How to change LGB CODE from ownship

[EcceHomo]

I watched the new f-18c release LGB video, which showed the operation of changing the laser CODE. However, in the TAC-300 of 2001, GBU-12 needed to set the PRF on the bomb.

In LWS all LGBs set CODE on the ground, but GBU-24G/B has MIL-STD-1760. So how does LGB without data bus change CODE?

Edited December 15, 2018 by EcceHomo

[DeathAngel1]

I think that is not implemented yet. It will be on next OB update - 19 december.

[AvroLanc]

I watched the new f-18c release LGB video, which showed the operation of changing the laser CODE. However, in the TAC-300 of 2001, GBU-12 needed to set the PRF on the bomb.

In LWS all LGBs set CODE on the ground, but GBU-24G/B has MIDS-1760. So how does LGB without data bus change CODE?

 

 

I've been wondering this as well. I'm curious to know how ED have modelled this. As you say, the Paveway II series laser codes can't be changed in flight by the pilot.

 

The code you set on the ground, on the exterior of the weapon itself, is the code you get to play with...

 

So what exactly is the function of the CODE UFC input? Is this even a RL feature of the stores DDI page? If so, it might just be an input to remind / reference for the pilot in flight, having no effect on actual guidance at all.....?

 

It would be more authentic for ED to allow LGB code settings in the Mission Editor, rather like the F-5.

[Speedywrx]

GBU-12 are hard-coded on the bomb body itself (valid codes from 1511 to 1788) I can't speak specifically to the F-18, but the UFC input is to match your onboard weapons computer to what's coded on the bomb.

 

The best implementation as AvroLanc mentioned, would be to assign a code via mission editor or armament loading screen once in the cockpit and on the ground and also have an option with the JTAC to be able to pass your code to him.

 

Otherwise, it's not much fun flying around with everyone else on 1688 on the same target area, which is why, I'm assuming, they let you change the code in-flight. It's the same with the A-10C.

 

Edit: A picture's worth 1000 words.

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Speedywrx

[EcceHomo]

I've been wondering this as well. I'm curious to know how ED have modelled this. As you say, the Paveway II series laser codes can't be changed in flight by the pilot.

 

The code you set on the ground, on the exterior of the weapon itself, is the code you get to play with...

 

So what exactly is the function of the CODE UFC input? Is this even a RL feature of the stores DDI page? If so, it might just be an input to remind / reference for the pilot in flight, having no effect on actual guidance at all.....?

 

It would be more authentic for ED to allow LGB code settings in the Mission Editor, rather like the F-5.

 

GBU-12 are hard-coded on the bomb body itself (valid codes from 1511 to 1788) I can't speak specifically to the F-18, but the UFC input is to match your onboard weapons computer to what's coded on the bomb.

 

The best implementation as AvroLanc mentioned, would be to assign a code via mission editor or armament loading screen once in the cockpit and on the ground and also have an option with the JTAC to be able to pass your code to him.

 

Otherwise, it's not much fun flying around with everyone else on 1688 on the same target area, which is why, I'm assuming, they let you change the code in-flight. It's the same with the A-10C.

 

Edit: A picture's worth 1000 words.

 

 

In addition to the data bus and ground settings, I have not seen any other way to change the laser PRF.

[robgraham]

part of it is you have to remember we are in a computer.. some times things have to be slightly 'cheated' to allow for that fact and that you can't sit there and go to the JTAC ok, I need a spot code 1766 for the first 2 runs but when my buddy comes in he needs 1688.. Instead the JTAC gives us the code and we 'pretend' that we are just making certain that we've checked our bombs and the arming computer are all set up right as per our mission planed code. (which we presume is the one the JTAC passes us)

 

Otherwise Multiplayer etc would be a nightmare to say the least.

[kaoqumba]

Maybe for the sake of gameplay, we sacrificed part of the truth? Like the current AGM65 missile, there is still no time limit, no dust shield, and no simulation that high G maneuver can damage the pylon, leading to the failure to launch the missile. But the F/A18C is still in the process of perfection, which may change in the future. Teams strive for truth

[backspace340]

I heard in real life that the laser codes are normally set to be unique per aircraft for that day / AO - so rather than the JTAC telling you what code to use, you'd tell him what code you're using and he'd change his settings. It means it's a lot easier then to manage multiple targets and multiple aircraft. Obviously that isn't the way it works ingame and you can't tell the JTAC to change his code during the mission, so what we've got is a fairly sensible fudge to allow us to operate in the same way, especially when there's different JTACs running on different codes.

