Cold War 1947 - 1991

[Apok]

How about ground troops then? Or some small static objects to beef up defence.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Apok

[Alpenwolf]

7 hours ago, Apok said:

How about ground troops then? Or some small static objects to beef up defence.

 

 

You didn't really read my reply, did you?

[Schmuck]

Unfortunately I was not on blue so can not give more detail, hopefully a pilot of that night can bring more info. I joined later in the mission (The Tunb Identity) for Red and we had control over the islands. During that time the Blues could not take any A2A missiles so Red had complete air superiority. I’m not sure if this is a bug or purposeful. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Schmuck

[Alpenwolf]

55 minutes ago, Schmuck said:

Unfortunately I was not on blue so can not give more detail, hopefully a pilot of that night can bring more info. I joined later in the mission (The Tunb Identity) for Red and we had control over the islands. During that time the Blues could not take any A2A missiles so Red had complete air superiority. I’m not sure if this is a bug or purposeful. 

 

 

Not a bug. They ran out of missiles.

[Schmuck]

33 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Not a bug. They ran out of missiles.

I didn’t know that could happen, I’m still learning a lot of these missions. Can the hueys bring ammo to rearm the base?

[The_Tau]

53 minutes ago, Schmuck said:

I didn’t know that could happen, I’m still learning a lot of these missions. Can the hueys bring ammo to rearm the base?

Unfortunatly no, Ammo in bases are limited, same as airframes. You cant restock them. Ammo for UH1 is for ground units like SA13s, SA6s, HAWK, Bradleys etc.

[Apok]

7 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

You didn't really read my reply, did you?

I did(too late), but couldnt delete my question so ...i just added static objects to mask it

[Get_Lo]

22 hours ago, rossmum said:

 

Could've sworn it was a little worse, coming off some US chart or other I saw a week or two ago. Wish I could remember what the diagram was called or where it was from... in any case, woeful TWR still stands. Meanwhile, come to red team, we have t h r u s t

An important bit of information that people overlook is how much of a plane's thrust can be unlocked without burner (Mil-power) 
The F-5 can get 74% of its total thrust without AB
F1 can get 70% of its total power without AB
and the MiG-21 only gets 58% on mil
still beats the Viggen's 57% though
 

[Alpenwolf]

Infantry - Test Results:

 

An infantry unit armed with RPG can take out BTR-80's, M113's and Humvees very easily. Mostly 1 shot is all that is needed. The RPG unit in DCS has a range of 500 m. The accuracy of the RPG unit decreases a bit the further the target is. I ran tests of 10 APC's vs 10 RPG's facing each other at a range of 400 m (an exaggerated scenario no doubt). The outcome is incredible! The RPG's destroyed 4-5 APC's every time! I then put 10 APC's vs 20 RPG's with the same parameters and the APC's got entirely destroyed. No chance! So it is obvious that these tiny little assets are a nightmare to their enemy ground vehicles, and they would change the ground warfare in all missions completely. Mi-8's and UH-1's would then be more desired as gunships using their door-gunners to deal with the new threat before tanks are sent in. Tanks would be all of a sudden very hesitant going into urban areas. In the mission Homs for instance (currently offline) around 28 RPG units are scattered all over the city of Homs to stop incoming Abram's among other Blue ground units. The RPG's are Al controlled only and cmdr operators have no access to them. I monitored these units every time there were Blue ground units approaching them and they did score a kill or two (bear in mind that RPG units in DCS require 4-6 shots to destroy an Abrams unlike APC's with 1 shot mostly as mentioned above. T-72's are taken out with 2-3 shots, mostly 2).

 

I bring this to you because I'm very eager to stop allowing Mi-8's and UH-1's to deploy tanks or APC's at some point. Ground assets should be limited (say 40 Abrams tanks vs 60 T-72's at mission's start or the like) and transport helicopters would then stick to transporting troops only/mainly. And I'm talking about this subject now because the new mission, The Tunb Identity, where the ground warfare takes place on two small islands only, has shown me that APC's on those two islands are simply sitting ducks! Easily taken out by MiG-21's and F-5's whereas infantries would be way harder to detect and can easily hide behind a tree.

