Lockon Operation Red Flag/Combined Air Exercise

[S77th-ReOrdain]

Big thanks to 159th-Fudd and all Red Flag 2 organizers (S77th-Goya and 3Sqn-Fudd) and everyone else who participated and contributed.

[4c САВО СРПСКИ]

159th_Fudd >

 

thank you for organizing such an event, and thanks to all others who participated and helped you!

 

First red flag for us =4c=, we're totally impressed by the quality in the organization and in the inter-squad communication - GREAT EXPERIENCE!!!

 

watching the the big formation of fighters in the first wave (Savages & Pirates ) as we were taxing to the runaway.... pfffffff... we were in total immersion!

 

We did good, could do much better and we will next time.

 

thank you all, can't wait the next one!

 

[Black_Hawk]

Anyone got some screenshots of it? :)

[redeagleGER]

Ok Cali u owe me an explenation. Why the hell do u shoot from distance of 50clicks (to the closest bandit) when u KNOW eagle and cobra are there. If it would be a ballistic aim120 ok but this is unnessecary! :chair:

 

Anyway what is the point calculation now? Blue won probably? :(

[Fudd]

Anyway what is the point calculation now? Blue won probably? :(

 

There is no point in speculating. I will post the results as soon as I have them calculated.

 

S!

[S77th-GOYA]

Anyone got some screenshots of it? :)

 

MESSAGE FOR YOU, SIR!

 

 

 

 

Compliments of S77th-Highway. S!

[S77th-GOYA]

Redeagle I just looked at the track and I was heading 297 and the 120 turns to 331 which was where you were at. I had the bandit lock at 297 and when it came off the rail it headed straight towards 331 (strange, I have the track on our forums, it's the view from inside my cockpit)

 

So why did the missile turn to 331, I don't know, but I know I was heading 297 and had a bandit locked.

 

The missile heading to 331 isn't strange at all because that's where I was. You fired at me from 26nm while I was chasing Redeagle. I broke lock going defensive from a different shot and you hit the friendly.

[S77th-GOYA]

Goya, did you have jammers on?

 

No. This was your shot:

 

[Kuky]

Anyone got some screenshots of it? :)

 

We agreed no one taking any screenshots or using ECM macro before the start of the mission so if we complied to this there should be no screenshots, unless someone ran a recorded track and made screenshots from there...

 

I hope all confirm with this rule of not taking any screenshots with the mission itself as we don't want any lag/etc :book:

 

I think RedFlag was very hard on the RedFor from the begining... we were lower in numbers of fighters... quite a few did not show up... some had tech difficulties and had to leave soon after mission start... and some even left for personal reasons.

 

We did make one tactical error (which I will not say what it was :D) which costed us valuable time and few fighters... next one will be better I am sure... but then again we are to learn from this...

[159th_Fusion]

I certainly didn't see any evidence of people printscreening so I think everyone must have behaved themselves, which is testiment to the calibre of people we have flying the Red Flag missions!!

 

S!

[X-man]

We agreed no one taking any screenshots or using ECM macro before the start of the mission so if we complied to this there should be no screenshots, unless someone ran a recorded track and made screenshots from there...

 

I hope all confirm with this rule of not taking any screenshots with the mission itself as we don't want any lag/etc :book:

Obviosly GOYA didnt take any screenies from Cali's cockpit during the mission :thumbup: I only saw warp twice, and both were on route to wpt....

 

And about tactical errors, I think we might have lost a couple of plane in the beginning due to it, BUT looking at the ACMI (at +1:15) REDFOR had Air supriority all the way to kerch (where there were only BLUEFOR Bombers) :doh: so I just think it was a matter of Fighters not passing on that information to the bombers.

 

Let's have better comms next time around :smilewink:

[redeagleGER]

Goya, did you have jammers on?

 

RedEagle you didn't get a warning?

 

I had warning from the amrams behind me.

My accusations stays. Launching from 50 km with a aim120 is waste of missile (and dangerous as u can see) like every shoot one make directly after launch authorization.

