Cold War 1947 - 1991

[The_Tau]

3 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

There are two missions (currently offline), Mountain Peaks and Sukhumi - The Beginning,

 

I like those missions, maybe bring at least 1 back (some Korea feel for p51) ?

 

3 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

 R-13M1's and R3S's vs GAR-8's and RB-24's, instead of R-60's vs AIM-9P's and RB-24J's. Seems like Blue air-to-air missiles (Cold War 1947-1991 missiles) aren't that good in DCS. Or are they?

 

 

GAR8 (for F5 renamed as AIM9B) is even worse then R3S last time I checked (even though they should be almost exactly the same). Basically 9B doesnt even start turning until rocket motor runs out... R13M1 is way better missile (and it should be, as it was developed from captured AIM9B 20 years later). We simply lack earlier AIM9s variants like G or J. But AIM9P vs R60/R13M1 is quite historical match up.. 

 

Well Aim9P was export variant for 2nd rate US allies like Iran or Taiwan. NATO had better rear only missiles... like I said Gs, Hs or Js.. but we dont have them in DCS. Maybe F14A (early or Iran version) will bring more older toys to play. 

 

Quote

I wouldn't mind going back to R-13M1's and R3S's vs AIM-9P's and RB-24's. You know as I always say, to break the routine.

That sounds like good set up too, after all 21s can take 4 missiles. 

 

3 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Unless I'm wrong, the USAF has always used guided weapons to deal with enemy tanks (years post WWll obviously - and it is the case in the missions I have) so taking away the AGM-65's would really make it tough for Blue.

 

 

US would mass use cluster bombs like Mk20s Rockeyes.... too bad F5E cant take those. I think C B U - 5 2 B its quite bad with antitank duties... 

Maybe M2k only used as AG? No Magics, no Super 530s, just dumb bombs and Mk20s... ? To nerf it further maybe take away Eclair pod too, without it M2k only have 16 flares. At least until we get like Mirage F1, A6 or A7...

 

A10 and maverick were introduced almost in the same time, so its hard to take one, leaving another

 

But also there was a Bullpup missile, hand guided (on viggen is RB05). Which was direct precursor of AGM65. But that was long before SU25A was a thing..

So if you take away AGM65 and leave only viggen with RB05 + cluster bombs for Blue,  then Red doesnt really get any striker aside MiGs themselfs with bombs, cluster, Grom maybe and rockets. But they should get Mi24P so there is a striker in that. 

 

@Alpenwolf

BTW new tanks?!! Among others Leo 2A4(drivable!), PT76 and Chieftain.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The_Tau

[Apok]

Leo1 and Leo2  is drivable. Maybe we can replace Abrams now. 

[The_Tau]

3 minutes ago, Apok said:

Leo1 and Leo2  is drivable. Maybe we can replace Abrams now. 

I guess we could have 2 scenarios, 

T55 vs leo1

T72B vs Leo 2A4, 

cant get more historical than that. 

[Alpenwolf]

I hear you on the tanks, I just don't see those German tanks as main Blue/US MBT's. Hard to digest. Too bad the Abrams is the only drivable Blue tank we have.

I'm waiting on ED to give us a controllable M60 (best match for the T-55) or anything similar. And it can only be around the corner so pouring hours after hours into changing all those tanks in all missions to Leopards or whatever it is to then do that again once a proper replacement arrives? Doesn't make any sense. I'd rather keep what we already have and know instead of doing a complete change like that TWICE!

 

I'll change the air-to-air setup though. I'll keep the R3R's in F-14A missions only.

[The_Tau]

3 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

I hear you on the tanks, I just don't see those German tanks as main Blue/US MBT's. Hard to digest. Too bad the Abrams is the only drivable Blue tank we have.

I'm waiting on ED to give us a controllable M60 (best match for the T-55) or anything similar. And it can only be around the corner so pouring hours after hours into changing all those tanks in all missions to Leopards or whatever it is to then do that again once a proper replacement arrives? Doesn't make any sense. I'd rather keep what we already have and know instead of doing a complete change like that TWICE!

 

I'll change the air-to-air setup though. I'll keep the R3R's in F-14A missions only.

Well in Northern Syria, having Turkish Leo1 is not too unrealistic, or Greek Leos 1 in Cyprus, also Canada was also known for its expeditionary forces. You dont have to swap ALL the units, maybe just like 1 convoy to simulate Turkish (northen syria), Greek or Canadian platoon holding like one objective, to add a bit of variety.

[Shadow KT]

@AlpenwolfDoes the warehouse fix work ?

