Bloodhound57 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Hey guys, I hope we are witnessing two different styles of module design. The Hornet has already been textured and now is working on radar and other refinements. The Tomcat (from what we have seen) is not textured yet. Did the companies do things in the opposite order? I hope so because it's going to be a long road to release for the Tomcat if they still have to go through what the Eagle Dynamics Hornet is going through. Just some thoughts! ____________________________________________________ PC: ASROCK Z370 Gaming K6 | Intel i7 8700K | GeForce 2080TI | 32GB GeSkill 3200 RAM | GeForce 2080TI | 500GB Samsung 850 EVO M.2 | 1TB Samsung 860 EVO M.2 ____________________________________________________ FLIGHT STUFF: Rift S | Warthog Base | Virpil Base | Hornet Grip | A-10 Grip | Cougar Grip | Virpil F-14 Grip | Cougar MFD's | A-10C UFC | Saitek Flight Panels | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals
firmek Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 I would assume companies have flexibility to define their own WBS and do a things in different order. F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all
outlawal2 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Also, remember that there are different teams doing different work and many of the DVS are working on multiple modules.. So your texture artists will work on textures according to their schedules.. Maybe the Hornet texture folks started on the Hornet immediately at the onset of the project and the Heatblur folks were already working on another module when F-14 work began.. The nice thing about the textures is that aspect can be done pretty much anytime.. I wouldn't think at this point that texturing being in progress has any bearing on whether the module is to be delayed or not.. They are probably on time according to their timeline whether that timeline is different from the Hornet (or any other module for that matter) RELAX! "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
Bloodhound57 Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 I did not know any of that as I am not a software developer. Thank you for your response. Completely relaxed and just find it interesting. ____________________________________________________ PC: ASROCK Z370 Gaming K6 | Intel i7 8700K | GeForce 2080TI | 32GB GeSkill 3200 RAM | GeForce 2080TI | 500GB Samsung 850 EVO M.2 | 1TB Samsung 860 EVO M.2 ____________________________________________________ FLIGHT STUFF: Rift S | Warthog Base | Virpil Base | Hornet Grip | A-10 Grip | Cougar Grip | Virpil F-14 Grip | Cougar MFD's | A-10C UFC | Saitek Flight Panels | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals
westr Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 I think they did exactly the same with the Viggen. The textures were one of the last things to be applied. RYZEN 7 3700X Running at 4.35 GHz NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti 32gb DDR4 RAM @3200 MHz Oculus CV1 NvME 970 EVO TM Warthog Stick & Throttle plus 11" extension. VKB T-Rudder MKIV
Vitormouraa Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Hey guys, I hope we are witnessing two different styles of module design. The Hornet has already been textured and now is working on radar and other refinements. The Tomcat (from what we have seen) is not textured yet. Did the companies do things in the opposite order? I hope so because it's going to be a long road to release for the Tomcat if they still have to go through what the Eagle Dynamics Hornet is going through. Just some thoughts! Maybe, maybe not... Little story, I had the pleasure to work with some of the guys at RAZBAM on one of their projects that was canceled, the AT-27. And when we started working on it (we as a team), we started off with a basic external model and a cockpit with textures and stuff. The cockpit was there, but it had so many errors, texts were wrong, some of the instruments weren't even compatible with the version we were developing, but it doesn't really have to be. At the beginning of the development you need a few things as far as I can see, a 3D model and an SFM, mainly for the AI, and then you can start coding the EFM along with the systems. But as you work on the modules, as you get more images, more documents etc, changes are necessary. Improvements and tweaks are happening all the time. ED is a perfect example with their Hornet, they began with an earlier lot of the Hornet, tho the cockpit layout was the same, it had huge differences, such as the black walls which were compatible with NVG Goggles, the screens changed too, to a more modern one etc. They changed the lot to the Lot 20 as we know now, and they had to change some of that stuff. But they use a lot of placeholders indeed, and it doesn't really represent the final product at all. It's there just to have an idea and help them with the testings. ED had to update the cockpit many times I think, because of the newer Lot, things that were incorrect, and also new technologies. Last year ED released the