Anyway excusation excepted. Lets learn from it.

 

Thx to Fudd for the good server performance this time, did work very well for all as i could see.

[159th_Fusion]

X-Man.

 

I will happily stick my hand up to that one. Our flight was CAP at that time I think.

I will admit my noobness here, I was having difficulty building SA to work out if the FEBA was safe. I was seeing so many hostiles on my radar it overwhelmed me and was very unsure about calling in SW for fear of getting them all shot down straight away.

 

Obviously something I recognise as something I need to work on before the next mission. My apologies to all Redfor if this turns out to be the main reason we lost (if we lost).

[Frostie]

Obviously something I recognise as something I need to work on before the next mission. My apologies to all Redfor if this turns out to be the main reason we lost (if we lost).

I wouldn't expect the blame to fall on one squad let alone one man if we did lose , its all in the name of training , fun and valuable experience.

RedFor and BlueFor performed exceptional and 159th did a great job pushing BlueFor to Kerch , I just think the mix up call about eveybody taking off for BlueFor set up advatage points during the exercise to occur for each side.

 

Thanx Fudd this is a truly great idea and the interest in LOMAC can only increase.:thumbup:

[Kuky]

It's alright... we learned from it. Not even 1min before SW called FEBA clear Devil SF dropped ordnance after loitering around 100km from target area, we decided we had to RTB as we were still getting nails from FEBA area and on occasions were even spiked (locked) by fighters. Our fuel was getting low and we considered area still very hostile... if only we knew it wasn't so.

 

See funny thing is... before we dumped all weapons I said to my flight (Devil SF) to drop outter 2 pylons only, on which we has 2xUnguided rockets and 2xKh-25MPU (as there was absolutely no indication of SAM's) and keep 2x Kh-25TV and 2xKh-25ML thinking to keep them just in case (this was just about 1-2min before FEBA was called in clear). Then Rugg says he want's to dump them all as we won't need them on our way to base... so we did... not even 1min later FEBA was called clear... what a feeling we had right then... (#$@%*#*!!) :D

[X-man]

As Frostie said, noone alone is to blame for this, I can say on my part, I did not communicate with the Bombers that much either. Im sure if we would have had some better planning between BW and FW we would have had a better result. FW did a pretty good job IMO but we didnt relay the situation to the bombers....Lets have even better planning next time!

[RvEYoda]

No. This was your shot:

 

 

Do you know how to playback the track from someone elses cockpit than your own? (I'm guessing that this might have been Cali's track and thats how you took this screenshot - But I really want to know anyway!)

 

Please if someone knows tell me.

 

I tried unlocking 'everything' in LOTU but I dont know how to use F1-view inside all planes.

[RvEYoda]

Chill both of you. Cali shot in a situation where he might not should have(that friendly close to his target is visible) but he certainly does not need to be jumped for it. It's nice to see we've had ONLY one teamkill on red during the entire red flag. Let's be a bit more civil.

 

50km is generally NOT a waste of a 120, But I would say with the DLZ in the picture above that 120 had about 5% chance of hitting.

I have had HOJ amraam kills from 45 nm once.

 

 

With the current lomac amraam programming I'd say true missile max range is about 5-10% shorter than DLZ rmax is displayed, and NEZ marker needs to be cut by 20%. If you slapped the r-77 onto the eagle and used the amraam dlz, then it might be correct.

[claycephus]

I saw X-man mention the ACMI track. Could we get a link to that? Also, how did you get this ACMI track? I tried opening mine after the mission, but it was blank. Did you get it by playing back the LockOn track?

[Jester_159th]

I saw X-man mention the ACMI track. Could we get a link to that?

 

Check Guard's and Yoda's posts in the following thread:

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=23851

[S77th-GOYA]

Do you know how to playback the track from someone elses cockpit than your own? (I'm guessing that this might have been Cali's track and thats how you took this screenshot - But I really want to know anyway!)

 

Please if someone knows tell me.