[NELLUS]

I think the Maverick and Vikhr is op. Both sides would be able to handle ground targets with rockets and bombs, as long as there is a small amount of heavy armoured units and no short range Sam’s. Medium to light armour will be a breeze. 
 

Mi24’s and Gazelles would play a more vital role when it comes to heavy tank hunting. 
 

A10 is powerful with the cannon, and can take out a T90 with a 1.5s burst from 0,5Nm distance, just incase the bombs miss. The SU25A has the S24/25 which hardly need an introduction. 
Viggen will do fine with the RB05 and rockets against the heavier units. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by NELLUS

[Alpenwolf]

5 minutes ago, The_Tau said:

Well in Northern Syria, having Turkish Leo1 is not too unrealistic, or Greek Leos 1 in Cyprus, also Canada was also known for its expeditionary forces. You dont have to swap ALL the units, maybe just like 1 convoy to simulate Turkish (northen syria), Greek or Canadian platoon holding like one objective, to add a bit of variety.

 

Yeah, sounds good. I'll see what I can do in the mission Behind Enemy Lines where tank battles are a major thing in the mission, which takes place at the Turkish-Syrian borders.

 

2 minutes ago, Shadow KT said:

@AlpenwolfDoes the warehouse fix work ?

 

Yes! The warehouses are fine

[Shadow KT]

6 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

Yes! The warehouses are fine

 

[Get_Lo]

3 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

I hear you on the tanks, I just don't see those German tanks as main Blue/US MBT's. Hard to digest. Too bad the Abrams is the only drivable Blue tank we have.

I'm waiting on ED to give us a controllable M60 (best match for the T-55) or anything similar. And it can only be around the corner so pouring hours after hours into changing all those tanks in all missions to Leopards or whatever it is to then do that again once a proper replacement arrives? Doesn't make any sense. I'd rather keep what we already have and know instead of doing a complete change like that TWICE!

 

I'll change the air-to-air setup though. I'll keep the R3R's in F-14A missions only.

Honest as a mainly BLUFOR player, R-60s and R3Rs are fine. I enjoy having them in my match and fighting against them adds some fun. the R3R is a huge asset to REDOFR and soon BLUFOR will have some SARH missiles of its own, from my personal experience the R3Rs should remain on all your missions, the F5 has a fantastic RWR that people should probably pay more attention to. As for R-60s, while frustrating at times I believe they are acceptable, AIM-9Ps are great missiles that have a longer range, and a fantastic uncage feature with the ability to fire the missile instantly.

For GAR-8/AIM-9B vs R3S. the R3S is far, far, far better. even the R-55 is better. for balance AIM-9P vs R-60 is okay, R-13M1 is probably a better fit performance wise but the lack of missile usage features like the F-5 has makes it harder to use (having to hold down the fire key and no uncage afaik) 
has anyone been complaining about R3Rs causing issues?

on the matter of air to ground, the A-10 is slow and vulnerable enough to where the Mavericks seem okay (maybe limit them to the double or single rack if 6 is too many?)
The viggen while VERY FUN with mavericks I can see as an issue once the Su-25T gets phased out, Rb05s are okay for most applications. If it could carry 4 this wouldnt be much of an issue lol 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Get_Lo

[Alpenwolf]

10 hours ago, Get_Lo said:

Honest as a mainly BLUFOR player, R-60s and R3Rs are fine. I enjoy having them in my match and fighting against them adds some fun. the R3R is a huge asset to REDOFR and soon BLUFOR will have some SARH missiles of its own, from my personal experience the R3Rs should remain on all your missions, the F5 has a fantastic RWR that people should probably pay more attention to. As for R-60s, while frustrating at times I believe they are acceptable, AIM-9Ps are great missiles that have a longer range, and a fantastic uncage feature with the ability to fire the missile instantly.

For GAR-8/AIM-9B vs R3S. the R3S is far, far, far better. even the R-55 is better. for balance AIM-9P vs R-60 is okay, R-13M1 is probably a better fit performance wise but the lack of missile usage features like the F-5 has makes it harder to use (having to hold down the fire key and no uncage afaik) 
has anyone been complaining about R3Rs causing issues?

on the matter of air to ground, the A-10 is slow and vulnerable enough to where the Mavericks seem okay (maybe limit them to the double or single rack if 6 is too many?)
The viggen while VERY FUN with mavericks I can see as an issue once the Su-25T gets phased out, Rb05s are okay for most applications. If it could carry 4 this wouldnt be much of an issue lol 

 

 

 

 

I'm more or less on the same page with you.