 

The only reason why I haven't done that yet is the bad behaviour of infantries in DCS. As of now you can't even move them around even if a cmdr operator assigns waypoints to them. Prior to DCS 2.7, a cmdr operator would move them around, yes, but they'd get stuck somewhere at some point and not move or fire any more. I remember Simon Pearson ensuring in one of the interviews he made last year that ED will (maybe are by now) focus on the Combined Arms module heavily. When that happens one day, infantries would play a major role in many missions and hunting them in Mi-8's, UH-1's, Mi-24's, OH-58's and hopefully one day AH-1's would yet be another fun adventure!

 

Looking forward to it.

[Apok]

How about assault rifle groups and scout humvees/BRDM? Just to find right ratio.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Apok

[Alpenwolf]

1 hour ago, Apok said:

How about assault rifle groups and scout humvees/BRDM? Just to find right ratio.

 

 

 

 

I said it already, mate; the infantries are bugged.

[Irish79]

Hey Alpinewolf

 

Thank you for this server. Have recently found it and been playing on it a lot with friends mainly in Helicopters (normally fly as Bangkok 6). Have had some of my best online sim experiences in the last few days. Especially on Sat night when on Blue we had a really great GCI and the whole team working together.

 

Is there a discord community?

 

With regards The Tunb Identity map, it seem pretty rough on Helo pilots unless there is a good amount of co-ordination. We are easy to spot and shoot down. No terrain to take advantage of etc. Would love to see a similar mission design of troops racing to a town but on varied terrain. Maybe one of the other missions has this as I have not played through the full rotation yet.

 

Final query is on radio beacons. One map I was on last night (Jahrom and the lakes etc) allowed them to be dropped via CTLD but I couldn't pick them up when tuning into them. Other maps don't allow it. Obviously as a helo pilot it would be nice to be able to drop beacons for navigation that could then be shared via the F10 theatre.

 

Once again thank you for what has become my go to PvP server!

 

Cheers

Edited May 13, 2021 by Irish79

[Alpenwolf]

1 hour ago, Irish79 said:

Hey Alpinewolf

 

Thank you for this server. Have recently found it and been playing on it a lot with friends mainly in Helicopters (normally fly as Bangkok 6). Have had some of my best online sim experiences in the last few days. Especially on Sat night when on Blue we had a really great GCI and the whole team working together.

 

Is there a discord community?

 

With regards The Tunb Identity map, it seem pretty rough on Helo pilots unless there is a good amount of co-ordination. We are easy to spot and shoot down. No terrain to take advantage of etc. Would love to see a similar mission design of troops racing to a town but on varied terrain. Maybe one of the other missions has this as I have not played through the full rotation yet.

 

Final query is on radio beacons. One map I was on last night (Jahrom and the lakes etc) allowed them to be dropped via CTLD but I couldn't pick them up when tuning into them. Other maps don't allow it. Obviously as a helo pilot it would be nice to be able to drop beacons for navigation that could then be shared via the F10 theatre.

 

Once again thank you for what has become my go to PvP server!

 

Cheers

 

 

Hey, glad you're enjoying it!

 

Most missions have scenarios like that where helicopters race for towns, airbases, FARP's, lakes, you name it. The challenge in The Tunb Identity mission is pretty tough on helicopter pilots, I'm aware of that. I think I wanted something else to, and as I always say, break the routine so I ended up designing a mission over the waters.

 

I'm hoping for the Mi-24 to have some AA capabilities. If that's the case the Hind and the Gazelle Mistral will then be added with the primary objective of providing escort. If you are easily stopped so is the incoming bandit in most cases. Would be interesting to see how things play out then.

 

The mission is still new and it's got potential.

 

I'll check out the beacons thing tomorrow.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

[Alpenwolf]

The beacons seem to work just fine. Just finished testing them in three different missions.

[Get_Lo]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4537864796226946&id=594476197232512

hey! a new cold war plane (eventually)

[rossmum]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:10 PM, Alpenwolf said:

The only reason why I haven't done that yet is the bad behaviour of infantries in DCS. As of now you can't even move them around even if a cmdr operator assigns waypoints to them. Prior to DCS 2.7, a cmdr operator would move them around, yes, but they'd get stuck somewhere at some point and not move or fire any more. I remember Simon Pearson ensuring in one of the interviews he made last year that ED will (maybe are by now) focus on the Combined Arms module heavily. When that happens one day, infantries would play a major role in many missions and hunting them in Mi-8's, UH-1's, Mi-24's, OH-58's and hopefully one day AH-1's would yet be another fun adventure!

 

Looking forward to it.