 

If they do change it, the worst thing they could do is make it a mission editor setting - that would be incompatible with how many multiplayer servers with multiple JTACs work. We need to be able to change it ingame either via the knee board (like the F5 and Mirage) or loadout editor.

[EcceHomo]

I heard in real life that the laser codes are normally set to be unique per aircraft for that day / AO - so rather than the JTAC telling you what code to use, you'd tell him what code you're using and he'd change his settings. It means it's a lot easier then to manage multiple targets and multiple aircraft. Obviously that isn't the way it works ingame and you can't tell the JTAC to change his code during the mission, so what we've got is a fairly sensible fudge to allow us to operate in the same way, especially when there's different JTACs running on different codes.

 

If they do change it, the worst thing they could do is make it a mission editor setting - that would be incompatible with how many multiplayer servers with multiple JTACs work. We need to be able to change it ingame either via the knee board (like the F5 and Mirage) or loadout editor.

 

Maybe for the sake of gameplay, we sacrificed part of the truth? Like the current AGM65 missile, there is still no time limit, no dust shield, and no simulation that high G maneuver can damage the pylon, leading to the failure to launch the missile. But the F/A18C is still in the process of perfection, which may change in the future. Teams strive for truth

 

part of it is you have to remember we are in a computer.. some times things have to be slightly 'cheated' to allow for that fact and that you can't sit there and go to the JTAC ok, I need a spot code 1766 for the first 2 runs but when my buddy comes in he needs 1688.. Instead the JTAC gives us the code and we 'pretend' that we are just making certain that we've checked our bombs and the arming computer are all set up right as per our mission planed code. (which we presume is the one the JTAC passes us)

 

Otherwise Multiplayer etc would be a nightmare to say the least.

The LBG without the data bus can only rely on the ground to set the laser code, and the VER appearing in the video may be the BRU-33 without the data bus, so I have doubts. If it is a BRU-55, then everything can be explained, because the BRU-55 exists in MIL-STD-1760.

Although the old LGB still has no data interface, this is a problem.

[Rainmaker]

You guys are looking way too far beyond where you need to be. You guys have already covered it. It's a "sim" limitation, nothing more. Any of your standard PWII and PWIII (10/12/16/24/28/etc) munitions are going to be set on the seeker head body itself. Takes a flathead screwdriver to do, very basic.

 

Your updated munitions, like the 31/38 for example, are of course tied to the MUX and can be changed on the fly.

[Frederf]

If the video is representative of the real airplane then this code entry is not setting the bomb but instead is informing the airplane what the bomb is. If you load a bomb with code X and tell it code Y then you better designate code X because that's what it's going to seek.

 

How it works in DCS? Who knows but easy enough to test. If A-10C is any indication then this informative data entry is the fantasy method for altering the actual code of the weapon in real time.

[BarTzi]

If the video is representative of the real airplane

 

It isn't. You can't do that in the real plane. The code is set by the ground crew.

[QuiGon]

It isn't. You can't do that in the real plane. The code is set by the ground crew.

Then why can we do that in DCS?

[drPhibes]

Then why can we do that in DCS?

 

 

Because ED decided to sacrifice absolute accuracy over increased practicality for players. It's the same in the two other TPOD-equipped aircraft, and IMHO it makes a lot of sense.

[Frederf]

It isn't. You can't do that in the real plane. The code is set by the ground crew.

I'm not saying that you're setting the code. I'm saying if the video shows how the airplane actually is. You may indeed type in a code exactly like the video and that would be consistent. If it does the same thing is a different matter.

[BarTzi]

I'm not saying that you're setting the code. I'm saying if the video shows how the airplane actually is. You may indeed type in a code exactly like the video and that would be consistent. If it does the same thing is a different matter.

 

I'm sorry but I don't understand you. The video shows a system that doesn't exist in the real plane. You only enter the code in the TGP's settings, and not in the stores page, and that is for your laser and not the bomb's guidance kit.

 

You drop this bomb just like any other dumb bomb and the plane doesn't know and doesn't care what code are you currently going to use to lase.

