In Flight Refueling. Dying of frustration.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Trying, trying,X 5. Can't do it! Not to be negative d-bag about it, but I do not think I'll be able ever .

Couple of control ability problems.

 

After setting switches;

Probe OUT

AFC ON

ALT HOLD ON

Flaps CRUISE

 

Speed: tanker moves at 235 IAS. This the training short mission. I am unable to hold constant speed. A/C is either accelerating slightly or decelerating. There is no throttle setting that hold speed.

 

AFC and ALT HOLD keep kicking OFF by themselves as soon as I make a slightest correction.

 

Tanker and basket move up/down. I am unable to hold formation with tanker, and forget the basket. I cannot tell if its me or if its the tanker.

 

Probe is so far out of peripheral vision on screen, that I have shift view head and/or turn , I cannot see HUD . AR Light ark does remain in view READY ON Left /Right flashing. Once probe passes basket, Tanker calls BREAKAWAY.

 

I just don't understand the technique.

How are we supposed to do this?

[NORTHMAN]

Well, clearly you are not alone! I think it's the hardest thing to do in DCS. In he Harrier it's even worst for the obvious reason you mentioned. I am not sure if I will ever be able to do it. I still have trouble with the F/A-18. Maybe if you make your own custom mission with a steady straight flying tanker it could help...

[JLX]

Trying, trying,X 5. Can't do it! Not to be negative d-bag about it, but I do not think I'll be able ever .

Couple of control ability problems.

 

After setting switches;

Probe OUT

AFC ON

ALT HOLD ON

Flaps CRUISE

 

Speed: tanker moves at 235 IAS. This the training short mission. I am unable to hold constant speed. A/C is either accelerating slightly or decelerating. There is no throttle setting that hold speed.

 

AFC and ALT HOLD keep kicking OFF by themselves as soon as I make a slightest correction.

 

Tanker and basket move up/down. I am unable to hold formation with tanker, and forget the basket. I cannot tell if its me or if its the tanker.

 

Probe is so far out of peripheral vision on screen, that I have shift view head and/or turn , I cannot see HUD . AR Light ark does remain in view READY ON Left /Right flashing. Once probe passes basket, Tanker calls BREAKAWAY.

 

I just don't understand the technique.

How are we supposed to do this?

 

It's hard but doable. Just takes a lot of practice/patience!

 

I use AFC to set my initial trim as I get into formation. Once that's done I ignore it and everything is manual from that point forward. I don't use curves in my profile but you may find that helps.

 

For my default view, I line the center of the HUD with the left edge of the propeller, and the top of the HUD glass with the bottom of the propeller. Creep up very slow and keep fumbling around like a teenage boy until you stick the landing. Look at the propeller (or whatever you choose as a reference), NOT the basket.

 

I never turn my head to look at the probe as the change in perspective totally throws me off. Once you do it a few times, just get used to how the probe position looks as it passes out of your peropheral view on a good connect. I started to be able to judge a good approach from this even before connecting.

 

As to maintaining speed, I have an old CH throttle and have to constantly rock it slightly fwd/back to hold constant speed/ formation. I consider this normal. If I'm coming in too fast, a very quick shot of air brakes does the trick.

 

There is no magic here. It just takes a lot of trial and error. But it's very satisfying once you can pull it off!

 

Good luck!

 

Sent from my MediaPad using Tapatalk

[Nealius]

Refueling in the Harrier isn't too bad for me. It's easiest if you have the KC130 set at 18,000 feet and 333kts in the ME (about 245KCAS in flight). Here's my technique:

 

-Flaps CRUISE (this should be first; flaps AUTO will really mess you up)

-Probe out

-Trim pitch until you're comfy

-Line up your VV between the refueling pod and the propeller of the left-most engine; VV lined up with the left-most edge of those propellers seems best for me

-Slowly fly the basket through the refuel lights indicator box on the top left of the canopy frame