 

The infantry are in a pretty bad state right now, and the possibility of chain-capturing airfields means they can't be used at all for some missions, but honestly they should make up the bulk of any ground war with helicopters slinging light armour and anything substantial being brought up by road, IMO. Relying mostly on vehicles for ground war opens them up to being picked off by loitering ground attack aircraft during low pop hours or while teams are stacked, not just if one team's CAP are letting the side down, and it can get annoying fast.

 

FWIW a large part of the issue with units getting easily picked off comes from the weapons/systems available - in particular the Vikhr and the later Mav variants, but also the Ka-50 and Su-25T in general. Because there's often a fairly reduced threat of smallarms/AAA/SAMs, people tend to loiter in an area and just pop things methodically. While it's probably reasonably fun for the guys doing it, it means slinging is extremely frustrating in some missions, and it isn't really a good representation of how ground attack actually works. You get one pass before every single guy within a good 5-10km knows which direction you egressed, and is just itching to see you turn around and come back. Since the DCS AI aren't very bright, this effect isn't really that evident ingame and so the moment something with FLIR/TI of any sort turns up, it's basically curtains for whatever's on the ground (this is why the OH-58D is a bit dicey here - it's a fully digital aircraft with very modern weapons and systems, while even the Ka-50 is day TV only and all the Mi-24 has is a janky magnified optical periscope for the ATGMs). I kind of feel like if we're going to stick to slinging one unit per helicopter per trip, and stick to vehicles as our main ground game element, dialling back the precision weapons or even going totally to dumb bombs and rockets might make the missions a little more dependent on committed A/G coordination and less on someone sneaking a heavily-loaded aircraft around a flank while CAP are off with the pixies and air defence is non-existent.

 

We really, really, really need a Cobra, but unfortunately I'd put money on any eventual AH-1 being a W at earliest, because the 'muh capabilities' lobby is strong and so are their wallets.

 

As for earlier timeframes - if anything there should be more 19s rather than 21s, especially if ability to wipe ground targets in quick succession is a concern. Just don't give it missiles (R-3s on the 19P were a mid/late 60s add-on anyway). The longstanding FM issue should be fixed quite shortly and I expect a lot more people will be flying it, now it won't be trying to kill itself for 0.1G too much stick deflection in a turn. Word of advice to the F-5 guys: I really wouldn't try turnfighting it anymore.

[Alpenwolf]

2 hours ago, rossmum said:

 

The infantry are in a pretty bad state right now, and the possibility of chain-capturing airfields means they can't be used at all for some missions, but honestly they should make up the bulk of any ground war with helicopters slinging light armour and anything substantial being brought up by road, IMO. Relying mostly on vehicles for ground war opens them up to being picked off by loitering ground attack aircraft during low pop hours or while teams are stacked, not just if one team's CAP are letting the side down, and it can get annoying fast.

 

FWIW a large part of the issue with units getting easily picked off comes from the weapons/systems available - in particular the Vikhr and the later Mav variants, but also the Ka-50 and Su-25T in general. Because there's often a fairly reduced threat of smallarms/AAA/SAMs, people tend to loiter in an area and just pop things methodically. While it's probably reasonably fun for the guys doing it, it means slinging is extremely frustrating in some missions, and it isn't really a good representation of how ground attack actually works. You get one pass before every single guy within a good 5-10km knows which direction you egressed, and is just itching to see you turn around and come back. Since the DCS AI aren't very bright, this effect isn't really that evident ingame and so the moment something with FLIR/TI of any sort turns up, it's basically curtains for whatever's on the ground (this is why the OH-58D is a bit dicey here - it's a fully digital aircraft with very modern weapons and systems, while even the Ka-50 is day TV only and all the Mi-24 has is a janky magnified optical periscope for the ATGMs). I kind of feel like if we're going to stick to slinging one unit per helicopter per trip, and stick to vehicles as our main ground game element, dialling back the precision weapons or even going totally to dumb bombs and rockets might make the missions a little more dependent on committed A/G coordination and less on someone sneaking a heavily-loaded aircraft around a flank while CAP are off with the pixies and air defence is non-existent.

 

We really, really, really need a Cobra, but unfortunately I'd put money on any eventual AH-1 being a W at earliest, because the 'muh capabilities' lobby is strong and so are their wallets.

 

As for earlier timeframes - if anything there should be more 19s rather than 21s, especially if ability to wipe ground targets in quick succession is a concern. Just don't give it missiles (R-3s on the 19P were a mid/late 60s add-on anyway). The longstanding FM issue should be fixed quite shortly and I expect a lot more people will be flying it, now it won't be trying to kill itself for 0.1G too much stick deflection in a turn. Word of advice to the F-5 guys: I really wouldn't try turnfighting it anymore.

