Right pull on trap?

[Nealius]

I'm having some trouble tracking centerline on the carrier when I trap. With the VV aligned in the crotch of the ship I'm never aligned with the centerline; I'm usually to the left. Once I grab a wire, I noticed the jet then pulls right, towards the crotch of the ship.

 

On one hand, it kinda makes sense because I'm "aiming" for the crotch of the ship....but if I'm aiming for the crotch of the ship how do I track centerline...which isn't in the direction of the crotch?

Edited June 10, 2018 by Nealius

[David OC]

If you are doing a proper pattern and rolling out into the groove to early? I've been doing this and rolling out close to the carrier direction Doh... Ease up on the turn in, I'm trying also.... :helpsmilie:

 

You should be well past the wake of the ship. Here's what the picture should look like after the turn in. Notice the correction of bank while in this turn also, he ended up overshooting just a little. Still way better than most of my grooves.

 

 

.

Edited June 10, 2018 by David OC

[Nealius]

I've been practicing with the Stinger's LSO mission. If I properly hit the LSO triggers I end up rolling out right at or shortly after LSO calls "three quarters of a mile, call the ball."

 

I feel like I'm rolling out too early, and too close, but following the triggers on their mission I almost have to. If I delay my groove turn at all after the paddles call, they kick me out of the pattern.

 

I'll see if I can get some HUD videos up today.

[pimp]

Could there be wind involved? Are you uncaging your HUD once you're in the groove? You might be aligning the wrong VV.

[Nealius]

Uncaging the HUD on rollout. Happens without wind and with wind. In the case of having wind, it's a straight headwind. No crosswind.

 

EDIT: Maybe I'm criticizing my traps a bit too much. I just checked AEW's Ball-flying refesher video and my alignment is about the same as his; same right pull after grabbing a wire too.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Nealius

[FZG_Immel]

Don't put your vv at the back of the ship. Put it and maintain it at the top right corner of the landing strip.

 

Like this in my final

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by FZG_Immel

[David OC]

Check out this close call I had to a inflight Engagement:D

 

No problems with the line up. I really thought I was going to bolter here.

 

I was coming in hard so put the burner on early to wave off.

 

[Nealius]

Put it and maintain it at the top right corner of the landing strip.

 

Yes, the crotch of the ship....which I'm already doing.

[Jar_VFA-113]

I've been practicing with the Stinger's LSO mission. If I properly hit the LSO triggers I end up rolling out right at or shortly after LSO calls "three quarters of a mile, call the ball."

 

I feel like I'm rolling out too early, and too close, but following the triggers on their mission I almost have to. If I delay my groove turn at all after the paddles call, they kick me out of the pattern.

 

I'll see if I can get some HUD videos up today.

 

Hi Nealius, please feel free to drop by our teamspeak if you’d like some help. This mission is verified by a current US Navy F/A-18 pilot.

“Paddles Contact” in this mission means you should be turning NOW. Don’t delay, it doesn’t make it easier.

You should roll wings level on final approach just before you hear “3/4 mile...”.

If you are correctly onspeed your time in the groove will be 15-18 seconds as per NATOPS. If you are spending 20 seconds plus on final approach this is considered Long In the Groove and a hazard to the rest of the flight behind you.

 

I aim to cross the ships wake just at the point where it’s disappearing (roughly 1nm). I’m looking for 300 feet just as I’m rolling wings level lined up with the centerline as I know this will be roughly a good meatball.

 

Our new video shows the time on approach in the mission plus an epic “pull to the right” which is definetly pilot error :D:

9K8VMcSaAoY

Edited June 10, 2018 by JAR VFA-113 STINGERS

[Nealius]

What's your typical bank angle when turning in the groove? Something makes me feel like I'm way too close to the ship laterally when I get "paddles," despite following the prescribed 3.5G break with speadbrake out (unless I'm misunderstanding the break procedures).

[David OC]

What's your typical bank angle when turning in the groove? Something makes me feel like I'm way too close to the ship laterally when I get "paddles," despite following the prescribed 3.5G break with speadbrake out (unless I'm misunderstanding the break procedures).

 

Around 30 degrees, adjust on the 90 to suit, that takes practice. You should be around 1.3 miles when abeam the ship on the downwind, check you tacan in hud, only when directly abeam before your about to turn in, this will also change your bank. It's not set in stone you need to dynamically adjust as you go, if out then adjust to hit the 90 at 500 feet, that go's for all the points in the pattern. Hopefully eventually you just know your out of position. Still if you stop flying for a bit it will take practice to get it back. :) so much fun isn't it!:D

Edited June 10, 2018 by David OC

[Jar_VFA-113]

^^ great advice.

It depends on abeam distance, aircraft weight, your airspeed, bank angle and on and on. It’s a true art form and extremely rewarding when you nail a good start.

[Nealius]

It must be my break that's messing things up. Following the prescribed 3.5G with speedbrakes out, I don't hit gear-down speed until about 20-30° prior to downwind heading. Upon rolling out downwind, I'm typically 0.9nm to 1.0nm abeam. I'm guessing I should relax my G to widen my break turn out to get that 1.3nm.

[Ski01]

I use throttle idle in the break - that gets below 250 near 90 on the break

[Nealius]

No speedbrake? I know in other jets I've never had to use it when going to idle in the break. I'm just worried the slow speed in the turn will put my turn radius tight enough to be too close on the downwind.