-NEVER LOOK AT THE BASKET, especially once it moves past the canopy. Focus on staying aligned with that point between the refueling pod and the left engine.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Its worse everytime, and its different problems every time. But it comes to unsteady speed, pre=contact position hold, and flying into the basket. Once the basket is out of peripheral vision and, it becomes impossible , that is impossible for me. I zoom out as much as I can, but no zoom level helps. I recall in another simulator, with flying boom tanking. You follow director lights and boom just goes in, as it is guided by AI., and there is a reference on HUD. I don't any kind of HUD ref. Except AR light arc telling you left or right. What I don't understand is speed instability.Regardless of how gentle, almost pressure, I move throttle, A/C will not hold speed. Either its accelerating or decelerating. I am chasing the speed rabitt. Tanker and basket UP/Down motion is confusing to me. I am holding steady altitude, but tanker and basket just dance up and down by large amount. I do not know how to correct that. AFC and ALT HOLD should help to steady A/C while pilot is making small corrections. But AFC and ALT HOLD just pop OFF by themselves. There is AOA limit of 13, and bank limit of unclear but small number. But no matter how tiny my correction is AFC and ALT turn themselves OFF.

THe final straw is that looking left to watch basket and probe distorts view and Makes control impossible, without peripheral vision, I just don't see how to make contact is possible in DCS. I don't have VR or TrackIR.

By now ten tries and I have no clue, every attempt is worse then previous.

Why are AFC and ALT kick off?

[jojo]

Very good tutorial by Maverick:

 

 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

As interesting as this tut is, it is not helping. Trim is trim, but speedis still unstable, andI get no connection, just BRAKEAWAY calls.

[Nealius]

Ignore the breakaway calls, they're bugged. As for the unstable speed, what aircraft are you trying to refuel from? The KC130's speed is never unstable in my missions.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Speed instability is on my end, with AV-8B. I am unable to have the aircraft maintain constant speed. It is either accel or in decell. No matter how fine my throttle work is. I am other closing with KC-130 or I am falling behind. As I said before, if probe goes in front of basket, I receive BRAKEAWAY call from tanker.

[Angus]

if it can help you with your too sensitive throtle , try with the airbrake extended .

 

Refueling with all planes requires patience and practice . Look at the tutorial video .

Once behind the tanker . Fly with him in closed formation while a few minutes to try trimming your plane correctly .

then , try to refuel .

You don't need AFC help . its makeable without that .

 

PS: waht's your curves setting on your HOTAS ?

[Nealius]

Maintaining a consistent speed in formation really isn't possible. You are always going to be making frequent, minor throttle adjustments the entire time.

[Coxy_99]

Maybe there should be an easy mode, Im joking practice thats it.

[Kula66]

I think this is the easy mode ... they're working on the advanced mode :(

[JLX]

Once the basket is out of peripheral vision and, it becomes impossible , that is impossible for me. I zoom out as much as I can, but no zoom level helps.

…

THe final straw is that looking left to watch basket and probe distorts view and Makes control impossible, without peripheral vision, I just don't see how to make contact is possible in DCS. I don't have VR or TrackIR.

 

I understand the problem with not seeing the basket. If you don't look at it, how are you supposed to know how to correct your approach?

 

What I did was bind a joystick button to "rear arcade view" (Shift-F4 IIRC) and another to jump back to cockpit (F1) view. Then, keep looking at the plane, once again NOT at the basket. However, when you miss, quickly switch to the outside rear view to see HOW you missed. Too low? Too far? Then quickly flip back to your cockpit view to see what that position looks like from the seat. This way you have an idea of what to correct for your next run.

 

What I don't understand is speed instability.Regardless of how gentle, almost pressure, I move throttle, A/C will not hold speed. Either its accelerating or decelerating. I am chasing the speed rabitt.

…

AFC and ALT HOLD should help to steady A/C while pilot is making small corrections. But AFC and ALT HOLD just pop OFF by themselves.

 

It sounds to me like you are trying to set the throttle at a single "correct" position to hold speed with the tanker. This doesn't work in my experience. You must CONSTANTLY adjust. If you've flown helos it's like maintaining a hover - the stick never stops moving. In this case neither does the throttle. You DO "chase the speed rabbit"! Just try to to anticipate a bit as you're making very small corrections and don't stop.