 

I tried unlocking 'everything' in LOTU but I dont know how to use F1-view inside all planes.

 

That screenshot was only possible because it was taken from watching Cali's track. There is no way to get cockpit views from any a/c where the pilot wasn't the one recording the track.

[X-man]

I saw X-man mention the ACMI track. Could we get a link to that? Also, how did you get this ACMI track? I tried opening mine after the mission, but it was blank. Did you get it by playing back the LockOn track?

Yeah, I just played back Cali's track at 3x speed (1 hour) and thats it. My ACMI file was about 100mb.

[S77th-GOYA]

Clay, make sure you have lua export enabled and have the record button on in tacview. It's also a good idea to make sure you have the newest version of tacview. 0.90

[Fudd]

LOCERF 07-2 MISSION SCORING AND DEBRIEF

 

Trying to score this mission was extremely difficult. The tacview files that were posted were not complete and I thank God that I took notes during the mission. I also took screenshots of the menu at the end to back up the notes I took. I had hoped the tacview would support the inital findings but it did not.

Due to scoring difficulty and other reasons I am going to change the way the mission is scored and I will get into that after I go over the point totals.

BLUEFOR

Total Losses

Air to Air: 12 and 1 tk

SAM/AAA: 7

POW/MIA: 1 (JaBoG Calli landing at Anapa)

Friendly Fire Incidents

Air to Air: Kiljun kill Yambo

Air to Ground: Stalker kill M-2

Objectives

Objective 1: 100% completed

Objective 2: 0% completed

Objective 3: 0% completed

Total Air to Air kills

Fighters: 7

Strike: 4

Missiles (Scored as one point per miss)

Fired: 121

Hits: 13

Misses: 118

 

Calculations:

+ 500 Objective 1

+ 30(7) Fighter A/C killed

+ 40(4) Strike A/C killed

--------------------------

+ 870

- 50(21) Combat Losses

- 100(2) Friendly Fire Incidents

- 118 Missiles Missed.

----------------------------

- 498 TOTAL POINTS

REDFOR

 

Total Losses

Air to Air: 11 and 1 tk

SAM/AAA: 0

POW: 0

 

Friendly Fire Incidents

Air to Air: Cali kill Readeagle

 

Objectives

Objective 1: 0% completed

Objective 2: 100% completed

Objective 3: 0% completed

Total Air to Air kills

Fighters: 9

Strike: 3

Missiles (Scored as one point per miss)

Fired: 110

Hits: 17

Misses: 93

 

Calculations:

+ 500 Objective 1

+ 30(9) Fighter A/C killed

+ 40(3) Strike A/C killed

--------------------------

+ 890

- 50(12) Combat Losses

- 100 Friendly Fire Incidents

- 93 Missiles Missed.

----------------------------

+ 97 TOTAL POINTS: VICTOR LOCERF 07-2 CONGRATULATIONS

[Fudd]

I am going to add an MIA portion to the scoring. If you drop out, crash your plane, go swiming in the sea, whatever, I will start counting that as a loss and 50 points will be deducted. What I will do is count those present at the end of the mission and use that to make the determination.

 

There were many MIA's at the end of the mission on REDFOR. I know a few had connection issues, several didnt show etc. It was hard to keep track when only 12 REDFOR aircraft were actually downed by a missile and by what was defined as a combat loss.

 

Scoring for the missles: Obviously if I had subtracted 10 points per missle that missed its target, both REDFOR and BLUEFOR would have negative point totals. Due to the modeling of missles in lockon, I have decided to score the missles differently in the future. I will take a ratio of the amount of missles missed to total missles fired.

 

If the teams ratio is above 60% they will be awarded 200 points.

40% to 60% will be awarded 100 points.

20% to 40% will be awarded no points.

below 20% will have 100 points deducted.

 

Congrats to all who participated.

 

I have a long list of suggestions for the next redflag. I will go over it when I create a post for LOCERF 07-3.

 

S! ALL

 

159th_Fudd