[Jack McCoy]

It must be my break that's messing things up. Following the prescribed 3.5G with speedbrakes out, I don't hit gear-down speed until about 20-30° prior to downwind heading. Upon rolling out downwind, I'm typically 0.9nm to 1.0nm abeam. I'm guessing I should relax my G to widen my break turn out to get that 1.3nm.

Yes, gradually relax the turn.

 

Review Wags tutorial video: rule-of-thumb in the break, G should be 1% of current airspeed: 350kts -> 3.5g, 300kts -> 3.0g, etc.

[fmedges]

The thing I struggle with the most is the abeam distance and therefore my 27 to 30 degree bank angle behind the ship. I adjust the angle at the 90 but sometimes I still overshoot.

[umkhunto]

With the VV aligned in the crotch of the ship

 

Do not align VV to the notch. Do not spot the deck. Just fly the ball and monitor AoA, and keep aligned with peripheral vision. If you spot the crotch/notch/deck you will chase the deck and be off glide slope. Believe in the ball.

[umkhunto]

The thing I struggle with the most is the abeam distance and therefore my 27 to 30 degree bank angle behind the ship. I adjust the angle at the 90 but sometimes I still overshoot.

 

Just keep practicing and remember where you start your turn for the 90. Also try to keep your downwind the same distance from the ship and adjust bank accordingly. If you're close your will overshoot and be right, if you're further you will undershoot and be left. Adjust your next turn in start based on that. (This is all provided you keep an AoB of 30 deg.)

 

It has taken me a lot of practice, and I still suck at it, but my line up is improving. I find If I'm 1.1mi from the CV, and I start a 30deg bank at the LSO station, I tend to line up on the money.

Edited June 11, 2018 by umkhunto

[Nealius]

Yes, gradually relax the turn.

 

Review Wags tutorial video: rule-of-thumb in the break, G should be 1% of current airspeed: 350kts -> 3.5g, 300kts -> 3.0g, etc.

 

Oh so that’s what they mean. All of the written/video material I’ve seen never bothers explaining that it’s not a constant G all the way through the turn.

[fmedges]

Thanks for the tips. Nailed a few in a row tonight.

[Nealius]

Quick question: Should downwind heading be the reciprocal of BRC or should it be offset?

 

I also think I figured out my right pull issue. My nose is crabbed into the wind, which would be right towards the BRC. So when I touch down my nose isn't straight.

[ttaylor0024]

Land on centerline and you won’t get the pull. VV in the crotch is only gouge you should be using for the start power correction, if that. You’re flying the call not VV.

 

Downwind heading is opposite BRC.

 

Hi Nealius, please feel free to drop by our teamspeak if you’d like some help. This mission is verified by a current US Navy F/A-18 pilot.

“Paddles Contact” in this mission means you should be turning NOW. Don’t delay, it doesn’t make it easier.

You should roll wings level on final approach just before you hear “3/4 mile...”.

If you are correctly onspeed your time in the groove will be 15-18 seconds as per NATOPS. If you are spending 20 seconds plus on final approach this is considered Long In the Groove and a hazard to the rest of the flight behind you.

 

None of the calls are standard, besides a roger ball call after you call it on your own. A “180” text appearing or something to that effect would be better for training, you won’t hear “paddles contact” or the LSO calling you to call the ball. These calls will just make comms annoying when the LSO stations come out.

Edited June 12, 2018 by ttaylor0024

[Nealius]

After hitting some #3 and #4 wires tonight, I've noticed that I have a very hard time lining up on centerline because the craft drifts to the left for some reason--as if pushed by a crosswind. Thing is, I have no crosswind in the mission. Only a 10kt headwind across the BRC.

 

I almost have to put the VV on the #2 cat blast shield and kick a little rudder or add ~2° AOB to stay aligned. Is rudder usage okay in the Hornet? I (possibly negatively) trained myself to not use rudder on fly-by-wire jets in BMS.

[majapahit]

Most examples above describe 'turning into the groove from downwind leg’' which is somewhat ideal but overlooks to mention crosswind.

 

When I practice 'straight in' from my own edited saved mission which puts me a couple of miles out at 1000ft (when time is in short supply),

 

the carrier is sailing 000 straight into the wind, the landing strip though is offset about 10 degrees,

 

so, you're landing in a crosswind, where you compensate for the relative resulting (and somewhat variable) crosswind angle of prevailing wind, boat speed and aircraft speed, which is 10-15 nearing maybe 20 degrees varying with the gusts.

 

You have to compensate for this crosswind

(and there is a lee behind the tower perhaps).

 

That is why still at distance from the carrier my reference target is the carrier tower for height and distance and where I want my velocity vector to end up when I can actually know where the groove is (when one can see the full length of the landing strip),

 

where, depending on how you deal with cross landings, I let myself slide from upwind to exactly before the carrier threshold where this shifts to the textbook 'crotch' of the carrier which is where landing strip top right side meets the port side of the ship (rudder, a tad of roll, and necessary throttle).

 

So, when ‘turning in from the leeway side’ from downwind leg,

either your hit the spot perfectly (like you see in these perfect Youtube landings)

 

OR when not sure, prefer to be a tad upwind, or at least consider there's wind force coming from your right side.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by majapahit