Normandy map which brought a few new technologies, PBR and deferred shading. And making a PBR/DS cockpit ready is a (totally) different process. A lot of work is needed, and sometimes they have to re-do the cockpit at the end of the development. So at the end of the end you may see posts talking about the cockpit, but then you say, wait, didn't they have a cockpit already? In this case, I think Heatblur was, in fact, using a placeholder cockpit, but the order/sequence they post their updates might not represent the way it's being done. They have different teams working on different things at the same time as said above. So whenever they post an update regarding the cockpit, it may give you an impression that they are working on the cockpit first, but in reality, they are working on so many things at the same time, but they chose the cockpit as a topic for the update, while ED was doing the same thing, they chose the engines as a topic for their next update. See where I'm getting at? Obviously, this is what I see. Each company has its own way to work. And it doesn't necessarily means it's better or worse than others. I hope that helps. :) SplashOneGaming Discord https://splashonegaming.com
Bloodhound57 Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 Great info man. Thank you! ____________________________________________________ PC: ASROCK Z370 Gaming K6 | Intel i7 8700K | GeForce 2080TI | 32GB GeSkill 3200 RAM | GeForce 2080TI | 500GB Samsung 850 EVO M.2 | 1TB Samsung 860 EVO M.2 ____________________________________________________ FLIGHT STUFF: Rift S | Warthog Base | Virpil Base | Hornet Grip | A-10 Grip | Cougar Grip | Virpil F-14 Grip | Cougar MFD's | A-10C UFC | Saitek Flight Panels | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals
BlackLion213 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 So the HeatBlur F-14 project actually started with the artwork, which were the first images released in early 2015. Those models were meant to be the definitive art work and were undergoing multiple revisions to fix errors and short comings. The problem was that the shape of the F-14 is really complicated with lots of hidden curves and angles. Schematics often don't agree on many of the fine details and photos have perspective-based distortions that can limit their usefulness. Something similar happened with the interior also. Cobra decided to use photogrammetry to help capture very accurate textures. But this also revealed dimensional errors in the interior. Both the interior and exterior were made the "old fashion way" using simple schematics and photos. Because this wasn't giving the quality that Cobra demanded for this project, he decided to travel to the US and laser scan as many Tomcats as he could find. This meant starting over with new models for both the interior and exterior starting in late April 2017. This was a massive undertaking since the detail level afforded by scanning and photogrammetry was much higher, but all the prior shape issues were abolished by taking millimetrically perfect measurements of the real aircraft (many, many separate measurements actually). The end results will be the most accurate interior and exterior of the Tomcat that is technologically possible. But it is a lot of extra work while the other parts are nearing completion. I've seen parts of the new art and it is simply spectacular. Leagues better than the current models, both of which suffer from lots of errors. The Tomcat project will be much better for it, but means less to show while the models are being finished. Things are close though. :) -Nick
RaceFuel85 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Leagues better than the current models, both of which suffer from lots of errors. I'm presuming you mean the placeholder F-14 models? Or would you say it's quite possibly going to be the most accurate model in DCS as a whole?
BlackLion213 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 I'm presuming you mean the placeholder F-14 models? Or would you say it's quite possibly going to be the most accurate model in DCS as a whole? I am referring to the placeholder external and cockpit. :) -Nick
Vitormouraa Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Have you ever seen these two images? They blow up my mind every time I see them. And these are screenshots taken from the game, not renders. I don't know how Heatblur's work is better if they haven't really posted a picture of the in-game cockpit as yet. SplashOneGaming Discord https://splashonegaming.com
TomCatMucDe Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Have you ever seen these two images? They blow up my mind every time I see them. And these are screenshots taken from the game, not renders. I don't know how Heatblur's work is better if they haven't really posted a picture of the in-game cockpit as yet. You are right. People compare renders of the Tomcat and actual ingame cockpit photos of the Hornet. We need to have them both in hands to be able to judge. In my case I even need to see how they look in VR, that's what matters to me.
