51D, Ka-50, Mi-8, Sa 342, UH-1H, Combined Arms Maps and others: Persian Gulf, Syria, Normandy, WWII Assets, NS 430 + Mi-8 NS 430
QuiGon Posted November 25, 2019 Posted November 25, 2019 The ALQ-167 was mostly used with TARPS so do not expect it before TARPS if we do it, which is not yet sure. (The ALQ-167 that is). Even so it's unlikely it will be more than a visual pod as we already have a jammer in the F-14. DCS ECM is limited to a single on/off boolean, you're either jamming or not, nothing in between. I hope that doesn't prevent you guys from implementing actual jamming effects (jamming strobes?) on the DDD and TID? Other aircrafts have such effects as well (MiG-21, F-15 and some others). Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Harlikwin Posted November 27, 2019 Posted November 27, 2019 The ALQ-167 was mostly used with TARPS so do not expect it before TARPS if we do it, which is not yet sure. (The ALQ-167 that is). Even so it's unlikely it will be more than a visual pod as we already have a jammer in the F-14. DCS ECM is limited to a single on/off boolean, you're either jamming or not, nothing in between. So having two jammers won't make a difference until such a time as when ED further advances what's possible in DCS in regards to ECM. Thats interesting, but it seems like different aircraft/jammers do work differently. I.e. Harrier vs Viggen ECM seem to have different results in terms of engagement ranges and lockon times from various sams? And yes I thourughly hope that ED "works" on EW in the future. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
Harlikwin Posted November 27, 2019 Posted November 27, 2019 I hope that doesn't prevent you guys from implementing actual jamming effects (jamming strobes?) on the DDD and TID? Other aircrafts have such effects as well (MiG-21, F-15 and some others). Yeah this needs to be a day 1 thing on most planes IMO. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
Naquaii Posted November 27, 2019 Posted November 27, 2019 The jamming effects for the AWG-9 are still on the list, we just haven't gotten to that yet.
gyrovague Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 I hope that doesn't prevent you guys from implementing actual jamming effects (jamming strobes?) on the DDD and TID? Other aircrafts have such effects as well (MiG-21, F-15 and some others). It doesn't prevent symbology of course, BUT given that the target object only has a flag specifying whether or not it's jamming, we need to come up with some kind of model of how that jamming might affect us. We'd need to make assumptions about jamming capabilities of the target, whether it jams noise, or interferes with range or range-rate discrimination, how sensitive our radar might be to all that based on how far away said target is and how powerful its jammer might be etc. Basically it would be a lot of speculative extrapolation, all from 1 bit of data. Of course the real world ECM and ECCM capabilities of aircraft are quite heavily guarded secrets, which is probably (at least partly) why DCS just has such a simple on/off ECM model. That said, the real F-14 could detect certain types of jamming, and show a strobe on the TID (and noise levels on the DDD), and moreover those TID strobes were shared on datalink, so a few tomcats working together would be able to triangulate more or less the location of a jammer (where the jamming strobes cross) and place a spot hook there and create a waypoint on that spot. It would be cool to have this in DCS. ____________ Heatblur Simulations [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Recommended Posts