 

By now ten tries and I have no clue, every attempt is worse then previous.

 

10 times is nothing. Perhaps adjust your expectations? It definitely requires patience and persistence.

 

On the upside it makes it even more satisfying once you do nail it.

 

Once again, good luck!

 

Sent from my MediaPad using Tapatalk

[Tricky11]

Ok never ever use afc or alt hold.... always get your aircraft trimmed to fly level at the tanker set speed. Make sure flaps are set to cruise. Make sure you get you altitude correct first and the drive into the basket. Ignore the breakaway calls. And don't chase the basket. If you have to start adjusting your altitude when near the basket just drop back and reset yourself again. I promise that once you start getting it all becomes real easy. Ohhh and another tip is to adjust curve on your stick so it's not so sensitive around the hands off position.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I am doing all of that. Trim, but I do use AFC and ALT HOLD if KC-130 is not in bank. But without seeing basket and probe from inside cockpit, there is no way to plug-in. I don't even understand how this is implemented.

[Angus]

Take a look at the 104th maverick AAR tutorial .

you don't need to see the basket . takes the landmarks like in this video . on the tanker you have a green light to give you an idea of your position . don't remember how it's work exactly .

flashing you are not in position , steady your in correct position , off you taking fuel . maybe i m wrong but it's the general idea .

 

On the F15C the probe is left behind the cockpit and you dont turn your head to see where you are .... if you make that , your plane go anywhere .

you must fly with landmarks on the tanker .

 

Keep calm , stay cold , make sure you are on the landmarks , try and try again !

When you miss , return to step 1 , trim your plane , and try again .

when you are contact , try to keep one or two knots faster the tanker to keep the basket on your probe .

 

We all have difficulties with AAR , just one solution : Practice !

[Johnny Dioxin]

Don't keep going if you're getting frustrated. Have a break. Go and blow something up - have a round of ArmA or whatever else you play for a change - then try again later.

 

In my experience, the more frustrated you get, the less likely you are to succeed.

 

Talking of mindset - think positive, dude! :) I know it's easier said than done, but if you start out thinking you will fail, guess what?

[Tricky11]

Well if you insist on using alt hold and afc there is no helping you. I had people on our server on their second day of flying plugging up to the basket and none of them use afc or alt hold..... I don't understand how you think that helps having them enabled? By having them enabled you are already fighting the afc and alt hold before even thinking about getting plugged in...

[Tricky11]

Ohhh and another thing.... you don't look at your wheels when you are landing do you? Same thing......practice practice practice.... you will get it.... and if you don't I tell you what I will do........ I will run a one on one with you on our server for a hour sometime...

[Marsvinet]

I second that AFC ruins more than it helps. One thing that can help is to remember how the aircraft pitches up and down when you raise and lower throttle. I don't remember which way it is, it's just muscle memory at this point. But keep in mind that your pitch changes with throttle changes. At lower speeds atleast. Kinda like a helicopter.

[Nealius]

The only time I ever use AFC is when I need to go head-down to flip the refuel probe switch.

[Baldawg]

AFC is not part of the checklist for refueling. Just like flying in formation its gonna take practice. All of the tutorials that those before have listed should give you some good insight on how to get thr probe in the basket. Don't give up.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

According to training mission AFC ON is part of the precontact checklist.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Got it! For a blessed 15-20 seconds (or so it seemed) I was in words of flying Texaco "Taking On Fuel". However prior to successfull contact the basket and/or its cable was inside the cockpit. Right in front of my face. How come there is no collision detection?

 

Golden Sight Picture

Top of HUD glass bisecting fuel pod.

Waypoint fixed caret with imaginery vertical line passing through it, center between fuel pod and prop edge.

Also refueling speed 249-250 knots, not 245 as stated in mission brief/kneeboard. At 247 I fall behind.

It appears to me that basket is magnetic. That is long probe is in some permissible distance from basket 'female' plug, the basket snaps to probe.