AAR Tips and Tricks

[pistolpete01]

Hey guys,

 

So, I know that this will probably be frowned upon but I've found an easy way to stay stable during AAR.

 

As I get in close, I engage the autopilot and when I give it small stick movements, the plane will respond but very minutely. Dunno, just an easy work around and I recommend it to those having trouble with AAR. I've been able to top off my jet everytime.

[Eaglewings]

Autopilot is very easy to get aerial refueling. It has been working for me for a while now. The only setback is that I cannot stay connected with autopilot when tanker enters a turn.

Yeah a very acceptable cheat.

 

I am still at a loss while get terrible side to side movements without autopilot when close to the basket.

[Strikeeagle345]

Autopilot is very easy to get aerial refueling. It has been working for me for a while now. The only setback is that I cannot stay connected with autopilot when tanker enters a turn.

Yeah a very acceptable cheat.

 

I am still at a loss while get terrible side to side movements without autopilot when close to the basket.

 

your wings aren't level, is all. Need to level out.

[pimp]

You can get those same small stick movements if you tune your pitch/roll axis. Create a curve that gives you a smoother movement. I have an old Cougar and I need to create curves and deadzones. It helped me tremendously when I was learning AAR.

[TheGuardian]

yea, I started using this to get used to throttle control and being the the proper position. Only problem is sometimes the tanker will turn during the orbit, this will cause your probe to raise or lower just enough that you will have to turn the BALT off. It's great for getting the hang of it though.

[pimp]

I've noticed that there are those that struggle with the stick movements, which is why they would use the AP, and there are those that struggle with throttle control which is why they would use the ATC. All AAR is, is flying in formation. A good practice would be just flying at the 8 o'clock position of the tanker for a little while to determine what the correct airspeed & altitude the tanker is flying. Once those two most important components are known, it makes it easier to know what corrections you need to make in order to connect successfully and stay connected.

[Overparduffer]

Yeah, I've still got to take the time to learn this skill. I think I've made 3 failed attempts each one significantly better than the last but still a ways off. Was thinking about seeing if I could do something similar using the trim, but this sounds way better. I'll have to try it. Thanks

[Eaglewings]

I am using a deadline of +1 and a curvature of 15 points. Thrustmaster warthog flight stick.

I have attached a track file of AAR refuel which shows my challenge without autopilot engaged.

The aircraft just sways left to right.

I will be glad and grateful if it can be examined closely and solution recommended.

Thanks fellows.

Difficulty in AAR.trk

[KittyVCAW-1]

Sounds like you got a bad case of PIO...pilot induced ocillation. I'm not experienced enough to tell you how to stop it. Someone told me not to look at the basket but to focus on the fuel pod under the wing. It helped me a little but i'm still not very good at AAR yet.

[Revs]

I come in fast enough to a point that I will be able to slow down if I catch the basket. If I miss it, I'll back up to almost pre contact then try again. if I somehow slowed down with the basket just in front of me but not lined up, i'll back up again, trying to line up when the basket is in front of you is hard because a change in throttle also affects the oscillation. also I make sure I'm as trimmed as passible on approach so any joystick input would require the same pressure. I don't use autopilot cause that it'll change the amount of input compare to doing slow flight.

 

edit: works also for AV8b

[Eaglewings]

Sounds like you got a bad case of PIO...pilot induced ocillation. I'm not experienced enough to tell you how to stop it. Someone told me not to look at the basket but to focus on the fuel pod under the wing. It helped me a little but i'm still not very good at AAR yet.

Thanks for your insight

I have tried to putting the focus on the pod but sway left and right (PIO) will not allow me to stay lined up.

Once I engage the autopilot at that stage, it becomes so stable and easy.

I will keep at anyways. It took my so much time and efforts to get it right with autopilot.

[GGTharos]

Turn on your control panel (ctrl-enter I think?) and record VIDEO (not track) of your flight to review. Make it short to make your life easy, ie, set up a refueling mission where you're already 0.5nm behind the tanker.

 

Your tanker should be at 275KIAS if possible. Are you stepping on your rudders etc? In any case, the control view will tell you. Just don't stare at it during AAR - use it for review after your flight.

[Akula]

yea, I started using this to get used to throttle control and being the the proper position. Only problem is sometimes the tanker will turn during the orbit, this will cause your probe to raise or lower just enough that you will have to turn the BALT off. It's great for getting the hang of it though.

