Will navigation be painful?

[ebabil]

Since the hornet, harrier and warthog have moving map, they don't have a chance to get lost over the battle field. What is the situation with tomcat? is it painful to find your location with the equipments you have during the fight or normal flight?

[Deano87]

Only as painful as say the M2000...

 

I believe the Tomcat’s INS can have waypoints etc and should be accurate enough to get you to a target and then back to the boat. You also have TACAN etc.

[Destroyer37]

“Give me a map, and a stopwatch and I’ll fly you through the alps in a plane with no windows!”

 

I think it will be fine. You may even find that you have better SA since you don’t have a moving map to rely on...

[Deano87]

“Give me a map, and a stopwatch and I’ll fly you through the alps in a plane with no windows!”

 

Only if there’s no wind :thumbup: but nice Red October quote.:D

[BuzzU]

I think the RIO takes care of navigation. Yes-No?

[Destroyer37]

Only if there’s no wind :thumbup: but nice Red October quote.:D

 

I was feeling inspired for my next mission.

[ebabil]

Only as painful as say the M2000...

 

I believe the Tomcat’s INS can have waypoints etc and should be accurate enough to get you to a target and then back to the boat. You also have TACAN etc.

 

 

how is it done with mirage?

[Lucas_From_Hell]

how is it done with mirage?

 

 

The Mirage 2000 uses an inertial navigation system (constant position tracking in latitude/longitude), TACAN (radial beacon with distance measuring to station) and VOR/ILS (radial beacon with instrument landing system in some cases). The F-14 has the same minus the VOR, and it has an instrument landing system exclusive to carrier landings.

 

 

The INS is very easy to use so long as you know what you are doing - it doesn't give you the moving map, but it does constantly tell you where you are. Its best use is when following a proper route where you know what does each waypoint mean in the map/situation. You can use it as a poor man's moving map by checking the bearing/distance from currently selected waypoint, like a TACAN of sorts.

[Nero.ger]

so, in short, it functions like the HSI in most planes? F15c for example

[Destroyer37]

The HSI can NAV to a waypoint or fix in the INS. The two are not directly connected but they work together.

[DefaultFace]

F10, no ins needed, no problem. I just don't understand why they don't use it in real life :music_whistling:

[Chuck_Henry]

Air navigation can be as painful as you make it.

 

There are many more ways to navigate that don't involve a moving map on an electronic display in the cockpit. That in itself is an extremely new feature for aircraft in general, and there is a real danger of getting sucked into it as a crutch.

 

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-767.pdf

 

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-1208.pdf

 

I recommend skimming at least that first document, which is the publication used for Primary flight training in the US Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard to teach visual navigation. It's a very straightforward procedure called clock-chart-ground. You have waypoints that start at your takeoff airfield, go in a straight lines (magnetic heading) for measured distances, with times it will take you to fly those legs based on your groundspeed. You start a clock on takeoff and reset it after reaching each subsequent checkpoint. As you hit intervals of 2 minutes, check the clock, check your chart for where your aircraft should be after each 2 minutes, and do your best to find an identifiable terrain feature (manmade or natural) corresponding to the chart.

 

tl;dr Navigation is far from rocket science given one has access to a map (F10), a method of keeping time, a known and constant groundspeed, terrain association, and good basic airwork (particularly with heading and speed control).

Edited October 29, 2018 by Chuck_Henry

[Gunslinger22]

I do find it funny how spoiled we’ve become in DCS with moving maps and advanced navigational systems that the A-10, AV-8B and F/A-18 have! Like most things in the -A/B I’m really looking forward to mastering the challenges of less advanced Nav gear and all the -70’s technology the F-14 has in it!

[WarHawk72]

I do find it funny how spoiled we’ve become in DCS with moving maps and advanced navigational systems that the A-10, AV-8B and F/A-18 have! Like most things in the -A/B I’m really looking forward to mastering the challenges of less advanced Nav gear and all the -70’s technology the F-14 has in it!

 

I agree with you and i'm also looking forward to learning the "retro" style of navigation the F-14 uses. I've decided to shelf DCS for a couple of months while i wait for the F-14's release and Heatblur's videos, when they start posting them, to make sure the experience is nice and fresh.

 

Can not wait....:joystick:

[VampireNZ]

I am interested in what level of functionality the CDNU will have?

Will you have to swap to the RIO pit to use it or will there be a pop-up capability of the controller when sitting up front?

 

I am thinking this will mean navigation in the Tomcat will consist of "Jester" just following a flight plan decided during pre-flight (Pilot selects CRUISE Mode and appropriate STEER CMD option) and not much else?

I guess the fact the pilot can't see or interact with the nav system during flight makes it quite a bit different (simplified by necessity?) from navigating with the Mirage for example.

[QuiGon]

Since the hornet, harrier and warthog have moving map, they don't have a chance to get lost over the battle field. What is the situation with tomcat? is it painful to find your location with the equipments you have during the fight or normal flight?

The Tomat has an inertial navigation system (INS) that works with coordinates just like a GPS system. The INS needs to be calibrated properly on startup though. It also lacks the precision of GPS though and tends to drift over time which needs to be corrected by doing so called Nav Fixes. I would recommend to read Heatblurs dev update on navigation, as it's all explained very well there: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=206097

 

You already have this kind of navigation system in DCS with the Mirage 2000 and the Viggen. All other aircraft in DCS have either GPS/GLONASS assisted navigation systems or have to rely on radio navigation (TACAN, VOR, RSBN, ...). And at the very least there is always the map and compass.

Edited October 30, 2018 by QuiGon

[Bad Idea Hat]

Having started out learned how to fly ADF and VOR in Flight Simulator 5.1, everything else is an improvement.

 

 

If anyone is freaked out about this, go fly ADF in FSX/P3D/XP11.

[DefaultFace]

The 12 minute INS align onboard ships will be a pain to get used to after flying the more modern aircraft I think. I could see myself skipping it and just doing eyeball navigation if it werent needed for the datalink.

[tusler]

Just tell your wingman to go fight and then follow him. LoL

[QuiGon]

As the pilot you don't really have to worry about navigation anyways as the RIO takes care of that.

[Eldur]

I do find it funny how spoiled we’ve become in DCS with moving maps and advanced navigational systems that the A-10, AV-8B and F/A-18 have!

 

I never really used them actually as opposed to the ABRIS in the shark. I rather tend to do the nav visually plus TACAN/RSBN, waypoints/INS and sometimes F10 as well. The latter, of course, depending on settings, can spoil a lot though. Especially in the Hornet, when I'm just too lazy to get coords and punch them in, I find myself taking measures of TACAN stations with radial, range and heading to the next one, writing those down and flying just by that.

[Xenovia]

I do find it funny how spoiled we’ve become in DCS with moving maps and advanced navigational systems that the A-10, AV-8B and F/A-18 have! Like most things in the -A/B I’m really looking forward to mastering the challenges of less advanced Nav gear and all the -70’s technology the F-14 has in it!

 

I've almost never used the moving map feature in modules like the Hornet, I've only ever used the F10 map, its just more convenient.

[BuzzU]

Anyone trying to be realistic will never use the F10 map. Not everybody cares and they can use whatever they want.

 

Make sure what you're trying to accomplish. Real or use anything?

[QuiGon]

Anyone trying to be realistic will never use the F10 map.

At least not with unit icons activated. If all the icons are disabled (including the ownship icon), then it is just a normal map like you would have on paper (except that you can zoom in and out).

[BuzzU]

True, but those who use it don't use it that way.

 

The same could be said of the kneeboard if you mark your location.