 

@All:

Thanks for the feedback, ideas and suggestions. Very much appreciated! While some are fine with the current air-to-air setup, others are not. No doubt it'll never fit everyone's way of looking at things and it's never been my goal to be honest, otherwise I'd end up trapped in a loop trying to please everyone. However, maybe it's just about time some missions received a different setup of weapons to see how players handle new challenges and situations.

 

Again, I appreciate you all, and I've always valued your posts.

God bless!

Edited May 21, 2021 by Alpenwolf

[Get_Lo]

2 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

I'm more or less on the same page with you.

 

 and hey, if they carrying 2 R3Rs, thats 2 less R-60s I have to deal with

Edited May 21, 2021 by Get_Lo

[Schmidtfire]

As for missiles:

 

R3S slightly ”improved” AIM-9B
R3R closest would be AIM-9C

R13M is close to the AIM-9G
R13M1 is close to the AIM-9J

AIM-9P is close to the AIM-9J
Rb24J = AIM-9J

Rb24 = AIM-9B

 

RS-2US beamriding missile.

R-55 same missile but IR seeker.

 

R-60 limited all aspect capability.

R-60M all aspect capability (DCS)

 

CONCLUSION

 

AIM-9P, RB-24J and R-13M1 is equally matched.

 

Rb24 and AIM-9B are equally matched. R3S is a bit better, at least in DCS.

 

 

[Get_Lo]

4 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

As for missiles:

 

R3S slightly ”improved” AIM-9B
R3R closest would be AIM-9C

R13M is close to the AIM-9G
R13M1 is close to the AIM-9J

AIM-9P is close to the AIM-9J
Rb24J = AIM-9J

Rb24 = AIM-9B

 

RS-2US beamriding missile.

R-55 same missile but IR seeker.

 

R-60 limited all aspect capability.

R-60M all aspect capability (DCS)

 

CONCLUSION

 

AIM-9P, RB-24J and R-13M1 is equally matched.

 

Rb24 and AIM-9B are equally matched. R3S is a bit better, at least in DCS.

 

 

Mostly agreed, but the R3S is so much better than the GAR-8/9B/RB24 that its crazy (in DCS, in real life you're right). it easily pulls 3 times harder and starts tracking right off the rail unlike the GAR-8. but yes your missile assessment is close.
DCS likes to say that the RB24J is an AIM-9P, but they feel a little bit worse, but good enough, way better than the RB24.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Get_Lo

[Schmidtfire]

The AIM-9B behaviour looks kind of cool. But here is the interesting part. GAR-8 (AIM-9B) was developed by Belsimtek (now ED) for use on

F-86F module. R-3S was developed by Leatherneck for MiG21bis and later put on L-39 and MiG-19P.

 

Obviously they developed the missiles in different ways and thats why there is such a difference in DCS.

Also to note is that none of the missiles fly in that classic snakelike sidewinder pattern.

 

What missile is closer to real I don’t know.

[NELLUS]

6 hours ago, Get_Lo said:

Mostly agreed, but the R3S is so much better than the GAR-8/9B/RB24 that its crazy (in DCS, in real life you're right). it easily pulls 3 times harder and starts tracking right off the rail unlike the GAR-8. but yes your missile assessment is close.
DCS likes to say that the RB24J is an AIM-9P, but they feel a little bit worse, but good enough, way better than the RB24.

 

True, the RB24 is one finicky missile, one has to be in perfect parameters for a kill.

Edited May 21, 2021 by NELLUS

[Alpenwolf]

The MiG-21 and the F-5 are and always will be the main aircraft on the server. Therefore, my concern is mostly about their missiles. Not much can be changed or done for the MiG-19 or the AJS37.

 

The mission The Tunb Identity will go online tonight and will feature the new air-to-air setup:

- R-13M1 (main missile), R3S (very limited), R3R (very limited).

- AIM-9P (main missile), AIM-9B (GAR-8) (limited), RB-24 (main missile), RB-24J (very limited).

- air-to-ground ordnance remains limited to unguided weapons as it is already the case in this mission.

- Infantries instead of BTR-80's, M113's and Humvees.

[Get_Lo]

Just now, Alpenwolf said:

The MiG-21 and the F-5 are and always will be the main aircraft on the server. Therefore, my concern is mostly about their missiles. Not much can be changed or done for the MiG-19 or the AJS37.

 

The mission The Tunb Identity will go online tonight and will feature the new air-to-air setup:

- R-13M1 (main missile), R3S (very limited), R3R (very limited).

- AIM-9P (main missile), AIM-9B (GAR-8) (limited), RB-24 (main missile), RB-24J (very limited).