 

 

Change the mission to make the tanker fly in a straight line forever.... You're practicing so why make it harder than it needs to be. Once you nail AAR in a straight line, practice in turns.

[Whiskey11]

Hey guys,

 

So, I know that this will probably be frowned upon but I've found an easy way to stay stable during AAR.

 

As I get in close, I engage the autopilot and when I give it small stick movements, the plane will respond but very minutely. Dunno, just an easy work around and I recommend it to those having trouble with AAR. I've been able to top off my jet everytime.

 

It's a pretty good "cheat". I actually released a video yesterday talking about this very thing on my YT channel (I'm still new to DCS YouTubing so go gently! :P):

 

 

Might not be the "correct" way, but it is A way to do it and in the grand scheme of things, DCS is what you make it. If you are like me and need to break things down into components to better understand them, using the AA to num up the controls is an exceptionally handy tool that allows you to better focus on throttle manipulation.

[razorseal]

AAR is still my weakest point in DCS. Pretty close to proper carrier procedures. UGHHHH lmao

[Strikeeagle345]

Using Autopilot for AAR / Formation is a bad habit and should be broken asap...

[Doum76]

Using Autopilot for AAR / Formation is a bad habit and should be broken asap...

 

 

 

 

We all know this, thus the reason why CHEAT in the thread subjet he said i'm pretty sure he knows it ain't the right way. But i gave up on replying this on thread people using auto-pilot etc, as i came to come to the fact that if it allows someone to enjoy refurling while he he struggles without it and might not wanna train that much, i guess he deserve to enjoy the module he paid for, cheating or nt, bad habit or not.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Doum76

[KittyVCAW-1]

im not asking for a cheat, I want to do this for real so bad. My probe just floats through the basket after connecting. Sometimes it doesnt connect at all just goes straight through the basket. I've connected several times for a good 10-12 seconds and then the basket just floats away. It's pretty cool when it comes inside my cockpit when i miss too LMFAO!!!

Edited February 20, 2019 by Jonnie2Bad

[Doum76]

im not asking for a cheat, I want to do this for real so bad. My probe just floats through the basket after connecting. Sometimes it doesnt connect at all just goes straight through the basket. I've connected several times for a good 10-12 seconds and then the basket just floats away. LMFAO!!!

 

 

 

 

You should have the fuel check for drugs, might be a basket on steroids :P

[Whiskey11]

Using Autopilot for AAR / Formation is a bad habit and should be broken asap...

 

I don't disagree, but you have to remember this is a game at its core and while you enjoy hyper realism, others may not care to do it by the book and just want to enjoy the game. On busy servers like Through the Inferno, I'd prefer people with little experience tank with the AP on if it gets them done tanking quicker so the line of people waiting can enjoy their game too.

 

As I pointed out above, it's also fantastic at isolating the multitasking required to tank safely and can make the learning experience faster and less stressful. It helped my throttle work ten fold and now I'm focusing on doing it without AP on because I feel more confident enough in my throttle management to focus on joy stick work.

[Holden McGroyne]

im not asking for a cheat, I want to do this for real so bad. My probe just floats through the basket after connecting. Sometimes it doesnt connect at all just goes straight through the basket. I've connected several times for a good 10-12 seconds and then the basket just floats away. It's pretty cool when it comes inside my cockpit when i miss too LMFAO!!!

 

 

 

You have to remember that getting the probe in the basket is just the start of the procedure. If you only lightly nudge the basket and get the contact message, any decrease in speed from you is going to see you fall out. You have to get contact and then push forward a few yards to ensure there is some room for change in length of the hose before you fall out. Also, if you are too close to the tail plane of the tanker and too high in relation to the fuel pod, thus in danger of clattering the underside of the tanker tail, the hose will disconnect. It's just practice and getting a formation picture on the tanker. Keep at it, it gets easier with time.

[Magnate]

Tips for first attempts at aerial refuelling

 

For people who are in the early stages of learning to do aerial refueling in the F/A-18C one of my first tips would be not to use the mission in Instant Action, but to either download one created by the community or make your own.

 

For a start, the Instant Action mission features the S-3B tanker. This is more challenging to refuel from than the KC130 - far less forgiving in terms of maintaining position once you're

connected. I've wondered whether the S-3B has a shorter hose, but not got around to checking this.