 

Couldn't agree more, mate, and you know what I'm going to say: I deal with what I have at hand. As you said it yourself and me prior to you, the infantries in DCS, especially as of now, are really unreliable. I'd love nothing more than having transport helicopters transport groups of mixed infantries. Example: 4 x Assault riflemen, 1 x MG, 2x RPG's, 1 x MANPAD. Maybe give the Mi-8 the capability of carrying more as it should. The whole ground game would change!

 

On a side note, I'd need some Blue players to do me the favour of providing me with a list of the currently available Blue aircraft on the server and the smart weapons they shouldn't have. I mean, the A-10 gets the AGM-65H's only. I'm not going to remove those completely, maybe just reduce the numbers a little more. Same with the Viggen's weapons. Currently no RB-15F's, no RB-75B's, no RB-75T's and no BK's. But then again it's only 4 missiles so I'm not sure if I should remove them all. I wouldn't mind removing the Su-25T though, especially with the Harrier being out of the server. The Ka-50 is still "just" a helicopter and there I seem to differ from you and other players. It's more dependant on a good GCI than a striker and you don't have that quite often, especially someone who's tending to the ground warfare. They're quite often rushing the TA, killing maybe one or two tanks to then get shot down easily by ground fire. Or, they're very cautious, hiding around hills and mountains and waiting in the shadows to maybe then get a kill or two (or more). However, they're quite often surprised by some sneaky ground unit or a Blue fighter. I mean, that's what I see happening quite often. I'm not assuming things or just making 'em up.

 

The above mentioned changes in your and my post are always on my mind and I had many infantries included years ago if you were around. If you or others only knew how often I had to rework most of my missions. Always adapting to whatever DCS throws at me

 

All the above will come but only in time. Can't rush things. Why? because "some"things are not ready to be included or severely changed yet. And that's how I've been doing it ever since.

[Apok]

Su25t is ok. In a way it simulates Su17m4 capabilty wise. Maybe vikhrs to be removed.

[Alpenwolf]

41 minutes ago, Apok said:

Su25t is ok. In a way it simulates Su17m4 capabilty wise. Maybe vikhrs to be removed.

 

We're getting the Su-17 anyway. Su-25T is only a temporary thing.

[Arikaj]

8 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

We're getting the Su-17 anyway.

Huh? How did I miss it? Who is making it?

[Alpenwolf]

1 hour ago, Arikaj said:

Huh? How did I miss it? Who is making it?

 

 

[Alpenwolf]

Server News:

 

Operation The Tunb Identity:

- All AG weapons (missiles, rockets, bombs, guided/unguided, etc.) were removed from all airbases!

- The only exception are the AJS37's RB-04E anti-ship missiles. 24 missiles are available.

- With that the AJS37's main task is what it was built for in the first place: Hunting ships!

- That means MiG's and F-5's should only focus on gaining air superiority throughout the whole mission.

- The survivability of APC's on both sides should increase or so I hope.

- Mi-8's and UH-1's have access to rockets and should try and provide CAS if needed.

- I can't stop pilots from using their guns to take out APC's but taking the AG ordnance from them should help the situation a bit.

- Looks like the Ka-50 is getting some Iglas any time soon now. With that it will be added to provide escort for Mi-8's! Only Iglas will be allowed.

- SA342Mistrals will also be added to escort UH-1's.

- Fog has been added to provide some cover for helicopters crossing the waters with nowhere to hide. I hope this forces fighters to fly higher than usual.

[Get_Lo]

my friend on REDFOR couldnt put missiles on his MiG-21 at the start of The Tunb identity, very start of the mission he spawned on Qeshm

 

[Alpenwolf]

11 hours ago, Get_Lo said:

my friend on REDFOR couldnt put missiles on his MiG-21 at the start of The Tunb identity, very start of the mission he spawned on Qeshm

 

 

The mission is fine, it's just when a mission is updated and added back to the mission's list and put online for the first time ED's dedicated server doesn't upload all the elements of the mission.

[Get_Lo]

6 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

The mission is fine, it's just when a mission is updated and added back to the mission's list and put online for the first time ED's dedicated server doesn't upload all the elements of the mission.

Got it, thanks! btw Two Towns is the best mission  Something for everyone and a great AO with lots of landmarks. fantastic design