- air-to-ground ordnance remains limited to unguided weapons as it is already the case in this mission.

- Infantries instead of BTR-80's, M113's and Humvees.

How many Rb24Js are we talking about here? suppose its not too bad since the viggen can attack ships on the mission

[NELLUS]

Great work Alpenwolf on The Tunb Identity mission. Was ton of fun tonight 

 

Would there be a possibility to put out one or two Seawise giant tankers for the Hilo’s to rest on incase they get jumped on the way to the islands?  

Edited May 21, 2021 by NELLUS

[Alpenwolf]

36 minutes ago, NELLUS said:

Great work Alpenwolf on The Tunb Identity mission. Was ton of fun tonight 

 

Would there be a possibility to put out one or two Seawise giant tankers for the Hilo’s to rest on incase they get jumped on the way to the islands?  

 

 

Good to hear. How many players were there? Any fancy screenshots from you maybe?

 

I thought about adding such ships actually. The problem is, they'd become top priority targets for many players, especially Viggen pilots.

[BonerCat]

There is no real counterpart to the viggen's anti-ship role on redfor, which means it's either only an objective for blue, or reds have a much harder time
With the Rb-04, it's essentially, get in range, make sure switches are right, fire, and its done. You can do whatever you want. Onboard guidance will do the rest.
The closest thing reds have to that is Kh-29T on the Froggy T, except it's fundamentally totally different

Rb-04 has an onboard active radar, which is used for target acquisition and guidance, and is sea skimming. It is a dedicated anti-ship missile after all
Kh-29T has an onboard camera, which when slaved to the froggy's TV camera, can also guide autonomously after launch. It lofts a bit and then goes straight for the target

Finally, the Viggen can actually fight or run if it has to
Froggy has a chance in a fight, if it drops the stores, but it's no runner

Reds would probably prefer using the Grom instead, as the 21 can fight and run, which is a vastly inferior missile (for this task in particular)
I guess you could use the Rb-05 instead, which is far more similar to the Grom, but to have a viggen do anti ship without it's dedicated anti ship missiles just doesnt feel right...

While i wish viggens had more ship targets on this server, i understand why it's difficult to set up in a somewhat balanced way.

[NELLUS]

9 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Good to hear. How many players were there? Any fancy screenshots from you maybe?

 

I would have liked to, but I’m currently in Riga which is about 4000km from my PC. This laptop works well for GCi ops only. 
 

There were 16 Red and 6 Blue at a stage, it then moved towards 13 Red and 8 Blue. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by NELLUS

[Alpenwolf]

2 hours ago, NELLUS said:

I would have liked to, but I’m currently in Riga which is about 4000km from my PC. This laptop works well for GCi ops only. 
 

There were 16 Red and 6 Blue at a stage, it then moved towards 13 Red and 8 Blue. 

 

 

Good numbers.

There is a reason why it's 12 x MiG-21 vs 12 x F-5's and only 2 x MiG-19's vs 2 x AJS37's. The helicopters have a hard time crossing the open waters so I had to keep things even more limited. 8 x MiG-21's vs 8 x F-5's was my initial thought and I might go back to it. On the other hand the mission Two Towns runs prior to The Tunb Identity. And in Two Towns we often have 30 or even 40+ players so it would render many players without an aircraft to fly.

[NELLUS]

5 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Good numbers.

There is a reason why it's 12 x MiG-21 vs 12 x F-5's and only 2 x MiG-19's vs 2 x AJS37's. The helicopters have a hard time crossing the open waters so I had to keep things even more limited. 8 x MiG-21's vs 8 x F-5's was my initial thought and I might go back to it. On the other hand the mission Two Towns runs prior to The Tunb Identity. And in Two Towns we often have 30 or even 40+ players so it would render many players without an aircraft to fly.

Maybe a lower patchy/broken cloud layer would give the hilos an additional coverage from the fighters. We had to work hand in hand with the Hawk sites/few fighters to make the Hilo crossing a possibility. 

[CrazyGman]

Can we get some air defenses at Nalchik and Krasnodar for Red and blue on the open range mission? Just took the 40minutes to fly all the way there, only to have a F-5 pick me out of the sky right as I was hovering over Nalchik. and there is nothing there to engage him, so basically he can just park himself there and there is no way to engage him, and since he's so far behind our lines, and the early warning radar so far forward, no way to detect him.

 

EDIT:

Oh it's even worse. Sekhmet landed at the airfield, and waited for me to arrive, to conserve fuel, and remain undetected, he then took off and shot me down

Edited May 22, 2021 by CrazyGman