Lithion Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 As a sidenote I'd like to add that Heatblur's lead Cobra is also a graphics guy, could be that he's just too busy leading the dev team through the project and managing the company to keep having to update the visuals, and just rather uses placeholders until the final product can be featurelocked. I'm not saying Cobra's Heatblur's only graphics guy, I can just imagine that ED has the larger team between the two. T.16000m HOTAS + Pedals || TrackIR5 || Win10 64bit || 120+500GB SSD, 1TB HDD || i5 4440 @3.3GHz || 16GB RAM @ 1600MHz || GTX1070 G1 || FCIII, L39ZA, AJS-37, Normandy '44, Persian Gulf, Channel F/A-18C, Bf-109 K-4, WW2 Asset Pack, CA, P-47, F-16
RaceFuel85 Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 As a sidenote I'd like to add that Heatblur's lead Cobra is also a graphics guy, could be that he's just too busy leading the dev team through the project and managing the company to keep having to update the visuals, and just rather uses placeholders until the final product can be featurelocked. I'm not saying Cobra's Heatblur's only graphics guy, I can just imagine that ED has the larger team between the two. Well consider that ED has *two* full developers studios working on the Hornet. ED is likely going the 3D models and graphics, Belsimtek is doing the systems coding and FM stuff. Heatblur is one design studio that has much less manpower and such.
Silver_Dragon Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Well consider that ED has *two* full developers studios working on the Hornet. ED is likely going the 3D models and graphics, Belsimtek is doing the systems coding and FM stuff. Heatblur is one design studio that has much less manpower and such. correction.... ED has working on ED bug fixed and improvements, EDGE improvements, Hormuz, F/A-18C, Yak-52, "others" develops and professional civil and military modules. Belsimtek has working on F/A-18C, F-4E, Mi-26, and professional modules. For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
RaceFuel85 Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 correction.... ED has working on ED bug fixed and improvements, EDGE improvements, Hormuz, F/A-18C, Yak-52, "others" develops and professional civil and military modules. Belsimtek has working on F/A-18C, F-4E, Mi-26, and professional modules. Yes , thank you.
unknown Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 correction.... ED has working on ED bug fixed and improvements, EDGE improvements, Hormuz, F/A-18C, Yak-52, "others" develops and professional civil and military modules. Belsimtek has working on F/A-18C, F-4E, Mi-26, and professional modules. Is this a typo or do you know more than we do? :D :smilewink: Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1, F-4E Phantom II System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings
Silver_Dragon Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Is this a typo or do you know more than we do? :D :smilewink: Mi-24P, sorry :lol: For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
Cobra847 Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Have you ever seen these two images? They blow up my mind every time I see them. And these are screenshots taken from the game, not renders. I don't know how Heatblur's work is better if they haven't really posted a picture of the in-game cockpit as yet. We have posted screenshots of the in-game cockpit. E.g.: Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/
Cobra847 Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 You are right. People compare renders of the Tomcat and actual ingame cockpit photos of the Hornet. We need to have them both in hands to be able to judge. In my case I even need to see how they look in VR, that's what matters to me. The images posted are not renders. They're in-engine screenshots. Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/
Greekbull Posted March 28, 2018 Posted March 28, 2018 Heck yeah! And your in game stuff is just beautiful! Thanks Cobra! AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D | ASUS Crosshair Hero X670E | 64GB G Skill Trident Z DDR5 6000 | Nvidia RTX 4090 FE| Samsung EVO Plus 6 TB M.2 PCIe SSDs | TM Hornet Stick/WinWing Hornet Throttle and MIP | VPForce Rhino FFB Base | TM TPR Rudder Pedals W/Damper | Varjo Aero/Pimax Crystal | NeoEngress NACES Seat VFA-25 Fist of the Fleet Carrier Strike Group One(CSG-1) Discord
Vitormouraa Posted March 28, 2018 Posted March 28, 2018 They are both amazing. Love them! Is that an F-14B? Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk SplashOneGaming Discord https://splashonegaming.com
rajdary Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 The F14 cockpit by Heatblur is amazing! Phanteks Enthoo Evolv Tempered Glass, Asus ROG Maximus IX Hero, Intel i7 7700K @ 4.8, Corsair HX 1000i, Nzxt Kraken 62, 32gb DDR4 3000Mhz Corsair Dominator Platinum, Nvme SSD Samsung 960 Evo 1Tb, Asus Strix OC 1080ti, Philips 43" 4K Monitor + 2 x Dell 24" U2414H, Warthog HOTAS, Track IR 5, Obutto R3volution, Buttkicker Gamer 2, MFG Crosswind pedals, Occulus Rift CV1, Windows 10 Pro.
Recommended Posts