 

Secondly, in the Instant Action mission you're flying a clean Hornet - no tanks or munitions. My advice - increase the weight of the aircraft so as to make it less responsive to pitch

inputs - give it a bit more inertia so that it will be less inclined to bounce around.

 

One of the most challenging things about learning is that your airspeed for a given throttle position never seems to remain stable for more than a few seconds - you're constantly

either accelerating or decelerating. The result is that you'll either find yourself closing too fast with the tanker or slowing down just as you thought you were about to make contact

with the basket. Frustrating!

 

Maybe it's just my hearing, but I can't detect any change in engine sounds as I make minor throttle adjustments. I don't know whether this mirrors what happens in real life, but I found this frustrating when I was learning.

 

So, I was constantly having to divide my attention between my approach to the basket and monitoring my speed as shown in the HUD. This makes for an increased workload.

 

One recommendation I'd make is that if you miss the basket while your airspeed is in the accelerating phase, don't immediately throttle back/airbrake to fall back for another attempt, but continue as if you had successfully connected, and then try to stablilise your position behind the tanker. This will involve throttling back so as not to overshoot. You're going to need to learn this skill to stay connected, so you might as well treat missed approaches as an opportunity to practice this.

 

Don't try to inch up to the basket foot by foot - your lack of binocular vision as the basket is in the last few feet of your approach makes it impossible to judge distance. You''ll have the frustrating experience of being sure that you're about to make contact and then the basket just passes magically through the side of your probe. Possibly in VR this isn't an issue?

 

So, my advice: go for a steady confident approach and learn how to manage the higher rate of closure which this entails.

 

Don't ever dart at the basket - if you do connect your sideways/upwards/downwards acceleration will be hard to manage and you'll end up being even more frustrated than if you just missed the basket. Plus, you're possibly going to collide with the tanker.

 

Another thing - which I've learned through painful experience - is to force yourself to be patient. If you miss an approach, fall back a decent distance, stabilise and then make another

deliberate attempt. Trying a second rushed attempt without stabilising will only add to your frustration. Aim to have the line of the hose vertical in the gap in your pitch ladder

before you start each approach.

 

When it comes to joystick input - less is more. Try to position yourself in what you judge to be the right place for your approach and then see what happens - better to learn to recognise a picture of what a successful approach looks like, than to be constantly making adjustments. With experience I can now see - very early in an approach - that I've got a good line and I then

just leave the stick alone, despite what might appear to be an arcing path between the probe and the basket.

 

I won't give advice on what you should be lining up with what - everyone will use different features of their aircraft/HUD and different features of the tanker - use whatever works

for you. (Actually, for what it's worth, I put the caret on the heading tape at the 8 o'clock position on the refuelling pod as my starting point.)

 

Watch the tracks of your missions in external view - you may find that you're actually doing better than the view from the cockpit suggests. This way you can get a more 3-dimensional

view of how you're doing - you may be closer to success than you think!

 

The first time you stay connected for 30 seconds is a milestone, and then, finally, those magic words "Transfer complete" are a reward for all the effort you've put into learning this challenging task.

[backspace340]

Most people try AAR before they've got the core pre-requisite skill learned - that skill is formation flying. Stop trying to stab the basket and just practice flying formation with the tanker - stay as close as you can and once you've got good at that, practice dropping back and creeping back forward, then shift left/right and then even see if you can get the tanker to make a few turns and stick with it. Once you're at the point where you can stick to the tanker like glue for 30-60 minutes, that's the time to give AAR a go - it'll be a hundred times easier than doing it without practising formation flying.

[KittyVCAW-1]

Just curious to go from 2-3000 lbs to full takes approx how long? Yesterday I hit the basket 4 times and the guy in the tanker says "transfer complete.....disconnecting" immediately after i connect. It really felt like a bug but I haven't heard anyone else having the same experience. I saved the track if anyone is interested.

[Doum76]

Just curious to go from 2-3000 lbs to full takes approx how long? Yesterday I hit the basket 4 times and the guy in the tanker says "transfer complete.....disconnecting" immediately after i connect. It really felt like a bug but I haven't heard anyone else having the same experience. I saved the track if anyone is interested.

 

 

I can't remember how long, i'Ve never paid attention but i went to watch a viddeo i've made a while ago, connecting at 5 400 ish to 8 400 ish was about 58 seconds, so, let's round it to about a 1 minute for 3 000 lbs.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Doum76