Avoid swaying on near-hover

[BrzI]

Once I get below 30 knots I very often get into swaying (left and right) that gets worse and worse. I am unable to control my way out of it. The only option is to throttle up for a failed approach and go around for another attempt.

I am amazed when I see people hovering and making small corrections at 0 speed. I have tried my times - even after takeoff I immediately build speed in one direction or another. Yes, I have tried 81,82,83 and 84 degrees but I can never hover - even with zero wind.

Have a brand new X52 HOTAS. But I am unable to control this baby.

 

 

Am I missing something or am I just a clutz ? :cry:

 

 

Thanks folks

[jojo]

Once I get below 30 knots I very often get into swaying (left and right) that gets worse and worse. I am unable to control my way out of it. The only option is to throttle up for a failed approach and go around for another attempt.

I am amazed when I see people hovering and making small corrections at 0 speed. I have tried my times - even after takeoff I immediately build speed in one direction or another. Yes, I have tried 81,82,83 and 84 degrees but I can never hover - even with zero wind.

Have a brand new X52 HOTAS. But I am unable to control this baby.

 

 

Am I missing something or am I just a clutz ? :cry:

 

 

Thanks folks

 

Just need some training. Try not to increase it by late corrections (usual mistake = PIO).

 

I can do it with X-55 twist rudder, you should be able to handle it eventually too. :thumbup:

 

Try first with wind, it will help you. Then decrease the wind down to 0.

[claw]

Am I missing something or am I just a clutz ? :cry:

 

 

In that case we join each other in clutzhood :)

[BrzI]

 

I can do it with X-55 twist rudder, you should be able to handle it eventually too. :thumbup:

 

 

 

You actually use rudder at slow speeds ?

[Krazee]

I have never achieved a zero knot hover. I would love to know how that is possible. My harrier often jumps from 4 knots forward flight to 4 knots reverse. It's even worse with wind. Wind seems to blow the harrier around like it's nothing but a paper tissue plane.

Yes rudder pedals control the little air jets that allow the aircraft to rotate on a vertical axis at hover speeds.

[ricktoberfest]

I find if you make constant very small corrections then it helps you keep ahead of the airplane. Don’t wait for that movement to become large or you end up over correcting. It’s still very hard to be stable though. It’s like driving a car straight. Usually your hands are constantly correcting you just don’t realize it

 

 

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[jojo]

You actually use rudder at slow speeds ?

 

Yes I do, slightly. It would be better with rudder pedals rather than Joystick twist, but for the time being I can handle it.

 

Even 0 speed hover, it’s a matter of training. :thumbup:

[Vannipo]

It would be easier in RL...

[Martini]

When making corrections try making them in 1 axis at a time. I don't have the reference on hand, but I know if you make big, multi-axis inputs you will exceed the available bleed air and lose control/the plane will not respond in a way that matches your inputs. Small inputs, leave the nozzle angle alone once it's in hover range (don't go 80>84>82 to get that last -4 or +4 kts, trim it out and use gentle pitch). That works for me without any issues.

[ricktoberfest]

Yes I do, slightly. It would be better with rudder pedals rather than Joystick twist, but for the time being I can handle it.

 

 

 

Even 0 speed hover, it’s a matter of training. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Actually having switched from twist to rudders a few months back, it was actually much easier hovering with the twist. I do really enjoy the realism of the pedals though.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DmitriKozlowsky]

You just have to practice. Point nose into the wind, using the slip indicator 'the weather vane', and work gently not only stick, but rudder, throttle and nozzle angle. 82 degrees is 'magic' angle used fro hovering. Watch gross weight. Harrier hovers best with fuel at around 1200 or less, and stores expended.

[L.Epic]

For the side to side oscillations I find they are easiest to remove with slight banks in the opposite direction + some rudder action . The trick is to know when to stop banking/twisting rudder not to overcompensate . As a side note AoA is a lot more important than you might think

[Fluffy]

Sounds like you are over-correcting. I use sharp input in opposite direction to mitigate severe oscillations. From there - gentle incremental input stopping 30-20% short of level flight. That usually does the trick, combined with some rudder input. It's all about muscle memory - once you get it, you "getit".

[JumpinK]

Hovering the harrier in 2D/TrackIR can be very difficult, because you just can't "feel" the movement and therefore being a little late on the controls can happen very easily which then often leads into PIO.:joystick:

 

Hovering in VR (OculusRift in my case) is MUCH EASIER because you really can feel where your harrier wants to go and you are able to counter any unwanted movements much earlier than in 2D.

 

(Just my opinion. And i also recommend VR to anyone who can afford it somehow, because it's awesome!:D)

[Eldur]

It would be easier in RL...

 

Cos IRL you'll have a butt meter as well as an orderly working AFC. As to comply to 1.16, I won't post NATOPS excerpts anymore, but it's in there that the stick should still have some fine input authority with the AFC on and that's how to control a hover in the real deal. So anyone here who excels at it without AFC is a true master with literally ages of training

[Shrike88]

It would be easier in RL...

 

Not to sure. Seeming how I have 0 actual time in type. Good buddy VMFA-211 compared it to balancing a marble on the head of a needle. So who knows

[defeatist99]

I have never achieved a zero knot hover. I would love to know how that is possible. My harrier often jumps from 4 knots forward flight to 4 knots reverse. It's even worse with wind. Wind seems to blow the harrier around like it's nothing but a paper tissue plane.

Yes rudder pedals control the little air jets that allow the aircraft to rotate on a vertical axis at hover speeds.

 

 

It's possible. But you are usually making corrections of some sort so you will likely be at least at 1-2kts GS in the hover.

[NeilWillis]

It's simply pilot-induced oscillation. You are over controlling, which leads to needing a correction in the opposite direction. Once you start, it is very hard to stop. The key is to make very small corrections, make them early, and watch the results before making further inputs.

 

 

It's really just down to practice. Fly very low, and you can simply plant the aircraft onto the deck before the situation becomes uncontrollable, then collect yourself and try again.

 

 

Hovering a Harrier is not easy. It kills a lot of professional pilots, so you will naturally struggle at first too.

[whiteladder]

As some people have pointed out is worth noting that in addition to using small inputs you have to fly an accurate approach for a hover landing, specifically height and and AoA.

 

 

I suspect if you watch when you start to get the high oscillation they are starting when you get below 60 knots and your rate of descent is high.

 

 

I know I was struggling with getting in down to a specific landing point without mega wobbles, but I was coming in way too high (1500 feet) and using the flight path marker like I would on a conventional approach. This was leading to a rate of descent that guaranteed wobbles.

Edited October 4, 2018 by whiteladder