Edited December 19, 2018 by BarTzi

[Rainmaker]

SA purposes for the stores would be the only real reason. It’s pretty much either you do it the way it is or have something in the ME to do so, otherwise you run into potential conflict if multiple people are lasing the same generic code during coordinated strikes in the same area.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Rainmaker

[Frederf]

I'm sorry but I don't understand you. The video shows a system that doesn't exist in the real plane. You only enter the code in the TGP's settings, and not in the stores page, and that is for your laser and not the bomb's guidance kit.

 

You drop this bomb just like any other dumb bomb and the plane doesn't know and doesn't care what code are you currently going to use to lase.

Telling PRF code to airplane, even if just informative, has a purpose. For example in A-10C the PRF code information will warn you if TGP and bomb code mismatch for self lase. If airplane doesn't know the code then it can't warn you.

 

So it is perfectly reasonable that there is a data input in F/A-18C for PRF code in reality.

[Robin_Hood]

We already have the Belsimtek F-5E and Razbam Mirage 2000C that have working ground-only LGB code-changing. To me this is a clear step backwards on the F/A-18C, and I am disappointed that ED did not take notes from what other developpers are doing (I really hoped they would not to the same compromise as with the A-10C - what was appropriate and understandable at the time is not necessarily now).

What they should do instead, is the ability to have the IA JTAC change their code according to whaterer the aircraft checking-in has set.

[Flagrum]

We already have the Belsimtek F-5E and Razbam Mirage 2000C that have working ground-only LGB code-changing. To me this is a clear step backwards on the F/A-18C, and I am disappointed that ED did not take notes from what other developpers are doing (I really hoped they would not to the same compromise as with the A-10C - what was appropriate and understandable at the time is not necessarily now).

What they should do instead, is the ability to have the IA JTAC change their code according to whaterer the aircraft checking-in has set.

 

If you have to enter the code anyways, to match the actual setting of the weapon, why not use that for reducing unnecessary redundance?

 

You are suggesting that the PRF is set in the mission editor (ideally for every single LGB separately!) and then just to have it entered again in the cockpit. What does that add in terms of realism, playability or immersion?

 

The only potential downside to the "cockpit setting sets physical LGB setting"-approach, as it is already used in the A-10C, is that it adds a level of flexibility that does not exist in RL. But there is a easy and elegant solution for that: don't exploit it.

[Robin_Hood]

Of course I won't use it. But to me it is not simply a "potential downside": the added flexibility is an unrealistic feature that I find undesirable, so that answers your question of "what does that add in terms of realism etc...". And for immersion, yes, having an aircraft changing a GBU code in-flight when it shouldn't can break immersion for some people (even if I don't use it, as a wingman or JTAC this would bother me).

 

I am just disappointed that although two modules have "corrected" the unrealistic feature of the A-10C, other modules do not follow suit, which I (emphasis on I) see as a step backwards (for the record, I think the ideal way would be to select the code in the loadout menu). And before you mention that the F-5E and Mirage 2000C do not have a TGP, sure, but the kneeboard trick is specifically restricted to weight-on-wheels on both modules, so this indicate a clear intent of realistic limitations.

[FalcoGer]

things have to be slightly 'cheated' to allow for that fact and that you can't sit there and go to the JTAC ok, I need a spot code 1766 for the first 2 runs but when my buddy comes in he needs 1688.

 

 

Perhaps instead of cheating because we can't tell the JTAC which laser code we need, you should consider implementing telling the JTAC that we need a specific code instead.

 

 

SA purposes for the stores would be the only real reason. It’s pretty much either you do it the way it is or have something in the ME to do so, otherwise you run into potential conflict if multiple people are lasing the same generic code during coordinated strikes in the same area.

 

 

Then people should behave properly and NOT lase with the same code in the same area and actually inform each other on who's lasing what and when and with what code. Because that's what the real pilots do.

 

 

But there is a easy and elegant solution for that: don't exploit it.

 

 

That's not the point. This is a SIMULATOR. Just don't do it really has no point here. Say there is an UFO with a laser gun that kills everything. Just don't use it. Even though a bit exagerated it's the same logic, doesn't work like this. It's supposed to reflect the real thing.

Edited December 23, 2018 by FalcoGer